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[Giggles_Manically]

Bioware deserves squat.

Mass Effect 3 is a lazy, poorly done, and pathetic action game that is somewhat ashamed of itself for having RPG elements.

At one time I defended Bioware since they made so many great games. Post EA buyout its all been downhill.

Bethesda has earned the right to ask for 20 dollars from me since they always maintained an excellent standard. Arena-Skyrim, and fallout3 have all been epic games as have their DLC/ex pacs.

Sure Skyrim had a standard ending "Beat Big Bad in final zone, happy ending ensues"
But it was 1000 times better then "Meet Deus Bratina, kill whole series, give players middle finger and advertise DLC"

[Gotholhorakh]

Elhanan wrote...

Giggles_Manically wrote...

I just hope the DLC adds to the game unlike Bioware's DLC as of late.

Like I LOVED Warden's keep since it was so integrated into the game...despite being taken out for DLC.
Hopefully Dawnguard comes into the story smoothly.

Personally, I enjoyed the Legacy DLC quite a bit, and have aquired a lot of other DA and ME adds, too. Why the cheap shot at Bioware is needed here seems rather curious.

It's not a cheap shot if it cost you money to be able to make it. Most shots are free, in fact, so it's a comparitively expensive shot.

Besides which, the topic of discussion is Skyrim, the release of its new DLC and the relative merits of DLC in general re: the price tag, and several people have introduced comparisons with other DLC from other providers - so it's kind of eminently relevant.

Personally, I don't consider most DLC - but in the case of Dawnguard I'll buy it because of how awesome the product has been and how generous and cool the developer has been. There seems to be a real chance of it being ok (which is all I expect from an expansion) and tbh the base game is great enough value that if it sucks it's not a biggie.

It's pretty telling for me, given my attitude to DLC, I wonder if there are other people giving serious consideration to Dawnguard who normally don't buy much DLC at all (or people who wait for the GOTY edition  - yeah you know who you are ).

Modifié par Gotholhorakh, 02 juin 2012 - 09:01 .

[Elhanan]

Giggles_Manically wrote...

Bioware deserves squat.

Mass Effect 3 is a lazy, poorly done, and pathetic action game that is somewhat ashamed of itself for having RPG elements.

At one time I defended Bioware since they made so many great games. Post EA buyout its all been downhill.

Bethesda has earned the right to ask for 20 dollars from me since they always maintained an excellent standard. Arena-Skyrim, and fallout3 have all been epic games as have their DLC/ex pacs.

Sure Skyrim had a standard ending "Beat Big Bad in final zone, happy ending ensues"
But it was 1000 times better then "Meet Deus Bratina, kill whole series, give players middle finger and advertise DLC"

Was not aware that ME3 was DLC; thought it was sold as an actual game. But apples and beets are both red and grow in the soil, don't they?

Plus lots of folks seemingly like the game, though a bunch of whiners dislike the final minutes.

But if one wishes to bash a company on the forums they host, says more about the shallow character of the one tossing the veggies than that of the company.

[Gotholhorakh]

Elhanan wrote...
But if one wishes to bash a company on the forums they host, says more about the shallow character of the one tossing the veggies than that of the company.

I think that's overly strong, and frankly how in the name of all that's holy did you connect a fairly reasonable expression of an opinion with the human being behind it having a "shallow character"?

I believe a WTF is in order.

Modifié par Gotholhorakh, 02 juin 2012 - 09:15 .

[Elhanan]

Gotholhorakh wrote...

It's not a cheap shot if it cost you money to be able to make it. Most shots are free, in fact, so it's a comparitively expensive shot.

Besides which, the topic of discussion is Skyrim, the release of its new DLC and the relative merits of DLC in general re: the price tag, and several people have introduced comparisons with other DLC from other providers - so it's kind of eminently relevant.

Personally, I don't consider most DLC - but in the case of Dawnguard I'll buy it because of how awesome the product has been and how generous and cool the developer has been. There seems to be a real chance of it being ok (which is all I expect from an expansion) and tbh the base game is great enough value that if it sucks it's not a biggie.

It's pretty telling for me, given my attitude to DLC, I wonder if there are other people giving serious consideration to Dawnguard who normally don't buy much DLC at all (or people who wait for the GOTY edition  - yeah you know who you are

I am fine with dicussing the merits of DLC, but am notably content with Bioware content as a rule. While I did not care for the Feast Day addition for DAO, I am pleased with most of the other DA selections (believe I have all but one currently).

Now for the ME series, I did not have as much funding available, so had to pick and choose what would likely be more useful to me. And while I disliked the hovercraft material, most of the other content was both useful and enjoyable for the first two games.

Now Skyrim has been a terrific game, and a great investment. But I still loathe Steam, and want nothing from it; same goes for Origin.

And I am hoping that DG will have an easier install than Skyrim itself, as this was one of the worst launches seen in my experience. This is why I like having the Techies go first, and that month will noit be as bad for me as it might for others.

[Elhanan]

greengoron89 wrote...

Well, you've always been one to pride yourself in being "better" than others here for a variety of relative reasons, so I won't trouble myself to respond in depth to your post other than to say that I give my money to those I feel deserve it, and I voice my opinion in any place that allows it - if you want to use that to springboard yourself into some fictional position of moral superiority, be my guest.

As someone once said, I could agree with you, but then we would both be wrong.....

[Elhanan]

Gotholhorakh wrote...

Elhanan wrote...
But if one wishes to bash a company on the forums they host, says more about the shallow character of the one tossing the veggies than that of the company.

I think that's overly strong, and frankly how in the name of all that's holy did you connect a fairly reasonable expression of an opinion with the human being behind it having a "shallow character"?....

Insulting the host is usually incorrect behaviour, I believe. But in some cases, seeing it posted repeatedly on these forums makes such an observation that much easier.

I enjoy Skyrim and Bioware games; my bad.....

[Gotholhorakh]

Elhanan wrote...

Gotholhorakh wrote...

It's not a cheap shot if it cost you money to be able to make it. Most shots are free, in fact, so it's a comparitively expensive shot.

Besides which, the topic of discussion is Skyrim, the release of its new DLC and the relative merits of DLC in general re: the price tag, and several people have introduced comparisons with other DLC from other providers - so it's kind of eminently relevant.

Personally, I don't consider most DLC - but in the case of Dawnguard I'll buy it because of how awesome the product has been and how generous and cool the developer has been. There seems to be a real chance of it being ok (which is all I expect from an expansion) and tbh the base game is great enough value that if it sucks it's not a biggie.

It's pretty telling for me, given my attitude to DLC, I wonder if there are other people giving serious consideration to Dawnguard who normally don't buy much DLC at all (or people who wait for the GOTY edition  - yeah you know who you are

I am fine with dicussing the merits of DLC, but am notably content with Bioware content as a rule. While I did not care for the Feast Day addition for DAO, I am pleased with most of the other DA selections (believe I have all but one currently).

Now for the ME series, I did not have as much funding available, so had to pick and choose what would likely be more useful to me. And while I disliked the hovercraft material, most of the other content was both useful and enjoyable for the first two games.

Now Skyrim has been a terrific game, and a great investment. But I still loathe Steam, and want nothing from it; same goes for Origin.

And I am hoping that DG will have an easier install than Skyrim itself, as this was one of the worst launches seen in my experience. This is why I like having the Techies go first, and that month will noit be as bad for me as it might for others.

I seem to have been fairly lucky with Steam, as apart from the delays of updating newly installed apps I have a largely hassle-free experience with it.

I freely admit I might have Windows Comfort Syndrome here - where you become so inured to the inconvenient and annoying bits of something they become invisible to you - which in turn leads you to believe it's all a lot more seamless and easy than it actually is.

As for BioWare DLC I haven't if I'm honest bought anything BioWare since DA2, although I'm thinking about a refresh on some older games as boxes are starting to look a bit tatty and stuff.

I think content satisfaction with the base product is pretty key, but I couldn't pretend it was everything since there are games I like where I won't buy the DLC - and I have friends who are the same way. I think that it feels like encouraging a company to fleece you?

Modifié par Gotholhorakh, 02 juin 2012 - 09:32 .

[Elhanan]

Gotholhorakh wrote...

I seem to have been fairly lucky with Steam, as apart from the delays of updating newly installed apps I have a largely hassle-free experience with it.

I freely admit I might have Windows Comfort Syndrome here - where you've become so inured to the inconvenient and annoying bits of something they become invisible to you and you then think it's all a lot more seamless than it really is.

As for BioWare DLC I haven't if I'm honest bought anything BioWare since DA2, although I'm thinking about a refresh on some older games as boxes are starting to look a bit tatty and stuff.

I think content satisfaction with the base product is pretty key, but I couldn't pretend it was everything since there are games I like where I won't buy the DLC - and I have friends who are the same way. I think that it feels like encouraging a company to fleece you?

If the DLC were mandatory or needed to play, I might be more upset with DLC than now. But nothing I have purchased from Bioware has been required, so I am content. And I recommended the Ultimate versions of some games to others; not only for the bargain, but for the quality of the included products.

[Giggles_Manically]

Wow I love watching people come into a forum and say how mighty, amazing, and just damn superior they are to others.

I may be a complainer, but I dont act like I exist above my fellow gamers.
We all have our own POV to express, and more than likely live in nations that let us express them.

ME3 had DAY 1 DLC, that was mostly on the disc even, that is not justifiable.
It was a 10 dollar DLC for non-collector edition gamers and it was at most...1-1 and a half hours of content.

Dont come in here and act like you are above anyone.

[Gotholhorakh]

Elhanan wrote...
If the DLC were mandatory or needed to play, I might be more upset with DLC than now. But nothing I have purchased from Bioware has been required, so I am content. And I recommended the Ultimate versions of some games to others; not only for the bargain, but for the quality of the included products.

I think people being upset about day 1 DLC is understandable whichever angle you come at this from, because day 1 DLC probably feels like it borders on mandatory because it feels like you're being DLC'd for base game content.

Not that I believe this to be the case, surely this perception is created in the thoughtless (at least as far as the customers are concerned) release timing.

I think to be fair, you could be criticized if you did not anticipate ire as an obvious repercussion of that - it's really, really obvious that would irritate some customers, so it kind of looks a bit like a thumbed nose at customer relations.

Again, it's obviously not intended to cause any problems, it's just a little thoughtlessness that amounts to dropping the "customer relations ball".

Elhanan wrote...

Gotholhorakh wrote...
I think that's overly strong, and frankly
how in the name of all that's holy did you connect a fairly reasonable
expression of an opinion with the human being behind it having a
"shallow character"?....

Insulting the host is usually
incorrect behaviour, I believe. But in some cases, seeing it posted
repeatedly on these forums makes such an observation that much easier.

Well set against the context of the conversation, I though it was in all honesty a fair comment to make, so I suspect YMMV there.

I think you might consider that "shallow character" business a bit ad hominem in the cold light of day, too - but far be it from me to reprimand you on this, no amateur moderator I

Modifié par Gotholhorakh, 02 juin 2012 - 10:04 .

[LobselVith8]

Luc0s wrote...

LPPrince wrote...

The stuff we get from Dawnguard will last us as long as the Skyrim main game lasts us, so in the end its worth it.

How do you know? 

I suppose if we join the Vampire Lords and keep the abilities, it will last us for as long as we use them. For vampire protagonists, blocking the sun means an end to the sun weakening them, which would be worth it. I think people are also optimistic because of Bethesda's track record.

[Gotholhorakh]

LobselVith8 wrote...

Luc0s wrote...

LPPrince wrote...

The stuff we get from Dawnguard will last us as long as the Skyrim main game lasts us, so in the end its worth it.

How do you know? 

I suppose if we join the Vampire Lords and keep the abilities, it will last us for as long as we use them. For vampire protagonists, blocking the sun means an end to the sun weakening them, which would be worth it. I think people are also optimistic because of Bethesda's track record.

Yeah, I read it as meaning we would be getting stuff we could use in/throughout the main game and world. TBF lots of people do a vampy playthrough - I know I did on Oblivion and have yet to with Skyrim.

[LobselVith8]

Gotholhorakh wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

I suppose if we join the Vampire Lords and keep the abilities, it will last us for as long as we use them. For vampire protagonists, blocking the sun means an end to the sun weakening them, which would be worth it. I think people are also optimistic because of Bethesda's track record.

Yeah, I read it as meaning we would be getting stuff we could use in/throughout the main game and world. TBF lots of people do a vampy playthrough - I know I did on Oblivion and have yet to with Skyrim.

That was the case with Shivering Isles and KoTN, so it could be true for Dawnguard as well. What I've learned so far interests me. I'm sure there will be more to Dawnguard than this conflict. The mention of the Snow Prince suggests as much.

[Elhanan]

Gotholhorakh wrote...

I think people being upset about day 1 DLC is understandable whichever angle you come at this from, because day 1 DLC probably feels like it borders on mandatory because it feels like you're being DLC'd for base game content.

Not that I believe this to be the case, surely this perception is created in the thoughtless (at least as far as the customers are concerned) release timing.

I think to be fair, you could be criticized if you did not anticipate ire as an obvious repercussion of that - it's really, really obvious that would irritate some customers, so it kind of looks a bit like a thumbed nose at customer relations.

Again, it's obviously not intended to cause any problems, it's just a little thoughtlessness that amounts to dropping the "customer relations ball".

Well set against the context of the conversation, I though it was in all honesty a fair comment to make, so I suspect YMMV there.

I think you might consider that "shallow character" business a bit ad hominem in the cold light of day, too - but far be it from me to reprimand you on this, no amateur moderator I

I did not get ME3, but did get the DA2 CE which included Day 1 DLC, I believe. Now if I recall, some felt it should have been included for everyone, and some felt that as CE material, it should have remained exclusive. I know this has been the case for SWTOR and some othet Bioware products.

Personally, I am fine with how the company handles their own products, be it DLC, toolkits, minis, etc. In the final call, I will make the purchase that is the best I am able. What I believe is unfair are those that demand and stomp their feet that they did not get a free cookie, too. At least, this is seemingly how it appaers to me.

[LobselVith8]

Luc0s wrote...

Don't worry, I'm sure you can still join the vampire clan and become one of them in the Dawnguard add-on. Besides, nothing is stopping you from becoming a vampire anyway, right? Just visit a cave with vampires, let them attack you until you have Sanquinis Vampiris and you're settled. 

But our vampire protagonists can't end the tyranny of the sun yet. 

And I'm sure some vampires will see the Volkihar Dragonborn as a hero on the "good" side; everyone is the hero of their own story.

[MarchWaltz]

Luc0s wrote...

MarchWaltz wrote...

It seems like in the DLC we can be on the "good side" or the "bad" side, I hope this is the case, since, y'know, I have no vamp characters.

Don't worry, I'm sure you can still join the vampire clan and become one of them in the Dawnguard add-on. Besides, nothing is stopping you from becoming a vampire anyway, right? Just visit a cave with vampires, let them attack you until you have Sanquinis Vampiris and you're settled. 

I meant I DONT want to become a vampire, my main char is a paladin, and I RP.

So....yeah, I hope I can join the Dawnguard. If not, this dlc would be crap for me.

[Elhanan]

MarchWaltz wrote...

I meant I DONT want to become a vampire, my main char is a paladin, and I RP.

So....yeah, I hope I can join the Dawnguard. If not, this dlc would be crap for me.

I do not require a new faction; simply am hoping for new content in which I may make my own Slayer as I wish. Based on other factions in Skyrim, it should be optional, and I prefer to work solo the majority of the time.

[Elhanan]

Giggles_Manically wrote...

Wow I love watching people come into a forum and say how mighty, amazing, and just damn superior they are to others.

I may be a complainer, but I dont act like I exist above my fellow gamers.
We all have our own POV to express, and more than likely live in nations that let us express them.

ME3 had DAY 1 DLC, that was mostly on the disc even, that is not justifiable.
It was a 10 dollar DLC for non-collector edition gamers and it was at most...1-1 and a half hours of content.

Dont come in here and act like you are above anyone.

Perhaps there are some that could come to the conclusion I feel superior to others when comparing positive posts vs negative, but it isn't me. That would require having the sim type of biased, bigoted prejudice as those making such assertions, and I do try and avoid that personally.

Bioware has right as well as the justification to charge for DLC, on the 1st Day or not; any company does. While it may be cool to get free stuff, it is certainly not mandatory. Don't wanna pay for it? Skip it; your choice.

Modifié par Elhanan, 03 juin 2012 - 12:27 .

[LPPrince]

Yes, you can join the Dawnguard.

Vampire hunting is an option. Its the option I'm taking.

[LobselVith8]

Elhanan wrote...

I do not require a new faction; simply am hoping for new content in which I may make my own Slayer as I wish. Based on other factions in Skyrim, it should be optional, and I prefer to work solo the majority of the time.

By solo, do you mean adventuring without a companion? Due to companions jumping in front of me when I fight, I tend to venture alone myself.

As for Dawnguard, I like that there are vampires you can converse and side with; Morrowind seems to be the last time you could join a vampire clan, and it's nice to see the narrative provide an opportunity to do so again. I'm probably going to have my werewolf assassin side with the Dawnguard, and my Tribunal mage help his fellow vampires block the sun, which puts them in a bit of a role reversal from what they have done previously. I'm also curious to see what else is in store in the DLC.