37007 réponses à ce sujet

[RedArmyShogun]

Addai67 wrote...

Confess-A-Bear wrote...

FYI there are perks to counter that. I use them. And I sneak in heavy armor.

There are, but you have to sneak successfully to get the sneak perks and the armor perk is pretty deep in the tree.  I really don't know why you would do that.

Same with Steed Stone- why wouldn't you use it as a heavy armor character, prior to getting Conditioning?  No movement penalty and offsetting the weight of your armor are pretty big bonuses, even just for running around the countryside.

Because I don't want to?

I use the lovers stone. Being able to level a bit more faster is better than most perks.

Also I like heavy Armors, looks, its stats, and the general feel it has. And no stealth moves pretty damn fine with it, if you use it often and use archery to hit crits for exp.

I have a level 21 character who right now has a 60 in stealth. And he's wore heavy armor from day one. 

Perk points also matter little to me. I tend to specialize my build, rather than generalize, or attempt to be a Jack of all trades.

Like I don't bother with block, two handed, or any of the magic skills. So that leaves me with plent of points for one handeds perk tree (pure sword build nothing in hammer or axes) Sneak, heavy armor, smithing, and a few points thrown at a few perks in lockpick and Archery.

[Elhanan]

My current Dragonborn is 19th with ca.57 in Stealth and Archery, and gets around fine. But I do not min/max points, and tend to always have 200 in all three abilities, if I recall correctly. Thus I do not have the encumberance troubles some do, and found that armor perks are not a priority for my gameplay.

BTW - For long jaunts, if one is on Constant move, sheaths and redraws a weapon, speed increases quite a bit. However, this is not advised for mountains, cliffs, etc, at least for those with poor reflexes like myself.

[Addai]

Fine, whatever.

@ Elhanan- you will see a noticeable difference in run speed if you take Conditioning or use the Steed stone. On my heavy armor characters, I can't wait til I can get up there and get it.

[Joy Divison]

I like how people base their arguments for the entire game on level 40+ characters.

Before level 10 it's *very difficult* to sneak up and backstab anything with NO armor.

I have never reached 70 in the heavy armor skill.

At level 20 the difference in armor rating btw/ heavy and light armor is significant.

It's possible to do anything in the game. But let's not pretend that the entire game is played with max alchemy & smithing trees and that 95% of skyrim players' leather armor hits the amror cap.

[Haplose]

Joy Divison wrote...

I like how people base their arguments for the entire game on level 40+ characters.

Before level 10 it's *very difficult* to sneak up and backstab anything with NO armor.

I have never reached 70 in the heavy armor skill.

At level 20 the difference in armor rating btw/ heavy and light armor is significant.

It's possible to do anything in the game. But let's not pretend that the entire game is played with max alchemy & smithing trees and that 95% of skyrim players' leather armor hits the amror cap.

Very good points, Joy.

It took forever to get Conditioning on my heavy armor orc.

Before "epic" levels the difference in protection is major. And one more thing: I don't think you can reach the armor cap in Light without Smithing. While in heavy it should be rather simple without using any crafting skills.

Only thing I disagree with is backstabbing: it's very easy to backstab almost from the beginning of the game if you use Calm spells ;-) (well, from the time you actually buy the spell, from Whiterun for example). This levels Sneak extremly fast.

[Joy Divison]

Haplose wrote...

Only thing I disagree with is backstabbing: it's very easy to backstab almost from the beginning of the game if you use Calm spells ;-) (well, from the time you actually buy the spell, from Whiterun for example). This levels Sneak extremly fast.

True.  Again it's possible to do anything.  If someone will use the calm spell consistently in such a manner, they should just save the trouble of purchasing the spellbook and instead hack the game file so their sneak score is 100.

Modifié par Joy Divison, 02 juillet 2012 - 06:00 .

[Haplose]

I disagree. That would be cheating. While using Calm is more along the lines of exploiting game mechanics. And mind control can actually be necessary for a frail robed mage if illusion and sneak trickery is his chosen gameplay style.. because he won't survive enemy attacks for long (and at later level can be one-shot easily).

[Elhanan]

Joy Divison wrote...

I like how people base their arguments for the entire game on level 40+ characters.

Before level 10 it's *very difficult* to sneak up and backstab anything with NO armor.

I have never reached 70 in the heavy armor skill.

At level 20 the difference in armor rating btw/ heavy and light armor is significant.

It's possible to do anything in the game. But let's not pretend that the entire game is played with max alchemy & smithing trees and that 95% of skyrim players' leather armor hits the amror cap.

Well, I am not backstabbing as much as Archer Sniping, but I am just now reaching 20th with 60 ranks in Archery and Stealth, and all in Heavy Armor. And I have done this at least twice before, and have yet to take those Heavy Armor perks.

And one may practice Sneaking while still bound for the headsman's axe; good way to gain some early pts.

Now I have not taken a straight Artisan design, but a few were posted in this thread, so it seems viable.

[Jestina]

Yes, most of the treasure is junk...which takes away one of the main joys in an RPG. No reason to leave town when you can just smith/enchant items that are better than anything you'll ever find adventuring.

As for sneaking about...,i've found that I can do it just as well in heavy armor, as I can in light...mainly with illusion magic. Of course it doesn't matter much since a backstab will pretty much kill anything in the game, so armor is rarely needed. And you don't have to go that far into the sneak tree to get one of the best perks in the game...50pts. X15 backstab with daggers for the win. That coupled with how easy it is in this game to get great assassin gear early.

[Yrkoon]

Slightly off topic...

Joy Divison wrote...
I have never reached 70 in the heavy armor skill.

Most sneak builds don't.   Or at least they don't until really high levels.    because Sneak and Armor go counter to each other. Working on  quick-leveling one of them means you're stunting the growth of the other.    That is to say, The way you increase your armor skill is to show yourself and get hit, while the way to build sneak is to.... sneak around and avoid full frontal combat at all costs.

Which is why I usually don't concern myself with sneak early on.  I'll begin the game walking in a crouch and just let the skill points come when they do,  (which will be slowly) but my focus will always be on engaging in combat straight up, and taking those hits so that my Armor skill increases quickly.  Of course, even doing that, you'll still see your sneak skill going up.    This method will usually come together right about the time you reach level 25 or so... your Heavy armor skill will be in the high 60s  (70 if you train), and your sneak skill will be   in the 50s  (ie. high enough to take the awesome backstab perks).  Which means You're now in a really good position...  your sneak is now totally viable, and your heavy armor skill is high enough to let you take  that tree's best perks.  (conditioning, matching set and  Juggernaut level 4)

Modifié par Yrkoon, 02 juillet 2012 - 10:06 .

[Haplose]

Only if you level smithing as well, you might not want to take matching set and many Juggernaut levels, because you'll pass the armor cap anyway, so most heavy armor perks are a waste if you are a crafter - unlike Light armor, where some perks are still necessary to reach the cap.

Modifié par Haplose, 02 juillet 2012 - 10:29 .

[Elhanan]

Jestina wrote...

Yes, most of the treasure is junk...which takes away one of the main joys in an RPG. No reason to leave town when you can just smith/enchant items that are better than anything you'll ever find adventuring.

As for sneaking about...,i've found that I can do it just as well in heavy armor, as I can in light...mainly with illusion magic. Of course it doesn't matter much since a backstab will pretty much kill anything in the game, so armor is rarely needed. And you don't have to go that far into the sneak tree to get one of the best perks in the game...50pts. X15 backstab with daggers for the win. That coupled with how easy it is in this game to get great assassin gear early.

And again, you appear to be incorrect, at least according to my own gameplay experience.

While I do use Smithing, the ranks and perks do not appear early as I refuse to grind for them. Instead, I have utilized only what loot is found in either as drops, or as shop purchases.

And one does not have to become a member of the DB or TG to sneak. Only my first Dradonborn was a member of these factions as I recall, and since I have had more than a few others  As for Backstab items, one may also gather these by destroying the DB; perhaps by looting those sent after the Dragonborn, too.

[Joy Divison]

Haplose wrote...

I disagree. That would be cheating. While using Calm is more along the lines of exploiting game mechanics. And mind control can actually be necessary for a frail robed mage if illusion and sneak trickery is his chosen gameplay style.. because he won't survive enemy attacks for long (and at later level can be one-shot easily).

That line of logic would be much more fun if enemies had a chance of resisting the calm effect.

[happy_daiz]

Yrkoon wrote...

Slightly off topic...

Joy Divison wrote...
I have never reached 70 in the heavy armor skill.

Most sneak builds don't.   Or at least they don't until really high levels.    because Sneak and Armor go counter to each other. Working on  quick-leveling one of them means you're stunting the growth of the other.    That is to say, The way you increase your armor skill is to show yourself and get hit, while the way to build sneak is to.... sneak around and avoid full frontal combat at all costs.

My sneak and heavy armor skills are neck-and-neck (high 70s). I must have a very clumsy play style - sneak/snipe, then get caught, and get hit.


I think I found a Dawnguard bug over the weekend... *not a spoiler*

I finished up the DG campaign, and have been happily frolicking Skyrim with my lovely vampire pet, Serana. Everything seems great, until I go into a random crypt with Draugr in it. One shout from a Deathlord, and suddenly, the screen turns red, and there is a message about vampirism and feeding. lolwut? My character is a werewolf.

How is this possible? Is there now a Draugr shout that can turn you into a vampire? That just doesn't seem right.

To test my theory, I reloaded a save prior to the crypt, and went to a shrine of Talos. I was thinking maybe after fighting the vampire crew at the castle that I'd somehow caught something (which again, shouldn't be possible). But I wanted to rule that out. So I went to Wolfskull Cave to do the first Potema quest. Got shouted at by a Draugr Deathlord, and was suddenly a vampire again. /facepalm

Aside from that, I didn't experience any bugs or weirdness. I was happy to find out that the DG radiant quests continue, even after the main quest is done. They're not all just "go kill x vampire" - some come with powerful loot! There are a couple of other ones that were cool, but I'll let you guys find out about those for yourselves.

Modifié par happy_daiz, 02 juillet 2012 - 02:03 .

[Addai]

Jestina wrote...

Yes, most of the treasure is junk...which takes away one of the main joys in an RPG. No reason to leave town when you can just smith/enchant items that are better than anything you'll ever find adventuring.

Where do you get your ore from if you're not exploring?  I'm sorry, your complaints just don't make any sense.  Not unless you're setting out to try to break the game rather than just, you know, playing it.

About Dawnguard, a lot of complaints about random vampire attacks turning the towns into ghost towns.  Anyone experiencing that?  It sounds worrisome.

[happy_daiz]

The only way I was able to avoid things like that happening was to fast travel to points within the city, instead of the city gates (Dragonsreach versus Whiterun, Thieves Guild versus Riften, Blue Palace versus Solitude, etc.) When I did that, I didn't have any problems, nor were there any vampires present. In places like Dawnstar, it's hard to avoid, unless you fast travel to the Dawnstar DB Sanctuary, and walked over from there.

On a sidenote, in this playthrough, I had another dragon land in Windhelm. Crazy when they do that. Like the first time, it perched on Candlehearth Hall, and eventually landed between CH and the keep, which was its final resting place, so to speak.

Modifié par happy_daiz, 02 juillet 2012 - 03:16 .

[happy_daiz]

Five dragons at one time? Are you pulling our legs?

The most I've had was two dragons at one time, then a third showed up right after the first was slain.

[happy_daiz]

Yeah, but you can blaze right through Blackreach to get the scroll if you want. You can always come back for the Crimson Nirnroot quest, and to do some exploring at that time.

But, I'm guessing you probably won't do that.

Also, I have to agree on Dawnguard. Best $20 I've ever spent. Aside from that weird werewolf/vampire bug (if it is a bug) I described earlier, I thought it was fantastic. I didn't want it to end. And honestly, I can't even imagine how they would follow that up with the next DLC.

Modifié par happy_daiz, 02 juillet 2012 - 04:09 .

[Jestina]

Addai67 wrote...
Where do you get your ore from if you're not exploring?  I'm sorry, your complaints just don't make any sense.  Not unless you're setting out to try to break the game rather than just, you know, playing it.

Shopkeepers have everything you need. A lot of ore/ingots can just be found lying about...usually wherever there is a blacksmith. I haven't broken anything. It's just that you can become overly powerful in such a short span of time...and the game doesn't really compensate well for it. If I have to limit myself, then it is the game mechanics that are broken. If you're going to spend an hour or two crawling through some dungeon, then you expect to find something to make it worth your time...not just more of the same trash that you could have purchased from a shopkeeper.

[Addai]

I did hear that you need the Elder Scroll to do the DG quest line- which you can pretty much guess from the trailer, where the PC walks in with it on her back. I guess that means you shouldn't sell it to the orc librarian when you're done with the main quest.

I did the MQ fairly early this time, on my Stormcloak replay. It's worth it to get the Season Unending quest and I was also a lot happier seeing the mist relatively empty instead of encountering Rikke or Ulfric/ Galmar or Kodlak there. It made me teed off to think of Alduin using the Nord afterlife as a stalking ground to increase his power. As Paarthurnax says, he was overstepping his role as lord of time by doing that.

Was also once again reminded of how daft people must be to say that the MQ in Skyrim is not epic enough. Alduin's attacks should be a lot deadlier (those hail of rocks barely do any damage), but the scene itself is pretty moving and so is the one after it with Paarthurnax proclaiming Alduin's defeat. I get choked up when he flies off saying "I feel younger than I have in many an age." Then when Odahviing drops in to say "I'll come when you call me." Dragons are so awesome in this game.

Modifié par Addai67, 02 juillet 2012 - 04:12 .