37007 réponses à ce sujet

[Addai]

Yes, and..? I'm just answering the question. My point is that for things to even get to that point shows that the empire is finished.

[Druss99]

Kyle Kabanya wrote...

Thanks for the tip about the glitch, its just I spent hours to actually level up my character, and I don't want to do it again.

So Dawnguard is awsome? Is is a whole new dungoen or area to the game?

I know what you mean, that would drive me up the wall.

Yeah, I loved it. It adds a few new area's, a new faction quest (like the dark brotherhood, theives guild etc..), new followers, weapons, armour and enemies which carry over into the main game. It upgrades some things in the main game too. It's definately worth the price in my opinion.

[Yrkoon]

If you say so. Personally I've never had the pleasure of engaging Alduin in Dialogue, nor have I found any journals he's written on the subject.   So I obviously don't have the insight into his motivations, like you do. lol

Modifié par Yrkoon, 23 juillet 2012 - 01:34 .

[Costin_Razvan]

greengoron89 wrote...

The proof is in the pudding, pal - Alduin was interested in prolonging the Civil War for the sake of feeding on the fallens' souls in Sovngarde. If you even remotely paid attention to what was going on in the game, you would've known that already.

Not that you're a stranger to not paying attention and making assumptions out of ignorance or anything.

Right because I have to assume Alduin couldn't just want to kill everyone on his own and then feast on their souls.

Spare me, my arguments are grounded with logic yours are purely based on your anti-Imperial bias and nothing more, but considering you stated you didn't care to argue anymore then why are you still here?

Modifié par Costin_Razvan, 23 juillet 2012 - 02:04 .

[Barbarossa2010]

Addai67 wrote...

Barbarossa2010 wrote...
Skyrim is free!...oh, but there still sits Riften like a sore thumb and cesspool of degenerates. Some Dragonborn you are, can't even topple Maven.

I think that shows a degree of realism, though.  Same with the Silverbloods and Igmund in Markarth, who I'd also like to tie together and drop to the bottom of Lake Ilinalta.

I prefer to think of it as a "development oversight."  It gets me through the Rift while I'm holding my nose.  Primarily because it seems so unrealistic with what the Dragonborn means to the land and what he/she actually has done.  To me, the realism factor is best exemplified through the grayness of things like the Civil War, etc; where violent, passionate arguments are to be made from either faction as to just how right each side thinks they are.  Maven...nah, she's just perfectly ripe for catching the business end of war axe, after hearing the moans of the oppressed; epsecially if you're tearing down the organizations she has her heel on or she's in bed with, and setting Riften upon the path of righteousness.  Riften's one of those places I'd like to be able to build a network or cell, to break the back of corruption for a goody two shoes type PC. 

As it is, I drop into Black-Briar Lodge every so often just to rough up her cronies and their respawns, just so I can role play that I'm dropping the hammer on Maven. 

I agree with you about the Silverbloods.  There's really not a well deep enough in Skyrim.

Modifié par Barbarossa2010, 23 juillet 2012 - 02:06 .

[Yrkoon]

greengoron89 wrote...

Why the hell else would Alduin show up at Helgen? He certainly didn't show up to kill the Dragonborn -

We are not told the reason why he shows up in Helgen, just in time to halt a string of executions.   And I don't think  anyone can actually play through the game's prologue and conclude that Alduin was picking and choosing his targets  when he rains fire and lighting storms down on the entire town, often times Hitting the Dragonborn as he/she tries to escape.


 

however, he does like feeding on souls in Sovngarde, and prolonging the Civil War is a wise move to that end.

  Then he probably should have made his appearance at Darkwater Crossing, where the initial  Imperial ambush that captures Ulfric took place.  "Wise moves", also inlcudes  ressurecting dead dragons via the specific pattern outlined on the dragonstone, to aid him  in the total destruction of the world  (he is called the world eater, yes?) 

I don't think he cares all that much about the petty squirmishes of the  imperial legion vs. stormcloaks issue.  And why would he, when he could  much easier destroy them  if they were at peace.  
 

Modifié par Yrkoon, 23 juillet 2012 - 02:18 .

[Addai]

Yrkoon wrote...

If you say so. Personally I've never had the pleasure of engaging Alduin in Dialogue, nor have I found any journals he's written on the subject.   So I obviously don't have the insight into his motivations, like you do. lol

It's a logical theory.  Alduin feeds on souls in the mist of Sovngarde- how is he going to get more of those- by fomenting war.  I personally think he was drawn to the dragonborn, though.  If there were some other evidence of his interfering to keep the civil war going, like trying to stop you from taking holds, that would lend more credence to the idea.  As it is he's mostly busy raising dovah from the dead.

Modifié par Addai67, 23 juillet 2012 - 02:19 .

[Yrkoon]

greengoron89 wrote...

@Costin - Lulz. No, your arguments (as far as Alduin and the attack on Helgen are concerned) are grounded in inattentiveness and not thinking things through clearly, whilst your position on the Civil War shows an obvious bias of its own (pro-Imperial in this case) - you can flatter yourself for being "logical" all day, but you're not fooling me.

Well, I'd say he's fooling me. This discussion has been a great pleasure to read. He and Addai have both made terrific arguments.

Modifié par Yrkoon, 23 juillet 2012 - 02:21 .

[Addai]

Yrkoon wrote...
  Then he probably should have made his appearance at Darkwater Crossing, where the initial  Imperial ambush that captures Ulfric took place.  "Wise moves", also inlcudes  ressurecting dead dragons via the specific pattern outlined on the dragonstone, to aid him  in the total destruction of the world  (he is called the world eater, yes?) 

Alduin is not trying to destroy the world.  He's trying to dominate it, as Paarthurnax tells you.

It's probably Talos' fault.  Talos is holding the current kalpa in place, so Alduin can't fulfill his role as world-eater.  If Skyrim is decimated, Talos will be weakened and things can go back to normal.  This is incidentally the Thalmor's plan, too, but Alduin came back sooner than they planned.  They can't just let Talos be weakened- they need him gone and humanity removed from the pattern of possibility, or else the cycle of death and rebirth of Nirn will continue.

[Yrkoon]

Paartharnax tells you that Alduin is the Harbinger of the end times. Doesn't that imply the destruction of the world?

Modifié par Yrkoon, 23 juillet 2012 - 02:29 .

[Addai]

He is the world eater, but that's not what he's doing now. Paarthurnax's beef with him is that he has stepped out of his bounds, given in to the will to dominate.

It's a bit confusing because the game story is set up so that casual players can beat the big bad and not think much more about it, but Alduin is not evil. His role in Nirn is necessary. Talos has changed all the rules, so cosmologically speaking everyone's a little off their game.

edit- You notice that Paarthurnax never agrees with you that the world should be saved.  He asks you why you want it to be saved, and he equivocates about your answer.  The most you get out of him is "that's as good a reason as any."  Arngeir the same, he says "what if the world was meant to end?"

Modifié par Addai67, 23 juillet 2012 - 02:33 .

[Joy Divison]

I think I read something in the Thalmor embassy which alludes to the Thalmor aiding Ulfric's escape after the dragon attack at Helgen. This strikes me as seizing an opportunity; I'm not sure they would have been able to do anything had Alduin not intervened.

There is no evidence that Alduin showed up at Helgen to fester chaos and allow Ulfric to escape, but doesn't the prophecy state his return is contingent on a Skyrim Civil War? If Ulfric is executed and the rebellion stomped out...then there is no Civil War. His appearance at Helgen could be just him fulfilling the prophecy of his return rather than any logical thought process.

[Addai]

greengoron89 wrote...

I don't see why he'd try to stop you from taking the Holds when hundreds of people are being slaughtered during the process - all the more souls for him. It's the Peace Treaty at High Hrothgar that I'd have expected him to try and stop, but obviously the Dragonborn personally saw to it that Alduin would not have that opportunity in the previous quest.

That's true.

It is indeed possible though that him showing up at Helgen was a coincidence or was due in some part to being drawn to the Dragonborn's presence. But he didn't seem to be aware of the Dragonborn as far as I could tell, and it seems like an awfully calculated move on Alduin's part to just happen to show up at that particular place and time, especially when he has so much to gain from preventing Ulfric's execution from taking place.

No matter what, it was all according to the prophecy, regardless of the motivations of those present - it does feel like everyone had their own specific reason to be there, though.

He does look right at you when he's perched above you.  I think he can sense the dragonborn.  At Kynesgrove, he knows who you are.

It could be that he's just there by chance, too.  He came back at High Hrothgar, and starts raising dovah in the southeast, which would have put him geographically near Helgen.  But, that's the only town he rips apart so your theory is good in that respect.  I don't think we can really know his motives there.

Anyone interested in a little mind-bending series of stories about Alduin and the old Nords, read Michael Kirkbride's Seven Fights of the Aldudagga.  In the first bit, the "Greedy Man" is Lorkhan, and the Leaper Demon is Mehrunes Dagon- so this is backstory for both Oblivion's and Skyrim's cosmic conflict.

Modifié par Addai67, 23 juillet 2012 - 03:20 .

[Addai]

He must have been raised at least by the time Torygg died or Torygg wouldn't have been caught in his mist. The rebellion had been going on for a few years already, though, so as far as prophecy goes that works out.

Modifié par Addai67, 23 juillet 2012 - 03:21 .

[Elhanan]

greengoron89 wrote...

Sorry to deviate from the discussion at hand, but what are peoples' thoughts on Illusion magic? I'm gonna play a vampire mage character and I wanna know if it's worth pursuing as a skill.

Quiet Casting is worth it for me, as it affects Shouts as well it seems. But overall, I am a bit disappointed in Illusion as it all comes down to:

* Flee
* Fight
* Peace

And to affect most enemies, it will take heavy investment in the Spell Tree; very heavy.

Modifié par Elhanan, 23 juillet 2012 - 03:58 .

[Joy Divison]

Illusion is great if you invest the perks to make it work on equivalent level humans/animals. Just know it is worthless against many enemies in the game such as undead, dragons, automatons, summons, etc.

[Elhanan]

Joy Divison wrote...

Illusion is great if you invest the perks to make it work on equivalent level humans/animals. Just know it is worthless against many enemies in the game such as undead, dragons, automatons, summons, etc.

There is a perk just above Quiet casting to make them affected, but one seems to require a whole lot of other perks to make it worth taking it; maybe both sides of the tree to get high enough lvls. Then in order to get the Magika to cast the potent spells, perhaps taking the remaining perks to half casting costs.

If you are playing for stealth, QC is a worthy investment. If one wants to play a Master Illusionist, then plan on taking most or all of the perks.

P.S. On the plus side, Illusion seems to be easier to Level Up than the other spells.

Modifié par Elhanan, 23 juillet 2012 - 04:10 .

[Elhanan]

This was posted ages ago, and has been helpful in designing characters:

http://skyrimcalculator.com/#2696