27 réponses à ce sujet

[CalJones]

I generally tend towards playing humans but I thought it'd be fun to make a fairly despicable, cowardly character for a change, and picked a male city elf for this. My first CE went off to run the wardens with her girlfriend, Leliana, and I believe I made Shianni bann in that game. This time, though, my male elf (whose name was mud in the alienage after selling out Shianni to Vaughan and then allowing Caladrius to use the elves in his blood magic ritual) opted to be bann himself. However, there was no mention of it in the epilogue slides - Anora was sole queen and I just got the standard slide about the riots being put down and then Shianni becoming elder. Is this normal? (The Soris epilogue was also missing). I'm just wondering if it was because my elf did a lot of bad stuff and wasn't too popular back home.

[IanPolaris]

Afraid so. Pretty much no choice or boon you ask for in final scene makes a whit of difference.



-Polaris

[CalJones]

Meh. I was also not impressed that Cyrion showed up at the Post-Coronation, when he should have been dead. Oversight much!

[ejoslin]

The slides are bugged. I do have a fix up on ZDF's page as an update file -- they're pretty bad, though. Unfortunately, I was unable to restore the one if the warden is Bann if Alistair is king (unable to test it if Anora is queen due to not having that save and extreme laziness), but the one if Shianni is Bann and the one if no one specified is Bann (but there is a Bann) trigger properly.

I'll look into making Cyrion disappear -- that is probably an issue with a script.  Hopefully.  There is a major file there that is corrupted in both the toolset and in the core resource files which is why I was unable to fix the slide if the warden is bann.  HOPEFULLY I don't need that to fix Cyrion.

Edit: Meh, Cyrion is easy to fix, but will require a few extra lines of code.  I'll do it within the next few days.  when it's more than a line or two, I get twitchy

Modifié par ejoslin, 18 décembre 2010 - 05:25 .

[Zjarcal]

CalJones wrote...

Meh. I was also not impressed that Cyrion showed up at the Post-Coronation, when he should have been dead. Oversight much!

What was attitude like in the ceremony. Did he acknowledge the things you had done (like when he says you're not welcome in his house if you allowed Shianni to be raped)?

And does this also happen with Irving if he dies in the Tower (assuming you're playing a mage)?

Modifié par Zjarcal, 18 décembre 2010 - 05:27 .

[IanPolaris]

Zjarcal wrote...

CalJones wrote...

Meh. I was also not impressed that Cyrion showed up at the Post-Coronation, when he should have been dead. Oversight much!

What was attitude like in the ceremony. Did he acknowledge the things you had done (like when he says you're not welcome in his house if you allowed Shianni to be raped)?

And oes this also happen with Irving if he dies in the Tower (assuming you're playing a mage)?

It can if you killed Irving during the bloodmage confrontation and used the "canned" fixes to continue the game.  If you use the right console commands it won't happen.  The only person you can not "kill" after a bloodmage-circle confrontation even though you kill her in that confrontation is Wynne.  If you try to flag Wynne as dead after the blood-mage circle confrontation, you foul up your save six ways from sunday.

-Polaris

[CalJones]

Cyrion was all proud during the ceremony and friendly. Even if you saved him from Caladrius he is still an ass to you if you leave Shianni to Vaughan, which is why I left him to die.

I'm not sure getting rid of him will be that easy as he is in the cutscene, but give it a go, Ejoslin. I do have your other fixes installed.

I don't know what happens to Irving if you let him die in the tower. I anulled the Circle this time around and Gregoir showed up at the archdemon fight instead, but as this run was a city elf, neither should appear post Coronation anyway.

[Ryzaki]

Wait...he's a jerk if you leave Shianni? Can you even explain (that is if your character did this for this reason) that you did it to protect the Alienage (or try to at least).

[CalJones]

No. You have no way of justifying it. (And you can't shop in the Alarith's shop either!)

[Ryzaki]

CalJones wrote...

No. You have no way of justifying it. (And you can't shop in the Alarith's shop either!)

*jaw hits floor* 

Are you serious?

I saved their lives!

How...urgh.

[IanPolaris]

Ryzaki wrote...

CalJones wrote...

No. You have no way of justifying it. (And you can't shop in the Alarith's shop either!)

*jaw hits floor* 

Are you serious?

I saved their lives!

How...urgh.

City Elves are fundamentally cowards and frankly are a doomed poeple.    With some exceptions (like Shianni and Velandrian to name two) I see very little redeeming value in the city elves or their culture.  That doesn't make how they are treated right, but they (CEs) do seem to try to live down to the humans opinion of them all too often.

I have much more respect for the Dwarven Casteless who by and large at least show some spunk.

-Polaris

Edit:  The reason for the rant and how it relates is this:  Cowardly people and cultures (and the CE qualifies on both counts) are often quick to condemn their own.....you see this especially if you are a non-CE saving the alienage.  Even if you ask them to help the city elves can't runaway from their homes fast enough.  Even Shianni comes across like a coward in that scene.

Modifié par IanPolaris, 18 décembre 2010 - 08:02 .

[Persephone]

ejoslin wrote...

The slides are bugged. I do have a fix up on ZDF's page as an update file -- they're pretty bad, though. Unfortunately, I was unable to restore the one if the warden is Bann if Alistair is king (unable to test it if Anora is queen due to not having that save and extreme laziness), but the one if Shianni is Bann and the one if no one specified is Bann (but there is a Bann) trigger properly.

I'll look into making Cyrion disappear -- that is probably an issue with a script.  Hopefully.  There is a major file there that is corrupted in both the toolset and in the core resource files which is why I was unable to fix the slide if the warden is bann.  HOPEFULLY I don't need that to fix Cyrion.

Edit: Meh, Cyrion is easy to fix, but will require a few extra lines of code.  I'll do it within the next few days.  when it's more than a line or two, I get twitchy

Tested your Epilogue file with Anora & Alistair married (Loghain spared & alive) and the slides with my character as Bann worked just fine. Just to let you know, ejoslin. Awesome work, as usual! 

[Reaverwind]

CalJones wrote...

I don't know what happens to Irving if you let him die in the tower. I anulled the Circle this time around and Gregoir showed up at the archdemon fight instead, but as this run was a city elf, neither should appear post Coronation anyway.

If your character is a mage and the Circle is annulled, neither Greagoir nor Irving appear post-Coronation, if your mage survives.

Modifié par Reaverwind, 18 décembre 2010 - 06:41 .

[ejoslin]

Persephone wrote...

ejoslin wrote...

The slides are bugged. I do have a fix up on ZDF's page as an update file -- they're pretty bad, though. Unfortunately, I was unable to restore the one if the warden is Bann if Alistair is king (unable to test it if Anora is queen due to not having that save and extreme laziness), but the one if Shianni is Bann and the one if no one specified is Bann (but there is a Bann) trigger properly.

I'll look into making Cyrion disappear -- that is probably an issue with a script.  Hopefully.  There is a major file there that is corrupted in both the toolset and in the core resource files which is why I was unable to fix the slide if the warden is bann.  HOPEFULLY I don't need that to fix Cyrion.

Edit: Meh, Cyrion is easy to fix, but will require a few extra lines of code.  I'll do it within the next few days.  when it's more than a line or two, I get twitchy

Tested your Epilogue file with Anora & Alistair married (Loghain spared & alive) and the slides with my character as Bann worked just fine. Just to let you know, ejoslin. Awesome work, as usual! 

Ohoh, thank you so much for checking that.  So it sounds like talking to Anora gets the flag set properly, just not talking to Alistair.  PC as bann is not as terrible as the other ones; I wish i could set that flag properly1

[IanPolaris]

Reaverwind wrote...

CalJones wrote...

I don't know what happens to Irving if you let him die in the tower. I anulled the Circle this time around and Gregoir showed up at the archdemon fight instead, but as this run was a city elf, neither should appear post Coronation anyway.

If your character is a mage and the Circle is annulled, neither Greagoir nor Irving appear post-Coronation, if your mage survives.

Yes, but if you kill Irving in the bloodmage confrotation but use the generic fix to get the mage army, Irving will come back to the dead to congratulate you on defeating the archdemon.  For that matter, if you destroy both sides in the bloodmage confrontation and even use the correct console commands (which kills Gregoire), Gregoire will come back to the dead for your funeral if you took the ultimate sacrifice.

-Polaris

[IanPolaris]

[double post]

Modifié par IanPolaris, 18 décembre 2010 - 08:41 .

[Skadi_the_Evil_Elf]

CalJones wrote...

Cyrion was all proud during the ceremony and friendly. Even if you saved him from Caladrius he is still an ass to you if you leave Shianni to Vaughan, which is why I left him to die.
I'm not sure getting rid of him will be that easy as he is in the cutscene, but give it a go, Ejoslin. I do have your other fixes installed.
I don't know what happens to Irving if you let him die in the tower. I anulled the Circle this time around and Gregoir showed up at the archdemon fight instead, but as this run was a city elf, neither should appear post Coronation anyway.

I've heard that Cyrion shows up at the Post Corronation even if you sold him into slavery (dunno if he does if you sacrifice him).

Someone already posted that as a mage, if you annul the tower and survive, no one comes to hang out with you. I also just discovered in Witch hunt that upon returning to the Circle and you annuled the tower, the templar in charge (forget his name) wasn't too happy to see me, said I was only allowed in because i was a hero, but he hadn't forgotten what I did (I'm assuming annuling the tower). Which is surprising coming from a templar.

[CalJones]

I did sacrifice him and he does.

[Skadi_the_Evil_Elf]

Another reason to hate the city elf origin. Your annoying relatives don't seem to want to stay dead.

[Ryzaki]

@Skadi: Why would it be surprising? Surely the mages and the templars knew each other and some might have become friendly/intimate. I'd be pissed off too if you killed my friends when there was another way.

[Reaverwind]

Skadi_the_Evil_Elf wrote...

CalJones wrote...

Cyrion was all proud during the ceremony and friendly. Even if you saved him from Caladrius he is still an ass to you if you leave Shianni to Vaughan, which is why I left him to die.
I'm not sure getting rid of him will be that easy as he is in the cutscene, but give it a go, Ejoslin. I do have your other fixes installed.
I don't know what happens to Irving if you let him die in the tower. I anulled the Circle this time around and Gregoir showed up at the archdemon fight instead, but as this run was a city elf, neither should appear post Coronation anyway.

I've heard that Cyrion shows up at the Post Corronation even if you sold him into slavery (dunno if he does if you sacrifice him).

Someone already posted that as a mage, if you annul the tower and survive, no one comes to hang out with you. I also just discovered in Witch hunt that upon returning to the Circle and you annuled the tower, the templar in charge (forget his name) wasn't too happy to see me, said I was only allowed in because i was a hero, but he hadn't forgotten what I did (I'm assuming annuling the tower). Which is surprising coming from a templar.

Really? Are you sure his reaction is due to the Circle being annulled, and not due to Jowan escaping? 

[Skadi_the_Evil_Elf]

Ryzaki wrote...

@Skadi: Why would it be surprising? Surely the mages and the templars knew each other and some might have become friendly/intimate. I'd be pissed off too if you killed my friends when there was another way.

Yes, very surprising, given the templar/mage dynamic. It is doubtful that the templars and mages, with a couple exceptions like Irving and Gregoire, were ever close enough to be considered friends. It is highly unlikely they would be close to many. Certainly the lore gives us the impression of alot of tension and mutual dislike bearely kept beneath the surface in both factions.

And I annulled the tower. In otherwords, I just finished what the templars themselves were starting. I did not kill the mages. Uldred did. As far as the templars are concerned when you first walk in the tower, there is no other option but annulment, and they are quite ready to do so as soon as they get the necessary forces. So again, as far as a templar is concerned, I simply helped them in their difficult task.

@Reaverwind: Dunno if that's what it is or not. This is the first time I've taken a mage through Witch Hunt.  But I would have guessed it was because of my actions regarding the fate of the Circle...unless, of course, he was referring to one of the other numerous deeds of infamy my blood mage performed: abandoning Amaranthine to the darkspawn, running Vigil's keep into the ground, defiling the ashes, slaughtering the dalish, ect. Though I couldn't see why he'd call me out on any of that.

[Zjarcal]

Well, when I first took my mage who saved the Circle into Witch Hunt, the Templar was happy to see me and didn't make any snarky comments.



When I took my Dalish who did annul the Circle, he made the same comments that Skadi mentioned, so I'm pretty sure it's related to the Annulment.



Also, it IS surprising that they would be pissed at you, given they are the ones who called for the annulment in the first place, and none of the Templars were aware that the Litany of Adralla was an option.

[Skadi_the_Evil_Elf]

@Zjarcal: Thanks for that info. So it was the annulment he was pissed off about. Surprising. My blood mage was the only one I've played so far that annulled the circle, so I wasn't sure.

[Reaverwind]

@Zjarcal:
I agree that it IS surprising that Templars would be upset about the Annulment being carried out, especially given what Greagoir says at the US Warden's funeral.

Modifié par Reaverwind, 19 décembre 2010 - 02:38 .