119 réponses à ce sujet

[Alphyn]

I agree. I never saw the point in killing off people. If you have the chance to save them, why not do so?

[Kane-Corr]

I think it was actually more compelling to keep them alive....because that was the goal. The whole time I was just like....don't die don't die!



Having certain characters die in the second installment was really just a lazy thing to do. Now, if it was the third installment then it is what it is. But, against the Collecters?! Really?! They are just a myth race of mindless husks that abduct harmless civilians. Your gonna have people die because you didn't want to take the time to update your ship's shields and such.



I'm sorry, but common sense= people saved.

People saved=bonds formed/continuation of relationship= more content.



Why would you not want more content, and a larger list of allies when dealing with the incoming Reaper threat? I mean, wouldn't you want to have everyone survive? That's what I think the real Commander Shepard would do.

[Bocks]

Alphyn wrote...

I agree. I never saw the point in killing off people. If you have the chance to save them, why not do so?

That adorable Thane in your avatar just makes me like you even more.

Back on topic, I don't understand the reasoning behind the "it makes sense for people to die" argument, either. Shepard's a leader. S/he's born to tackle tasks that are EXACTLY like this. For my Shepard, it goes against the promise of never losing another man under his command again, something which he has yet to do again, and probably never will.

Really, the suicide mission requires trivial thinking at best. It's not exactly the most difficult puzzle in videogame history, people.

[aeetos21]

People will die, again not that many people saw the need to rescue the Normandy's crew ASAP. But keeping people alive for the sake of content in ME3 makes sense from a fictional standpoint - if not entirely realistic. Though I am not a fan of the series according to my mom and sister apparently the author of the Harry Potter stuff is killing off half her characters in the last two parts of the series.



Having more people around to get knocked off in the last chapter makes it more exciting, this is fact. Is it realistic? I mean REALLY how many people managed to save Kelly during their first playthrough without the assistance of a guide or something?

[Kane-Corr]

aeetos21 wrote...

People will die, again not that many people saw the need to rescue the Normandy's crew ASAP. But keeping people alive for the sake of content in ME3 makes sense from a fictional standpoint - if not entirely realistic. Though I am not a fan of the series according to my mom and sister apparently the author of the Harry Potter stuff is killing off half her characters in the last two parts of the series.

Having more people around to get knocked off in the last chapter makes it more exciting, this is fact. Is it realistic? I mean REALLY how many people managed to save Kelly during their first playthrough without the assistance of a guide or something?

Uhh...I saved her without a guide haha. It was more of a thing to me where it was like, ok....Collecters took my crew....should probs get them back asap if everyone is ready and the IFF is set to go. I mean....just one of those common sense things that stuck out to me at least.

[Bocks]

aeetos21 wrote...

People will die, again not that many people saw the need to rescue the Normandy's crew ASAP. But keeping people alive for the sake of content in ME3 makes sense from a fictional standpoint - if not entirely realistic. Though I am not a fan of the series according to my mom and sister apparently the author of the Harry Potter stuff is killing off half her characters in the last two parts of the series.

Having more people around to get knocked off in the last chapter makes it more exciting, this is fact. Is it realistic? I mean REALLY how many people managed to save Kelly during their first playthrough without the assistance of a guide or something?

If killing people off at the end (though their deaths ultimately mean nothing) makes it more exciting, I failed to be touched by the last Harry Potter book.

[aeetos21]

I thought it would come down more to tactics when it came to saving the crew but, hey good on you bro for seeing that one coming.

Edit: ^^I never read one of those books and I only saw a few of those movies when others were watching. They could kill Harry Popsicle and I wouldn't bat an eye.

Modifié par aeetos21, 18 décembre 2010 - 03:05 .

[Bamboozalist]

aeetos21 wrote...

People will die, again not that many people saw the need to rescue the Normandy's crew ASAP. But keeping people alive for the sake of content in ME3 makes sense from a fictional standpoint - if not entirely realistic. Though I am not a fan of the series according to my mom and sister apparently the author of the Harry Potter stuff is killing off half her characters in the last two parts of the series.

Having more people around to get knocked off in the last chapter makes it more exciting, this is fact. Is it realistic? I mean REALLY how many people managed to save Kelly during their first playthrough without the assistance of a guide or something?

I did. I'd go into details why but this is a spoiler free section.

[Alphyn]

Play your way, and I'll play mine. Don't tell me how to play my f*cking game.

[Bocks]

Alphyn wrote...

Play your way, and I'll play mine. Don't tell me how to play my f*cking game.

You missed the point where I said that I was simply saying that I might disagree on the choices you make, but I respect them and your opinions. I'm not telling anyone how to play through their adventures, I'm just trying to make them think about them a bit more.

[AdmiralCheez]

Bocks wrote...

Alphyn wrote...

Play your way, and I'll play mine. Don't tell me how to play my f*cking game.

You missed the point where I said that I was simply saying that I might disagree on the choices you make, but I respect them and your opinions. I'm not telling anyone how to play through their adventures, I'm just trying to make them think about them a bit more.

Alphyn was agreeing with you, Bocks.

[Alphyn]

Bocks wrote...
You missed the point where I said that I was simply saying that I might disagree on the choices you make, but I respect them and your opinions. I'm not telling anyone how to play through their adventures, I'm just trying to make them think about them a bit more.

I know, I was talking to them.

I throughly dislike people who think that they can tell ME how to play the game THEIR way.

[Bocks]

Alphyn wrote...

Bocks wrote...
You missed the point where I said that I was simply saying that I might disagree on the choices you make, but I respect them and your opinions. I'm not telling anyone how to play through their adventures, I'm just trying to make them think about them a bit more.

I know, I was talking to them.

I throughly dislike people who think that they can tell ME how to play the game THEIR way.

Apologies, I mistook the comment as agressiveness towards me.

[Alphyn]

Bocks wrote...

Apologies, I mistook the comment as agressiveness towards me.

You're the one that actually makes sense on this whole damn thread. <_<

[Zulu_DFA]

AdmiralCheez wrote...

Oh yeah! How could I forget? Mass Effect 2 is a parody game. So, sure, everyone must survive in a "suicide mission"!

You're as adorable as ever, Zulu.  I could just pinch your little cheek.

Try searching for a "Galactic Police" thread. While you are at it, think the SC2's ending, how Tychus CHOSE to take chances and not shoot Little Jimmy in the back before taking a shot at Kerrigan, and what was the consequence of that choice.


EDIT: here's the link you need.

http://social.biowar...index/2994351/9

Modifié par Zulu_DFA, 18 décembre 2010 - 03:32 .

[syllogi]

Bamboozalist wrote...

TeenZombie wrote...

Bioware disagrees with your premise.  Otherwise they wouldn't have made you choose on Virmire, or given you the option to kill enough members of your squad to get the "Shepard dies" ending.  Somebody over there thinks that it is "emotionally engaging" and dramatic.  And since a percentage of people take the option of letting people die, they must agree.

I think it blows, because it limits their options for bringing back characters from game to game, when they have to factor in that they might be dead, as seen with Ashley, Kaidan, and Wrex.  If I had a vote, I would have said I would prefer to have those characters back in ME2 instead of the optional death scenes in ME1.  But nobody asked me.

Basically, it's a gimmick that the devs are happy with, and we'll probably see it again in ME3, despite the fact that it inhibits good writing for the characters caught up in it.

No they don't. Bioware has a massive budget for ME3 and ME2 had tons of unused crap just sitting in it. There is no reason Bioware can bring back ME2 people and just have them be dead for people who killed them. And for new people either do a comic like the PS3 or a random algorithm that random selects who lived so they get replay value out of each new game.

I'm not sure if you get what I'm saying (or maybe I don't understand your first sentence), but I'm not disagreeing with the OP, I just don't think that Bioware is going to deviate in ME3 from the formula of the first two games...which so far is "killing characters adds emotional depth" without regard for the fact that it causes problems down the road when they have to create roles for characters who are dead in a percentage of player's games.  So, even though I will be importing a "perfect" save where everyone makes it out alive, I don't have confidence that my favorite ME2 characters will be on my squad in ME3...because I experienced this already, going from ME1 to ME2. 

I definitely want to see whatever content will be available in ME3 when it comes to the ME2 squadmates, but I do not think all twelve will have great roles in the finale.  Some might actually be squadmates, and some might have great roles as NPCs, but not all of them.

[Zulu_DFA]

aeetos21 wrote...

Aristotle had his own opinions, mostly in dealing with science which is based more in logic and fact but if he wasn't as prominent, opinionated, and influential then there'd be little grounds to charge the man and try to place him on trial.

I think you're mixing Aristotle with Socrates.

[AdmiralCheez]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Try searching for a "Galactic Police" thread. While you are at it, think the SC2's ending, how Tychus CHOSE to take chances and not shoot Little Jimmy in the back before taking a shot at Kerrigan, and what was the consequence of that choice.

I actually thought SC2's ending was crap, but that's mostly because you saw the betrayal coming from thirty miles away (pity, because Tychus was a bro) and the "lol, Kerrigan is [spoiler] again" was kind of stupid.  On top of that, I hate cliffhangers, but if Bliz wants to make mo' monies by splitting a sequel into thirds, so be it.  Rest of the game was good, at least.

Seriously, I don't understand the question.  PM me to prevent thread derailing?

EDIT: Heehee, Team America.  I still don't get what point you're trying to make, though.

Modifié par AdmiralCheez, 18 décembre 2010 - 03:40 .

[Cerberus Operative Ashley Williams]

What is stupid about the whole suicide mission is this so-called "loyalty shield." Last time I checked, your feelings towards your leader doesn't stop a bullet to the face. The suicide mission makes the PC in control of every minute detail, including who will catch a bullet and who won't. Shepard is just a man. He can't possibly have that much control over things. Yet ME2 Shepard is omnipotent.



Honestly, how much would Virmire have been cheapened if you could have done loyalty missions for Ash and Kaiden before that and had the option to save them both?



Easy answer: it would have been an emotionless part of the game. There was a recent thread talking about the most emotional moment in the ME series. It seemed everyone was saying Virmire. That's funny because that's the only part of the series where someone close to you has to die.

[Kane-Corr]

You know what I want to know....what ever happened to if your squadmate isn't loyal then they can betray you thing? I thoroughly remember months before the release of ME2 the developers actually said that your squadmates can betray you in the suicide mission. THAT was what put the edge on for me. I was so paranoid about brining Jack along and all. Thought she was gonna go AWOL. Honestly...I was dissapointed that they took that whole feature out.

[AdmiralCheez]

@Cerberus Op. Williams: Actually, the "loyalty shield" is explained by saying "your teammate's heads are clear and they aren't letting any regrets or emotional baggage drag them down." Or something. Cheap, but it's a video game mechanic.  And you can still get them killed if you're stupid about it.

As for Virmire, I never got that attached to Kaishley Willenko enough to really care. The Wrex thing was a big deal, though, but that's because I cared about him. And he even had a loyalty quest that made saving him easier!  Really, it comes down to which characters resonated better with which players.

Besides, repeating the Virmire decision would be cheap. Bioware tried something else this time around. Not everyone liked it, but at least it was different.

Modifié par AdmiralCheez, 18 décembre 2010 - 03:54 .

[aeetos21]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

aeetos21 wrote...

Aristotle had his own opinions, mostly in dealing with science which is based more in logic and fact but if he wasn't as prominent, opinionated, and influential then there'd be little grounds to charge the man and try to place him on trial.

I think you're mixing Aristotle with Socrates.

Socrates stood trial, found guilty, and drank hemlock. Aristotle is more of a mythic ending. Some people think he went the same way as Socrates but there's strong evidence that indicates he fled before trial and again either took his own life (maybe hemlock) or through heart complications - the guy was seventy after all.

Edit: @Kane, I remember that too! Everyone was talking about who would betray who and they were all thinking that if anyone would it'd be Miranda given her loyalty to Cerberus and several were thinking of killing TIM first chance the got. In the end... well this a no spoiler thread

Modifié par aeetos21, 18 décembre 2010 - 03:58 .

[Zulu_DFA]

AdmiralCheez wrote...

I actually thought SC2's ending was crap, but that's mostly because you saw the betrayal coming from thirty miles away (pity, because Tychus was a bro) and the "lol, Kerrigan is [spoiler] again" was kind of stupid.  On top of that, I hate cliffhangers, but if Bliz wants to make mo' monies by splitting a sequel into thirds, so be it.  Rest of the game was good, at least.

And I think that SC2's story owns the ME2 story, because it makes you witness Tychus slowly realising that he is in that catch-22 situation and taking his chances with Little Jimmy in the end, and Jimmy betraying his buddy over his LI on the grounds that she is a key to save the Galaxy (which BTW may be sort of a drunken dream of his).

As for Kerrigan's [spoiler], I've seen it for eleven years coming. So I am quite at peace with it.

AdmiralCheez wrote...

EDIT: Heehee, Team America.  I still don't get what point you're trying to make, though.

My point is that Mass Effect 2 carries a lot of traits inherent with the satiric comedy genre, and the possibility to make it out with no casualties from a "suicide mission" is one of those. Only if I honsetly thought it was intentional, I would actually applaude BioWare, at least for making fools of everybody. As it is, I think they've only made fools of themselves. But they don't seem to care as long as the money keep flowing.

[Zulu_DFA]

aeetos21 wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

aeetos21 wrote...

Aristotle had his own opinions, mostly in dealing with science which is based more in logic and fact but if he wasn't as prominent, opinionated, and influential then there'd be little grounds to charge the man and try to place him on trial.

I think you're mixing Aristotle with Socrates.

Socrates stood trial, found guilty, and drank hemlock. Aristotle is more of a mythic ending. Some people think he went the same way as Socrates but there's strong evidence that indicates he fled before trial and again either took his own life (maybe hemlock) or through heart complications - the guy was seventy after all.

Well, thank you, I remember now. Even the charges he was about to face were the same as Socrates, and he even said that by fleeing he did the Athenians a favor.

Athenians were fond of putting the best of their own on trial... Shepard's trial, anyone?

[AdmiralCheez]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

And I think that SC2's story owns the ME2 story, because it makes you witness Tychus slowly realising that he is in that catch-22 situation and taking his chances with Little Jimmy in the end, and Jimmy betraying his buddy over his LI on the grounds that she is a key to save the Galaxy (which BTW may be sort of a drunken dream of his).

Oh sure, Tychus was a great character, no arguments there.  But what does this have to do with anything?  Seriously, is this another one of your "SC2 is the best game evur" thingamajigs?  Cuz this ain't no SC2 forum, and talking about how good one game is isn't going to make me dislike another.  PM me if you want to further talk StarCrafty things.

As for Kerrigan's [spoiler], I've seen it for eleven years coming. So I am quite at peace with it.

It was still kind of stupid.  As someone who's waiting over a decade for that game, I was let down.  It was way easier to "make peace" with ME2's flaws.  Well, except for the bringing Shep back from the dead thing, but you don't seem to think he ever actually died in the first place.  Yay for the Mako.

My point is that Mass Effect 2 carries a lot of traits inherent with the satiric comedy genre, and the possibility to make it out with no casualties from a "suicide mission" is one of those. Only if I honsetly thought it was intentional, I would actually applaude BioWare, at least for making fools of everybody. As it is, I think they've only made fools of themselves. But they don't seem to care as long as the money keep flowing.

You know, when most people go into something thinking they are about to die and come out alive, they're happy about it.  Seriously, dude, when it says PROVE THEM WRONG on the back of the damn box...

Whatever.  Like I said, PM me if you want to drag this out more.  No need to hijack someone else's thread.

Modifié par AdmiralCheez, 18 décembre 2010 - 04:28 .