119 réponses à ce sujet

[RGC_Ines]

Bocks

Well, In my first playthrought, thanks to this forum, no one died during suicide mission. Next time when I played I killed ( I planned it with cold blood) Miranda and Jacob, becouse I really don't like them and I don't want to see them in my ME3 again. Also I agree with those players, who said that " no one died" in a suicide mission don't sound too reliably. You are worry about Bio meter, and that they will not include some characters into ME3..Don't worry, judging after re-unions ( especially Horizon part) from ME2 it will be not so big deal anyway. Plus don't forget, that BioWare will make ME3 with completly new players in theirs minds also, who never ever heard about Jack, Miranda, Jacob etc, so don't keep yours hope too high..

[AdmiralCheez]

@Da_Lion_Man: I think they built it up so much to be a "suicide mission" so that the player would feel awesome after trumping such "impossible" odds.  Also, it says "PROVE THEM WRONG" on the back of the box, hint-hint. I mean seriously, they were kind of making it obvious that you are supposed to kick ass and take names. If they wanted people to die fo' realz, they wouldn't have thrown the suicide mission thing in your face so much. Consider Virmire: you were entirely focused on stopping Saren and didn't ever consider the odds against you, and then suddenly SURPRISE your dudes are dying. It was never hinted at that one of your crew was going to bite it, save for one conversation in an elevator in which Wrex and Kaidan discussed their own mortality.

Modifié par AdmiralCheez, 19 décembre 2010 - 06:52 .

[Alphyn]

Um... anyway, I think it's best that I leave this discussion before I get a panic attack.

[Fiery Phoenix]

Alphyn wrote...

Um... anyway, I think it's best that I leave this discussion before I get a panic attack.

[Da_Lion_Man]

AdmiralCheez wrote...

@Da_Lion_Man: I think they built it up so much to be a "suicide mission" so that the player would feel awesome after trumping such "impossible" odds.  Also, it says "PROVE THEM WRONG" on the back of the box, hint-hint. I mean seriously, they were kind of making it obvious that you are supposed to kick ass and take names. If they wanted people to die fo' realz, they wouldn't have thrown the suicide mission thing in your face so much. Consider Virmire: you were entirely focused on stopping Saren and didn't ever consider the odds against you, and then suddenly SURPRISE your dudes are dying. It was never hinted at that one of your crew was going to bite it, save for one conversation in an elevator in which Wrex and Kaidan discussed their own mortality.

I guess it would make sense, giving the player an awesome feeling when completing the SM. But still, wouldn't it have been far more satisfying if the SM was harder? Pretty much everyone survives the suicide mission with less than 3 squad members dead, a large part of the players probably didn't lose anyone at all. The SM was constantly talked about in-game and it was rather intimidating before you started. It shouldn't be easy, it just feels wrong, especially since Bioware promoted the story to be darker than the original game yet you can easily get out with no one scratched.

Of course that would be a problem for the more casual gamers but still, I don't believe casual gamers want really everything in their game to be easy. Heck, I'm more of a casual gamer, I get more easily frustrated than your average Joe and I too like a challenge every once in a while.

SM could've been a very intense experience and it kind of was the first time. But now I just feel it hasn't reached its potential yet and that's a shame.

[ObserverStatus]

A lot of people say that it is immature to kill off teammates in mass effect, even if you don't like them, but I think Renegade Shepard has a legitimate reason to kill Samara.

[Da_Lion_Man]

bobobo878 wrote...

A lot of people say that it is immature to kill off teammates in mass effect, even if you don't like them, but I think Renegade Shepard has a legitimate reason to kill Samara.

I honestly don't see how it's immature. Okay, killing someone off solely because you hate him/her might be a bit immature but other than that, I don't see the problem.

Modifié par Da_Lion_Man, 20 décembre 2010 - 12:45 .

[AdmiralCheez]

@Da_Lion_Man: True, it could have been harder. But, as it was, you mess up one thing, and that squadmate is dead. Assign the wrong person? Dead. Forget to upgrade? Dead. Skip or screw up a loyalty mission? Dead. Really, the only ways they could've made it harder would to have upped the paragon/renegade requirements for certain missions (which people would complain about), made more decisions and upgrades for the SM (which would be repetitive), or made said decisions more vague and nuanced (which they could have and should have done, but they can fix that in ME3). Randomizing things would just be ragequit-inducing, as no one wants their achievements to rely on a coin flip. And remember that there was also combat involved, which can he hella hard for some people, especially when you up the difficulty (except for the incredibly embarrassing boss fight, which was only difficult because that bastard moved around too much).



I just beat ME2 again last night, actually, and my heart was pounding the whole time. The thrill is still there, regardless of how many squaddies die. Saved them all again because I can't help myself, but I'll try to get one save where everyone's toast except for two people. I'll have to close my eyes and cover my ears to do it since I'm such a wimp about it, but I really want to see how screwed I am in ME3 if my only survivors are Morinth and Kasumi.

[Sir Ulrich Von Lichenstien]

@Admiral one of your comments isn't entirely true but I won't mention what it is due to what forum this topic is in. But might be a good idea if kept the comments about the SM down to a minimum here too

[AdmiralCheez]

@Ulrich: Yeah, I was generalizing. Can't mention the exceptions to the rule without giving stuff away.

[vonBlitzkrieg]

On my first run through all my team survived. On subsequent run throughs I purposely let some characters die. What would be the fun if all of my saves were perfect games? When I play through ME3 multiple times (which I inevitable will), I want the saves I import to be different. After all, this is a game not real life. Making the smartest decisions isn't always the most fun thing to do.

[g-w-m]

The point of this thread is pretty unusual..

Why do you care so much if squaddies die in other people's playthroughs?

My first play I did everything right & everyone survived, coz I just played through it as an RPG. A recent playthrough on hardcore had me loose both cerberus squaddies, mainly due to a disloyalty stemming from not having enough Para points to settle an argument. So knowing how to load the squad out in the SM, i strategically picked certain roles to save a particular team member at the sacrifice of another that I didn't really like.

Without posting any spoilers, I lost 2 squaddies by trying to manipulate who I could sacrifice due to disloyalty. BUT I figure, "hey, its only being realistic. It was a SUICIDE mission after all".

Modifié par g-w-m, 20 décembre 2010 - 09:43 .

[netfire_]

**** **** ****.

[CaptainZaysh]

Bocks wrote...

Back on topic, I don't understand the reasoning behind the "it makes sense for people to die" argument, either. Shepard's a leader. S/he's born to tackle tasks that are EXACTLY like this. For my Shepard, it goes against the promise of never losing another man under his command again, something which he has yet to do again, and probably never will.

A squad leader who can't accept casualties is combat ineffective.

[FlintlockJazz]

Just one thing for those who say that at least one character should die due to it being a suicide mission to consider: on the back of the box it states "Everyone thinks it's a suicide mission. Prove them wrong!" If that didn't indicate the dev's intentions then I don't know what does...

Modifié par FlintlockJazz, 20 décembre 2010 - 01:43 .

[Cloaking_Thane]

Didnt read everything, but RE: your HP reference, yes I think most of the characters needed to die in that to set the tone/realities of the novel and the threat they were facing



Sirius, Dumbledore, Hedwig, Dobby, Lupin, Fred (or George) were all chars you had an opinion about (generally people liked them).



Really think that is a poor analogy

[Sir Ulrich Von Lichenstien]

FlintlockJazz wrote...

Just one thing for those who say that at least one character should die due to it being a suicide mission to consider: on the back of the box it states "Everyone thinks it's a suicide mission. Prove them wrong!" If that didn't indicate the dev's intentions then I don't know what does...

When I look at that, I just think of it as in... "Everyone thinks no one will make it back alive, prove them wrong" which is further pointed out by what Thane says when you first meet him "Getting to the Collectors means passing through the Omega-4 Relay, no ship has ever returned from doing so"

So basically put, even those of us who do have people dying in it, are still proving the ones who think it is a suicide mission wrong. If it was supposed to be what you are saying it would be "Everyone expects you'll have casualties on this mission, prove them wrong." now you could argue in that, that doesn't exactly make the mission sound so exciting and loses the tension that the sentence they used, but basically the tagline in my opinion was more was to do with Shepard getting out alive than the whole squad. Yes there is the 'achievement' for getting the whole squad, but that means nothing really.

[Bocks]

CaptainZaysh wrote...

Bocks wrote...

Back on topic, I don't understand the reasoning behind the "it makes sense for people to die" argument, either. Shepard's a leader. S/he's born to tackle tasks that are EXACTLY like this. For my Shepard, it goes against the promise of never losing another man under his command again, something which he has yet to do again, and probably never will.

A squad leader who can't accept casualties is combat ineffective.

Or perhaps he's just so determined, focused, strong and effective that no one ever dies. Just like a leader should be.

Just like the man or woman that should save the universe should be. For me, at any rate, this is what Shepard would be like.

[CaptainZaysh]

Bocks wrote...

Or perhaps he's just so determined, focused, strong and effective that no one ever dies. Just like a leader should be.

Just like the man or woman that should save the universe should be. For me, at any rate, this is what Shepard would be like.

Doesn't matter how determined, focused, strong and effective you are.  Warfare is risky, good people die all the time, and military leaders who can't accept that are useless.

[Bocks]

CaptainZaysh wrote...

Bocks wrote...

Or perhaps he's just so determined, focused, strong and effective that no one ever dies. Just like a leader should be.

Just like the man or woman that should save the universe should be. For me, at any rate, this is what Shepard would be like.

Doesn't matter how determined, focused, strong and effective you are.  Warfare is risky, good people die all the time, and military leaders who can't accept that are useless.

...and yet my Shepard seems to have done pretty well so far.