215 réponses à ce sujet

[StarcloudSWG]

We all know the arguments. "Oh we need to keep the base to study Reaper and Collector tech!"
"No, keeping the base is bad, you cant' trust TIM!"

This is a different possible consequence.

When the Reapers return to the galaxy, one of the things they're going to do is check up on the Collector base. If it was destroyed, the Reapers will just leave the "safe pocket" where the base used to be.

If it wasn't destroyed, the Reapers will rapidly overwhelm and indoctrinate the Cerberus crew there and repair the damage to the base. The timetable for invading Earth will be moved up, because the "Reaper making machines" are still relatively intact, and the Reapers will, once they do invade Earth, gather up as many humans as possible to add to the "Baby Reaper smoothie formula".

In short, regardless of what Cerberus learns, the actual consequence of keeping the base is that the Reapers invade earlier, and cause more casualties, and give Shepard less time to mount an effective defense/assault, possibly leading to complete failure to save Earth and the rest of the galaxy.
 

Modifié par StarcloudSWG, 18 décembre 2010 - 11:00 .

[AlexXIV]

My main point is always that I don't trust TIM or Cerberus. I really don't need more reason. I would even expect TIM to work with the Collectors. After all he had alot of 'inside' information about them. And that many things he said made sense only proves for me that he is brilliant, but brilliant doesn't mean trustworthy. He could just be another Saren who tries to bargain with the Reapers so he can save his sorry ass.

[thegreateski]

Or Cerberus will find useful tech at the base and use it to help defeat the Reapers.

The Reapers are also going to have to attack through the Mass Relay and the ship-graveyard.

We've already seen how deadly the Thanix cannon is. I'm sure Cerberus will have a few of them hanging around outside the Collector base. If push comes to shove then they can just destroy the base in the same manner as the Paragon!ending.

Modifié par thegreateski, 18 décembre 2010 - 11:14 .

[Mr. Gogeta34]

When the Reapers get close, the base could be destroyed (and destroyed properly) before they get there. BUT... it would have been after we discovered and studied its secrets.

[AlexXIV]

Mr. Gogeta34 wrote...

When the Reapers get close, the base could be destroyed (and destroyed properly) before they get there. BUT... it would have been after we discovered and studied its secrets.

Which requires an illusive man willing to destroy it. And discovering all secrets or even building another would probably take decades if not more. Anyway, if you destroy it when you still can you don't need to lay the fate of the world in the hands of terrorists.

[thegreateski]

TIM isn't so stupid as to think he can fend off a Reaper assault on the base by himself.



That would just be such a monumentally stupid thing to do that it's not even mildly humorous. I don't think I could ever forgive Bioware for writing it into the game.

[shumworld]

My biggest reason for destroying the base it is because I can't live with the guilt of using such a horrible device that was made of people.

[Vaenier]

If something bad were to occur from the base, then that means it would be another mission to play through. Paragons would not have access to this mission. Bioware does not want to give Renegade an additional mission. Thus nothing bad could go wrong.

[Cerberus Operative Ashley Williams]

AlexXIV wrote...

Mr. Gogeta34 wrote...

When the Reapers get close, the base could be destroyed (and destroyed properly) before they get there. BUT... it would have been after we discovered and studied its secrets.

Which requires an illusive man willing to destroy it. And discovering all secrets or even building another would probably take decades if not more. Anyway, if you destroy it when you still can you don't need to lay the fate of the world in the hands of terrorists.

Name a single act of terrorism committed by Cerberus.

[Mr. Gogeta34]

AlexXIV wrote...

Mr. Gogeta34 wrote...

When the Reapers get close, the base could be destroyed (and destroyed properly) before they get there. BUT... it would have been after we discovered and studied its secrets.

Which requires an illusive man willing to destroy it. And discovering all secrets or even building another would probably take decades if not more. Anyway, if you destroy it when you still can you don't need to lay the fate of the world in the hands of terrorists.

Any secrets or insights toward stopping the Reapers is better than none. Their cycle works because victims understood nothing until it was too late.

Also, the fate of the world is in the hands of everyone, criminal (Jack, Thane, TIM, Miranda?) and hero (Shepard, Anderson?) alike. We'll all need to work together to simply survive.

We've already worked with Cerberus and used technology above anything the Alliance/Council has (or is willing to use) right now.

And worse-case scenario, tyrants can be overthrown... extinction cannot be undone.

Modifié par Mr. Gogeta34, 18 décembre 2010 - 11:25 .

[Zulu_DFA]

StarcloudSWG wrote...

If it wasn't destroyed, the Reapers
will rapidly overwhelm and indoctrinate the Cerberus crew there and
repair the damage to the base.

I'm afraid a bit of an unpleasant surprise will be waiting the Reapers at the Omega-4 relay. Their IFF will be void.

Modifié par Zulu_DFA, 18 décembre 2010 - 11:26 .

[thegreateski]

Cerberus Operative Ashley Williams wrote...

AlexXIV wrote...

Mr. Gogeta34 wrote...

When the Reapers get close, the base could be destroyed (and destroyed properly) before they get there. BUT... it would have been after we discovered and studied its secrets.

Which requires an illusive man willing to destroy it. And discovering all secrets or even building another would probably take decades if not more. Anyway, if you destroy it when you still can you don't need to lay the fate of the world in the hands of terrorists.

Name a single act of terrorism committed by Cerberus.

Hell. I like Cereberus and I can do that.

The destruction of a migrant fleet ship.

[supakillaii]

thegreateski wrote...

Or Cerberus will find useful tech at the base and use it to help defeat the Reapers.

The Reapers are also going to have to attack through the Mass Relay and the ship-graveyard.

We've already seen how deadly the Thanix cannon is. I'm sure Cerberus will have a few of them hanging around outside the Collector base. If push comes to shove then they can just destroy the base in the same manner as the Paragon!ending.

Have to remember that Colelctor vessel didn't have shields. With shields, Old Machines are about invincible.

[luakel]

thegreateski wrote...

TIM isn't so stupid as to think he can fend off a Reaper assault on the base by himself.

He's not stupid enough to think that. But I think it's definitely in his character to keep the base as long as he can, even once the risk of it falling becomes clear. After all, based on the survival rate of all the Cerberus operations we've seen, TIM certainly doesn't care if everyone sent to research the base gets blown up along with it, right? I bet his plan is to get every last bit of Reaper/Collector tech out of there, and if/when the Reapers show up to take the base back, blow it up and hopefully take one or two of them with it.

Cerberus Operative Ashley Williams wrote...

Name a single act of terrorism committed by Cerberus.

They financed the assassination of two Earth presidents. If assassination doesn't count as terrorism, they sabotaged a turian ship to blow it up.

Modifié par luakel, 18 décembre 2010 - 11:31 .

[Vaenier]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

I'm afraid a bit of a surprise will wait the Reapers at the Omega-4 relay. Their IFF will be void.

That would be awsome. Swap keys on them. I would love to see them jump right into a black hole.

My fall back is to blow up the base, collapsing the stable space there around the relay, taking out any Reapers in the area.

[Dean_the_Young]

StarcloudSWG wrote...

We all know the arguments. "Oh we need to keep the base to study Reaper and Collector tech!"
"No, keeping the base is bad, you cant' trust TIM!"

This is a different possible consequence.

When the Reapers return to the galaxy, one of the things they're going to do is check up on the Collector base. If it was destroyed, the Reapers will just leave the "safe pocket" where the base used to be.

If it wasn't destroyed, the Reapers will rapidly overwhelm and indoctrinate the Cerberus crew there and repair the damage to the base. The timetable for invading Earth will be moved up, because the "Reaper making machines" are still relatively intact, and the Reapers will, once they do invade Earth, gather up as many humans as possible to add to the "Baby Reaper smoothie formula".

In short, regardless of what Cerberus learns, the actual consequence of keeping the base is that the Reapers invade earlier, and cause more casualties, and give Shepard less time to mount an effective defense/assault, possibly leading to complete failure to save Earth and the rest of the galaxy.
 

...yes, because one Human Reaper, which can only be made after the War's already won (lost) in regard to the Humans, is going to tip the scales of the armada of Reapers and their war to beat the humans.

And because the Reapers can't just rebuild the Base if you destroy it.

[Mr. Gogeta34]

If the Reapers show up at the base and begin sending people in, it actually could be defended... but even if all seems hopeless, they can still destroy the base (people would be inside to initiate the detonation and I doubt TIM wouldn't have that contingency in place). This is especially considering that they EDI likely discovered the Reapers in dark space at the end of ME2.

[AlexXIV]

thegreateski wrote...

TIM isn't so stupid as to think he can fend off a Reaper assault on the base by himself.

That would just be such a monumentally stupid thing to do that it's not even mildly humorous. I don't think I could ever forgive Bioware for writing it into the game.

I have never played the suicide mission as a fail on purpose. But I saw a youtube vid. When the illusive man gets the info that shep and everyone is dead he says it is regrettable but that they will still win. Then he looks at the scematics of the station and grins.

For the illusive man people are tools like any other tool. And for him the base is probably the most important tool of all. More important than shepard or any of his people. Also I am pretty sure you can beat the Reapers without the station in ME3.

I think if the illusive man gets it, he will use it. And for that he will need to do the same thing the Reapers did. Process alot of humans into this thing to create a Reaper.

[thegreateski]

supakillaii wrote...

thegreateski wrote...

Or Cerberus will find useful tech at the base and use it to help defeat the Reapers.

The Reapers are also going to have to attack through the Mass Relay and the ship-graveyard.

We've already seen how deadly the Thanix cannon is. I'm sure Cerberus will have a few of them hanging around outside the Collector base. If push comes to shove then they can just destroy the base in the same manner as the Paragon!ending.

Have to remember that Colelctor vessel didn't have shields. With shields, Old Machines are about invincible.

Joker and the Arcturus fleet killed Soverign. I imagine that a fleet outfitted with Thanix cannons would fare significantly better.

[Mr. Gogeta34]

thegreateski wrote...

supakillaii wrote...

thegreateski wrote...

Or Cerberus will find useful tech at the base and use it to help defeat the Reapers.

The Reapers are also going to have to attack through the Mass Relay and the ship-graveyard.

We've already seen how deadly the Thanix cannon is. I'm sure Cerberus will have a few of them hanging around outside the Collector base. If push comes to shove then they can just destroy the base in the same manner as the Paragon!ending.

Have to remember that Colelctor vessel didn't have shields. With shields, Old Machines are about invincible.

Joker and the Arcturus fleet killed Soverign. I imagine that a fleet outfitted with Thanix cannons would fare significantly better.

Only after the Reaper itself is dead.  They only destroyed Sovereign's dead body... which could have been used for study had they have known Sovereign had been defeated already... by Shepard

Modifié par Mr. Gogeta34, 18 décembre 2010 - 11:33 .

[Cerberus Operative Ashley Williams]

thegreateski wrote...

Cerberus Operative Ashley Williams wrote...

AlexXIV wrote...

Mr. Gogeta34 wrote...

When the Reapers get close, the base could be destroyed (and destroyed properly) before they get there. BUT... it would have been after we discovered and studied its secrets.

Which requires an illusive man willing to destroy it. And discovering all secrets or even building another would probably take decades if not more. Anyway, if you destroy it when you still can you don't need to lay the fate of the world in the hands of terrorists.

Name a single act of terrorism committed by Cerberus.

Hell. I like Cereberus and I can do that.

The destruction of a migrant fleet ship.

No migrant fleet ship was destroyed (they disarmed the bombs).

They were harboring an enemy of Cerberus.

The attack was not intended to invoke fear in the Migrant fleet or anywhere for that matter.

That incident in no way qualifies as terrorism.

[Vaenier]

Mr. Gogeta34 wrote...

Only after the Reaper itself is dead.  They only destroyed Sovereign's dead body... which could have been used for study had they have known Sovereign had been defeated already... by Shepard

That is dumb. Killing a remote controlled husk is not killing a reaper. That does not even make sense. It is nothing more than dramatic story telling.

[Mr. Gogeta34]

Yeah the Migrant fleet attack wasn't terrorism, it was a recon/search and rescue mission at best. But there are others that are definitely acts of terrorism (like the assassination of a pope, but no one knows the story regarding that one or how justified that action really was)

[supakillaii]

Cerberus deliberately destroyed a settlement on Chasca by turning the colonial pioneer team there into Husks.
Akuze.

Modifié par supakillaii, 18 décembre 2010 - 11:35 .

[thegreateski]

AlexXIV wrote...
I think if the illusive man gets it, he will use it. And for that he will need to do the same thing the Reapers did. Process alot of humans into this thing to create a Reaper.

I disagree completely. It took the Collectors roughly 2 years to progress as far as they had and according to EDI they still had a long way to go.

I don't believe we're going to have 2 years of waiting time before the Reapers show up . . . and a Reaper fetus isn't going to be much help in battle.