215 réponses à ce sujet

[AlexXIV]

Cerberus Operative Ashley Williams wrote...

AlexXIV wrote...

Mr. Gogeta34 wrote...

When the Reapers get close, the base could be destroyed (and destroyed properly) before they get there. BUT... it would have been after we discovered and studied its secrets.

Which requires an illusive man willing to destroy it. And discovering all secrets or even building another would probably take decades if not more. Anyway, if you destroy it when you still can you don't need to lay the fate of the world in the hands of terrorists.

Name a single act of terrorism committed by Cerberus.

Have you played ME1? Illegal researches, killing Alliance soldiers, using people as test objects against their will. Name one act of terrorism they didn't commit.

Modifié par AlexXIV, 18 décembre 2010 - 11:36 .

[Mr. Gogeta34]

Vaenier wrote...

Mr. Gogeta34 wrote...

Only after the Reaper itself is dead.  They only destroyed Sovereign's dead body... which could have been used for study had they have known Sovereign had been defeated already... by Shepard

That is dumb. Killing a remote controlled husk is not killing a reaper. That does not even make sense. It is nothing more than dramatic story telling.

Case and point, if your brain dies, your body goes limp right?  You're "dead" even though your body is intact.  Same principle, it's not dumb when you think about it.  Sovereign had to imbed himself into Saren because Saren was dead (indoctrination only works when you're still alive).

[Legbiter]

Shepard handed Joker that datapad after the Collector base mission. So whatever data was on it is the one that'll be absolutely crucial in ME 3.

As for keeping the base...I dunno, maybe Cerberus melts the rest of humanity in the Terminus into grey goo to make their own personal Cerberus Reaper which can join Shepard in ME 3.

Both Paragons and Renegades will get brownie points, either way.

Modifié par Legbiter, 18 décembre 2010 - 11:39 .

[Vaenier]

Mr. Gogeta34 wrote...

Vaenier wrote...

Mr. Gogeta34 wrote...

Only after the Reaper itself is dead.  They only destroyed Sovereign's dead body... which could have been used for study had they have known Sovereign had been defeated already... by Shepard

That is dumb. Killing a remote controlled husk is not killing a reaper. That does not even make sense. It is nothing more than dramatic story telling.

Case and point, if your brain dies, your body goes limp right?  You're "dead" even though your body is intact.  Same principle, it's not dumb when you think about it.  Sovereign had to imbed himself into Saren because Saren was dead (indoctrination only works when you're still alive).

You didnt kill a brain though, you killed a remote controlled drone. and it didnt matter he was dead, he was remote controlling the implants. his brain couldnt even fit in saren probably.

[Mr. Gogeta34]

Legbiter wrote...

Shepard handed Joker that datapad after the Collector base mission. So whatever data was on it is the one that'll be absolutely crucial in ME 3.

As for keeping the base...I dunno, maybe Cerberus melts the rest of humanity in the Terminus into grey goo to make their own personal Cerberus Reaper which can join Shepard in ME 3.

That would go against everything TIM and Cerberus stand for.  Lets not confuse TIM with a Reaper.  The Reapers want to turn the rest of humanity into "grey goo."

[Vaenier]

Legbiter wrote...

Shepard handed Joker that datapad after the Collector base mission. So whatever data was on it is the one that'll be absolutely crucial in ME 3.

As for keeping the base...I dunno, maybe Cerberus melts the rest of humanity in the Terminus into grey goo to make their own personal Cerberus Reaper which can join Shepard in ME 3.

It is sad how many people cant get past this idea. There is more to do than just melt people...

It does explain their choice though...

[Cerberus Operative Ashley Williams]

luakel wrote...

Cerberus Operative Ashley Williams wrote...

Name a single act of terrorism committed by Cerberus.

They financed the assassination of two Earth presidents. If assassination doesn't count as terrorism, they sabotaged a turian ship to blow it up.

Covert assassinations are not acts of terrorism. They are exactly the sort of things black ops organizations do. Terrorism is all about arousing fear in the public. Cerberus was just offing people they perceived as a threat to their interests. Unethical? Debate that if you will, but it is not terrorism.

They blew up that ship in order to take out a high ranking member of the Turian military IIRC.

[luakel]

Vaenier wrote...
That is dumb. Killing a remote controlled
husk is not killing a reaper. That does not even make sense. It is
nothing more than dramatic story telling.

I think all
that killing Saren did was throw Sovereign off balance; it fell off of
the Citadel tower and its weak points were vulnerable to the Normandy's
weapons.

Mr. Gogeta34 wrote...
But there are others that are definitely acts of terrorism (like the assassination of a pope, but no one knows the story regarding that one or how justified that action really was)

The main motive behind all the assassinations in the Shadow Broker dossier seems to be that either they're an alien who hates humans, or they're a human whose replacement will be a) easier to control, or more pro-human.

[thegreateski]

Cerberus Operative Ashley Williams wrote...

luakel wrote...

Cerberus Operative Ashley Williams wrote...

Name a single act of terrorism committed by Cerberus.

They financed the assassination of two Earth presidents. If assassination doesn't count as terrorism, they sabotaged a turian ship to blow it up.

Covert assassinations are not acts of terrorism. They are exactly the sort of things black ops organizations do. Terrorism is all about arousing fear in the public. Cerberus was just offing people they perceived as a threat to their interests. Unethical? Debate that if you will, but it is not terrorism.

They blew up that ship in order to take out a high ranking member of the Turian military IIRC.

You're discussing semantics now. Nobody will win this argument.

[AlexXIV]

Cerberus Operative Ashley Williams wrote...

luakel wrote...

Cerberus Operative Ashley Williams wrote...

Name a single act of terrorism committed by Cerberus.

They financed the assassination of two Earth presidents. If assassination doesn't count as terrorism, they sabotaged a turian ship to blow it up.

Covert assassinations are not acts of terrorism. They are exactly the sort of things black ops organizations do. Terrorism is all about arousing fear in the public. Cerberus was just offing people they perceived as a threat to their interests. Unethical? Debate that if you will, but it is not terrorism.

They blew up that ship in order to take out a high ranking member of the Turian military IIRC.

Blacks ops work for a government. Cerberus is an illegal organisation to begin with. How could they possibly justify anything they do?

[Mr. Gogeta34]

Vaenier wrote...

You didnt kill a brain though, you killed a remote controlled drone. and it didnt matter he was dead, he was remote controlling the implants. his brain couldnt even fit in saren probably.

Yeah you did.  Sovereign was essentially a program piloting a vessel.  This wasn't remote-control, it was manual control.  Real-world scenario:  The fighter pilot actually got into the cockpit (from his mothersihp) to drive the land vehicle and didn't eject before the land vehicle exploded.  Consequently, the pilot was killed and the mothership was vulnerable (as he was the only pilot).

[Zulu_DFA]

AlexXIV wrote...

Cerberus Operative Ashley Williams wrote...

luakel wrote...

Cerberus Operative Ashley Williams wrote...

Name a single act of terrorism committed by Cerberus.

They financed the assassination of two Earth presidents. If assassination doesn't count as terrorism, they sabotaged a turian ship to blow it up.

Covert assassinations are not acts of terrorism. They are exactly the sort of things black ops organizations do. Terrorism is all about arousing fear in the public. Cerberus was just offing people they perceived as a threat to their interests. Unethical? Debate that if you will, but it is not terrorism.

They blew up that ship in order to take out a high ranking member of the Turian military IIRC.

Blacks ops work for a government. Cerberus is an illegal organisation to begin with. How could they possibly justify anything they do?

Cerberus works for the Alliance. Does their dirty work, so that the Alliance can keep their hands clean.

Modifié par Zulu_DFA, 18 décembre 2010 - 11:45 .

[thegreateski]

Mr. Gogeta34 wrote...

Vaenier wrote...

You didnt kill a brain though, you killed a remote controlled drone. and it didnt matter he was dead, he was remote controlling the implants. his brain couldnt even fit in saren probably.

Yeah you did.  Sovereign was essentially a program piloting a vessel.  This wasn't remote-control, it was manual control.  Real-world scenario:  The fighter pilot actually got into the cockpit (from his mothersihp) to drive the land vehicle and didn't eject before the land vehicle exploded.  Consequently, the pilot was killed and the mothership was vulnerable (as he was the only pilot).

Then why doesn't Harbinger "die" everytime we "kill" him?

[Cerberus Operative Ashley Williams]

AlexXIV wrote...

Cerberus Operative Ashley Williams wrote...

AlexXIV wrote...

Mr. Gogeta34 wrote...

When the Reapers get close, the base could be destroyed (and destroyed properly) before they get there. BUT... it would have been after we discovered and studied its secrets.

Which requires an illusive man willing to destroy it. And discovering all secrets or even building another would probably take decades if not more. Anyway, if you destroy it when you still can you don't need to lay the fate of the world in the hands of terrorists.

Name a single act of terrorism committed by Cerberus.

Have you played ME1? Illegal researches, killing Alliance soldiers, using people as test objects against their will. Name one act of terrorism they didn't commit.

Go look up an actual definition of terrorism. Terrorism is not "doing bad things." Terrorism is a tactic that relies on publicity in order to invoke fear in the hearts of those that witness your actions. Cerberus' actions are covert. They are not terrorists.

[AlexXIV]

Mr. Gogeta34 wrote...

Vaenier wrote...

You didnt kill a brain though, you killed a remote controlled drone. and it didnt matter he was dead, he was remote controlling the implants. his brain couldnt even fit in saren probably.

Yeah you did.  Sovereign was essentially a program piloting a vessel.  This wasn't remote-control, it was manual control.  Real-world scenario:  The fighter pilot actually got into the cockpit (from his mothersihp) to drive the land vehicle and didn't eject before the land vehicle exploded.  Consequently, the pilot was killed and the mothership was vulnerable (as he was the only pilot).

Sovereign didn't transfer his brain into Saren though, it was still in the the Reaper-ship thing. I think Sovereign merely exhausted his ressouces by fighting Shep, so the Alliance had it easier to destroy him.

[Vaenier]

Mr. Gogeta34 wrote...

Vaenier wrote...

You didnt kill a brain though, you killed a remote controlled drone. and it didnt matter he was dead, he was remote controlling the implants. his brain couldnt even fit in saren probably.

Yeah you did.  Sovereign was essentially a program piloting a vessel.  This wasn't remote-control, it was manual control.  Real-world scenario:  The fighter pilot actually got into the cockpit (from his mothersihp) to drive the land vehicle and didn't eject before the land vehicle exploded.  Consequently, the pilot was killed and the mothership was vulnerable (as he was the only pilot).

That is just stupid.

Why get out of the Reaper when remote control is exactly the same...

Nevermind, I already lost faith in Bioware writing a long time ago.

[philiposophy]

AlexXIV wrote...

Cerberus Operative Ashley Williams wrote...

luakel wrote...

Cerberus Operative Ashley Williams wrote...

Name a single act of terrorism committed by Cerberus.

They financed the assassination of two Earth presidents. If assassination doesn't count as terrorism, they sabotaged a turian ship to blow it up.

Covert assassinations are not acts of terrorism. They are exactly the sort of things black ops organizations do. Terrorism is all about arousing fear in the public. Cerberus was just offing people they perceived as a threat to their interests. Unethical? Debate that if you will, but it is not terrorism.

They blew up that ship in order to take out a high ranking member of the Turian military IIRC.

Blacks ops work for a government. Cerberus is an illegal organisation to begin with. How could they possibly justify anything they do?

Cerberus was an Alliance black ops group until 2183.

[AlexXIV]

Cerberus Operative Ashley Williams wrote...

AlexXIV wrote...

Cerberus Operative Ashley Williams wrote...

AlexXIV wrote...

Mr. Gogeta34 wrote...

When the Reapers get close, the base could be destroyed (and destroyed properly) before they get there. BUT... it would have been after we discovered and studied its secrets.

Which requires an illusive man willing to destroy it. And discovering all secrets or even building another would probably take decades if not more. Anyway, if you destroy it when you still can you don't need to lay the fate of the world in the hands of terrorists.

Name a single act of terrorism committed by Cerberus.

Have you played ME1? Illegal researches, killing Alliance soldiers, using people as test objects against their will. Name one act of terrorism they didn't commit.

Go look up an actual definition of terrorism. Terrorism is not "doing bad things." Terrorism is a tactic that relies on publicity in order to invoke fear in the hearts of those that witness your actions. Cerberus' actions are covert. They are not terrorists.

People fear Cerberus, and they call them terrorists. Shepard does and so does the council and the Alliance. I don't need to look up the definition but maybe you should.

[Vaenier]

philiposophy wrote...

AlexXIV wrote...

Cerberus Operative Ashley Williams wrote...

luakel wrote...

Cerberus Operative Ashley Williams wrote...

Name a single act of terrorism committed by Cerberus.

They financed the assassination of two Earth presidents. If assassination doesn't count as terrorism, they sabotaged a turian ship to blow it up.

Covert assassinations are not acts of terrorism. They are exactly the sort of things black ops organizations do. Terrorism is all about arousing fear in the public. Cerberus was just offing people they perceived as a threat to their interests. Unethical? Debate that if you will, but it is not terrorism.

They blew up that ship in order to take out a high ranking member of the Turian military IIRC.

Blacks ops work for a government. Cerberus is an illegal organisation to begin with. How could they possibly justify anything they do?

Cerberus was an Alliance black ops group until 2183.

It arguably still is, just no longer with any oversight, but still funded by Alliance officials.

[Mr. Gogeta34]

thegreateski wrote...

Then why doesn't Harbinger "die" everytime we "kill" him?

Because you never "kill" Harbinger.  The Collectors aren't some indoctrinated group of people.  They are creatures BUILT specifically by the reapers to be remote-controlled by the Collector General which was BUILT to be controlled by Harbinger.

Saren is a Turian, not to be considered equal to the Collectors in any way.

[AlexXIV]

Vaenier wrote...

philiposophy wrote...

AlexXIV wrote...

Cerberus Operative Ashley Williams wrote...

luakel wrote...

Cerberus Operative Ashley Williams wrote...

Name a single act of terrorism committed by Cerberus.

They financed the assassination of two Earth presidents. If assassination doesn't count as terrorism, they sabotaged a turian ship to blow it up.

Covert assassinations are not acts of terrorism. They are exactly the sort of things black ops organizations do. Terrorism is all about arousing fear in the public. Cerberus was just offing people they perceived as a threat to their interests. Unethical? Debate that if you will, but it is not terrorism.

They blew up that ship in order to take out a high ranking member of the Turian military IIRC.

Blacks ops work for a government. Cerberus is an illegal organisation to begin with. How could they possibly justify anything they do?

Cerberus was an Alliance black ops group until 2183.

It arguably still is, just no longer with any oversight, but still funded by Alliance officials.

Well then it is an ex alliance black ops which is gone rogue. Officially they are enemies of the Council.

[Vaenier]

AlexXIV wrote...

People fear Cerberus, and they call them terrorists. Shepard does and so does the council and the Alliance. I don't need to look up the definition but maybe you should.

Terrorism is the systematic use of terror especially as a means of coercion.[1] No universally agreed, legally binding, criminal law definition of terrorism currently exists.[2][3] Common definitions of terrorism refer only to those violent acts which are intended to create fear (terror), are perpetrated for a religious, political or ideological goal, deliberately target or disregard the safety of non-combatants (civilians), and are committed by non-government agencies.

Modifié par Vaenier, 18 décembre 2010 - 11:50 .

[thegreateski]

Mr. Gogeta34 wrote...

thegreateski wrote...

Then why doesn't Harbinger "die" everytime we "kill" him?

Because you never "kill" Harbinger.  The Collectors aren't some indoctrinated group of people.  They are creatures BUILT specifically by the reapers to be remote-controlled by the Collector General which was BUILT to be controlled by Harbinger.

Saren is a Turian, not to be considered equal to the Collectors in any way.

Did you miss the part where they are living beings? There is some level of indoctrination going on. Harbinger with his "ASSUMING CONTROL" nonsense is just a very visual form of this. There was no building involved.

[Mr. Gogeta34]

Vaenier wrote...

That is just stupid.

Why get out of the Reaper when remote control is exactly the same...

Nevermind, I already lost faith in Bioware writing a long time ago.

Think it through some more.  Saren DIED, he's DEAD.  YOU CANNOT REMOTE-CONTROL DEAD THINGS 
(caps are to stress points, I'm not yelling).

Heck, Harbinger can't even remote-control dead Collectors and they were built specifically to be controlled.

[AlexXIV]

Vaenier wrote...

AlexXIV wrote...

People fear Cerberus, and they call them terrorists. Shepard does and so does the council and the Alliance. I don't need to look up the definition but maybe you should.

Terrorism is the systematic use of terror especially as a means of coercion.[1] No universally agreed, legally binding, criminal law definition of terrorism currently exists.[2][3] Common definitions of terrorism refer only to those violent acts which are intended to create fear (terror), are perpetrated for a religious, political or ideological goal, deliberately target or disregard the safety of non-combatants (civilians), and are committed by non-government agencies.

And this is supposed to prove that they are not terrorists?