Morally? Yes, they are. There is no question about it.Cerberus Operative Ashley Williams wrote...
I disagree with you that Cerberus is evil, but you understand that a group that commits acts of violence != terrorist group.
Modifié par Phaedon, 19 décembre 2010 - 12:17 .
Phaedon wrote...
Traitorous ? For a rogue operative/mass murderer/terrorist, you guys really consider TIM a patriot and Kahoku and Anderson traitors.Cerberus Operative Ashley Williams wrote...
Retribution doesn't assume that the base was kept or destroyed.
As to the failure of the project, well you have the traitorous Anderson to thank for that, no TIM.
Phaedon wrote...
Morally? Yes, they are. There is no question about it.Cerberus Operative Ashley Williams wrote...
I disagree with you that Cerberus is evil, but you understand that a group that commits acts of violence != terrorist group.
As for 'terrorism', you should know that this term is not considered as bad as mass murder. Not that the morality of TIM's actions change due to a label.
Please note that:Cerberus Operative Ashley Williams wrote...
Yes, I would label the man that goes behind the Alliance's back to lead a squad of Turians into a base where there is no doubt sensitive Alliance information traitorous. Not to mention the many humans that were killed at the hands of said Turians. It was an act of treason against the Alliance and his race.
All of which humans were ruthless criminals.
Shepard is a mass murderer, every mission usually, since to commit mass murder all you have to do is kill four or more people in a short amount of timePhaedon wrote...
Morally? Yes, they are. There is no question about it.Cerberus Operative Ashley Williams wrote...
I disagree with you that Cerberus is evil, but you understand that a group that commits acts of violence != terrorist group.
As for 'terrorism', you should know that this term is not considered as bad as mass murder. Not that the morality of TIM's actions change due to a label.
You are not suposed to distinquish friend from foe based on their race. Humans and Turrians are part of an alliance, one that has grown very strong. Aiding an ally is not treason. Officially, the Alliance claims that Cerberus is rogue, thus it means they are free game. They thought they were doing the right thing by attacking a rogue operation. The Alliance just had to say not to step in to their business.Cerberus Operative Ashley Williams wrote...
Phaedon wrote...
Traitorous ? For a rogue operative/mass murderer/terrorist, you guys really consider TIM a patriot and Kahoku and Anderson traitors.Cerberus Operative Ashley Williams wrote...
Retribution doesn't assume that the base was kept or destroyed.
As to the failure of the project, well you have the traitorous Anderson to thank for that, no TIM.
Yes, I would label the man that goes behind the Alliance's back to lead a squad of Turians into a base where there is no doubt sensitive Alliance information traitorous. Not to mention the many humans that were killed at the hands of said Turians. It was an act of treason against the Alliance and his race.
Cerberus Operative Ashley Williams wrote...
Morality is relative. You say they're evil, I say they're not. There's not really much we can do about that. I agree, a label has no effect on the morality of a group/action.
thatguy212 wrote...
Shepard is a mass murderer, every mission usually, since to commit mass murder all you have to do is kill four or more people in a short amount of timePhaedon wrote...
Morally? Yes, they are. There is no question about it.Cerberus Operative Ashley Williams wrote...
I disagree with you that Cerberus is evil, but you understand that a group that commits acts of violence != terrorist group.
As for 'terrorism', you should know that this term is not considered as bad as mass murder. Not that the morality of TIM's actions change due to a label.
Double kill, tripple kill, overkill!thatguy212 wrote...
Shepard is a mass murderer, every mission usually, since to commit mass murder all you have to do is kill four or more people in a short amount of time
Cerberus Operative Ashley Williams wrote...
Not to mention the many humans that were killed at the hands of said Turians.
Modifié par Zulu_DFA, 19 décembre 2010 - 12:23 .
thatguy212 wrote...
Shepard is a mass murderer, every mission usually, since to commit mass murder all you have to do is kill four or more people in a short amount of time
he kills unarmed prisoners of war and even shoots civilians...Phaedon wrote...
thatguy212 wrote...
Shepard is a mass murderer, every mission usually, since to commit mass murder all you have to do is kill four or more people in a short amount of time
Against people who hold firearms and point them towards his head, yes.
Vaenier wrote...
he kills unarmed prisoners of war and even shoots civilians...
Zulu_DFA wrote...
Cerberus Operative Ashley Williams wrote...
Not to mention the many humans that were killed at the hands of said Turians.
"Innocent" Humans, of Kelly & Gabby type. Don't forget that part.
Is collateral damage acceptable when it's Cerberus that gets hit, and not when anything else? Double standards? Hypocrisy?
What other choice did he have? If the Alliance is so connected to a group that most of the galaxy loathes on principle that they can't aid one of their most decorated and well-known soldiers, why should Anderson care if the Alliance suffers for it? Cerberus does nothing to improve their reputation; maybe the work they do is far more important than PR, but that doesn't give them the right to act like the victim when their bad reputation comes back to bite them. The turians have very good reason to attack Cerberus, and knowing what he does about their actions, so does Anderson.Cerberus Operative Ashley Williams wrote...
Yes, I would label the man that goes behind the Alliance's back to lead a squad of Turians into a base where there is no doubt sensitive Alliance information traitorous. Not to mention the many humans that were killed at the hands of said Turians. It was an act of treason against the Alliance and his race.
They chose to work with an organization that has been deemed illegal by the closest thing the galaxy has to a government, they knew the risks. If Kelly was one of the people working on that base on Binthu when my Shepard got there, he would have had no compunctions gunning her down.Zulu_DFA wrote...
Is collateral damage acceptable when it's Cerberus that gets hit, and not when anything else? Double standards? Hypocrisy?
Modifié par luakel, 19 décembre 2010 - 12:29 .
A) The Alliance is not corrupt, some members of the Alliance are corrupt but the Alliance itself is fine.Phaedon wrote...
Please note that:Cerberus Operative Ashley Williams wrote...
Yes, I would label the man that goes behind the Alliance's back to lead a squad of Turians into a base where there is no doubt sensitive Alliance information traitorous. Not to mention the many humans that were killed at the hands of said Turians. It was an act of treason against the Alliance and his race.
a) The Alliance is corrupt due to Cerberus,so that's TIM's fault.
c) Abducting human children is OK?
Selling out vital information to the Turians and being responsible for dozens of Human deaths is completely ok. As long as they're jerks.
This is a failure on biowares part. they keep forgeting that Renegade != Evil.Phaedon wrote...
Vaenier wrote...
he kills unarmed prisoners of war and even shoots civilians...
Renegade=/=Morally good
Phaedon wrote...
Please note that:Cerberus Operative Ashley Williams wrote...
Yes, I would label the man that goes behind the Alliance's back to lead a squad of Turians into a base where there is no doubt sensitive Alliance information traitorous. Not to mention the many humans that were killed at the hands of said Turians. It was an act of treason against the Alliance and his race.
a) The Alliance is corrupt due to Cerberus,so that's TIM's fault.
c) Abducting human children is OK?
Yes, everyone hired by Cerberus is without a doubt a ruthless criminal. Horrible people like Dr. Chakwas, Joker, Ken, and Gabby.
Renegade isn't evil at all times, but s/he can be.Vaenier wrote...
This is a failure on biowares part. they keep forgeting that Renegade != Evil.
Renegade should be neutral. Its suposed to be grey. Its not suposed to be about being a dick.
A) What's your point? If the Alliance heard about this, then Cerberus would too.thegreateski wrote...
A) The Alliance is not corrupt, some members of the Alliance are corrupt but the Alliance itself is fine.
C) That's not at all what we're discussing.
I am not sure if you are ironic, but trying to stop an inhumane experiment and detaining/killing criminals at the same time is morally good.
Evil things. But right now the conversation is about whether or not Anderson is a traitor for handing Cerberus to the Turians on a silver platter.AlexXIV wrote...
To get on the same page with everyone.
Do we consider people evil for doing evil things or for being human or not human?
a) What treason, how is attacking xenophobic criminals that give your race a bad name treason!Cerberus Operative Ashley Williams wrote...
a) TIM did not make Anderson commit treason (you realize Anderson does this stupid operation because he's p-whipped by some chick he hardly knows who wants to save a mercenary).
c) Abducting Gillian would require her to have a home in the first place. If anything, Grayson is the one that abducts her. He launches her off with a random group of Quarians.
So? As long as they knew what Cerberus did, they are criminals themselves.
A) You lost me.Phaedon wrote...
Renegade isn't evil at all times, but s/he can be.Vaenier wrote...
This is a failure on biowares part. they keep forgeting that Renegade != Evil.
Renegade should be neutral. Its suposed to be grey. Its not suposed to be about being a dick.A) What's your point? If the Alliance heard about this, then Cerberus would too.thegreateski wrote...
A) The Alliance is not corrupt, some members of the Alliance are corrupt but the Alliance itself is fine.
C) That's not at all what we're discussing.
C) Yes, asking for help from your allies is not OK, but abducting innocents is.
The difference between yourself and me. I have problems with killing anybody. Period.
AlexXIV wrote...
Zulu_DFA wrote...
Cerberus Operative Ashley Williams wrote...
Not to mention the many humans that were killed at the hands of said Turians.
"Innocent" Humans, of Kelly & Gabby type. Don't forget that part.
Is collateral damage acceptable when it's Cerberus that gets hit, and not when anything else? Double standards? Hypocrisy?
Talking about hypocrisy. I don't know who they killed. But Kelly and Gabby are Cerberus. They may be nice and everything but if you sign for an organisation like Cerberus you can't really expect to be considered an 'innocent'.
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