215 réponses à ce sujet

[AdmiralCheez]

Dave of Canada wrote...

Yes, though that's metagaming at it's finest.

u mad?

Modifié par AdmiralCheez, 19 décembre 2010 - 01:43 .

[Vaenier]

thegreateski wrote...

So we've come to the conclusion that the Collector base isn't even really that important?

But I am bored, and this was the most fun thread all day

[lovgreno]

Vaenier wrote...

Also, why send the collector ship out on its own? It got taken out by a frigate. It was obviously not being very discreet, and it could never have finished that Reaper without getting the Alliance involved. It just seemed like such a waste, the Reapers handed us that base on a silver platter...

****...

Yes rather suspicious isn't it? Especialy as the reapers are known for making traps.

[thegreateski]

Vaenier wrote...

thegreateski wrote...

So we've come to the conclusion that the Collector base isn't even really that important?

But I am bored, and this was the most fun thread all day

True. I'd much rather argue with strangers then stare at the wall.

[Vaenier]

So, if the decision will not matter, then how exactly do you think it would be handled?
[Speculation]You get new technology to share with your allies, and you gain political tension with the council [minor reduction for sharing tech with them]. This tension would lead to slightly less support for the final battle. If the council is human, would they even care?[/speculation]

Modifié par Vaenier, 19 décembre 2010 - 01:56 .

[thegreateski]

Ugh. We're getting into how the decision would affect basic game mechanics. Details. I detest details.

I'd go with this: Keeping the collector base makes your allies more powerful but there are fewer of them.

Assuming that's the route Bioware decides to go.

Modifié par thegreateski, 19 décembre 2010 - 02:01 .

[AdmiralCheez]

thegreateski wrote...

Ugh. We're getting into how the decision would affect basic game mechanics. Details. I detest details.

I'd go with this. Keeping the collector base makes your allies more powerful but there are fewer of them.

This is how it will play out, I believe.

[The Unfallen]

Because Tim is a raving lunatic.



/Thread.

[thegreateski]

No. Not /thread. I'm not done ranting and raving at random people.

Modifié par thegreateski, 19 décembre 2010 - 02:06 .

[Dave of Canada]

I'm curious on how they'd find out about the Collector Base, the potential allies you'd lose out I mean.

I'm also highly interested in seeing how my Paragon with the Base will play out.

Modifié par Dave of Canada, 19 décembre 2010 - 02:04 .

[The Unfallen]

Who would you trust first? Paragon Shepard? Or the Illusive Man?



Easy...

[Vaenier]

thegreateski wrote...

Ugh. We're getting into how the decision would affect basic game mechanics. Details. I detest details.

I'd go with this: Keeping the collector base makes your allies more powerful but there are fewer of them.

Assuming that's the route Bioware decides to go.

I just hope Bioware doesnt do something stupid like make this choice mean human dominance or something...

It will literally rain Reaper tech when we are done, Cerberus will have no advantage.

The only thing that would make humans better would be that they saved so many alien lives by using better technology in place of canon fodder.

[Dean_the_Young]

Vaenier wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...

Vaenier wrote...

Also, why send the collector ship out on its own? It got taken out by a frigate. It was obviously not being very discreet, and it could never have finished that Reaper without getting the Alliance involved. It just seemed like such a waste, the Reapers handed us that base on a silver platter...

****...

I'm afraid I don't see how this actually responds to something I posted.

If you're asking why they launched the Cruiser during the Suicide Mission to try and defend against the Normandy, the fact that the Normandy was launching an attack at the base on the wrong side of the Omega Relay had something to do with it, and that the Collector Cruiser was all that they had on hand.

The Collector Cruiser wouldn't have needed to attack Earth and the Alliance on its own, though: the Heretic Virus would have provided an entire armada of support craft by the time it really needed escorts and protecting.

It was in reference to their incompetince.

And yet the heretics managed to throw a wrench into that plan too. A single Geth platform managed to get help and stop the virus. If that failed, the Geth would just roll in with their fleet and that station would be in little tiny pieces. Stationary targets are super easy to destroy in space.

If Legion had failed, they wouldn't have understood the virus soon enough and been hit first. We got there 'just in time' as it was: any delay would have seen Heretic success, not the True Geth reversing all policy for a massive conflict.

The Mad Game Skills of Shepard saving the day is a literary element of dramatic effect. If Legion hadn't survived the Derilect Reaper (which he wouldn't have without Shepard), hadn't been recruited by Shepard (which Shepard can choose not to), or been not been taken on the Loyalty mission, the plot dynamic is that the it doesn't happen in time.

Yes, Shepard is made out of magic. That's not incompetence on everyone else's part, though.

[thegreateski]

Vaenier wrote...

thegreateski wrote...

Ugh. We're getting into how the decision would affect basic game mechanics. Details. I detest details.

I'd go with this: Keeping the collector base makes your allies more powerful but there are fewer of them.

Assuming that's the route Bioware decides to go.

I just hope Bioware doesnt do something stupid like make this choice mean human dominance or something...

It will literally rain Reaper tech when we are done, Cerberus will have no advantage.

The only thing that would make humans better would be that they saved so many alien lives by using better technology in place of canon fodder.

Plus there's also the fact that we can cure the genophage, rewrite the Geth, and save the Rachni.

Then we would be both powerful AND numerous.

[Vaenier]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

If Legion had failed, they wouldn't have understood the virus soon enough and been hit first. We got there 'just in time' as it was: any delay would have seen Heretic success, not the True Geth reversing all policy for a massive conflict.

The Mad Game Skills of Shepard saving the day is a literary element of dramatic effect. If Legion hadn't survived the Derilect Reaper (which he wouldn't have without Shepard), hadn't been recruited by Shepard (which Shepard can choose not to), or been not been taken on the Loyalty mission, the plot dynamic is that the it doesn't happen in time.

Yes, Shepard is made out of magic. That's not incompetence on everyone else's part, though.

How do you think Legion found out about the virus? They were probably on their way and Legion just took care of it first.

The virus would take time to function, and thus their would be time to either reverse it, or commit suicide so that they do not become tools again to false gods.

[Vaenier]

thegreateski wrote...

Vaenier wrote...

I just hope Bioware doesnt do something stupid like make this choice mean human dominance or something...

It will literally rain Reaper tech when we are done, Cerberus will have no advantage.

The only thing that would make humans better would be that they saved so many alien lives by using better technology in place of canon fodder.

Plus there's also the fact that we can cure the genophage, rewrite the Geth, and save the Rachni.

Then we would be both powerful AND numerous.

I saved the Rachni and rewrote the Geth. Krogans are useless in this fight.

[thegreateski]

Vaenier wrote...

thegreateski wrote...

Vaenier wrote...

I just hope Bioware doesnt do something stupid like make this choice mean human dominance or something...

It will literally rain Reaper tech when we are done, Cerberus will have no advantage.

The only thing that would make humans better would be that they saved so many alien lives by using better technology in place of canon fodder.

Plus there's also the fact that we can cure the genophage, rewrite the Geth, and save the Rachni.

Then we would be both powerful AND numerous.

I saved the Rachni and rewrote the Geth. Krogans are useless in this fight.

The trailer shows the Reapers on the ground. The Krogan can be excellect shock troops on the ground or in space. TIM even notes this during ME2.

Of course . . . what I said depends on whether or not the trailer is accurate.

[Vaenier]

thegreateski wrote...

The trailer shows the Reapers on the ground. The Krogan can be excellect shock troops on the ground or in space. TIM even notes this during ME2.

Of course . . . what I said depends on whether or not the trailer is accurate.

I just never liked the explanation for why they were ever taken off their radioactive rock in the first place. The Rachni war should have been won through space supremacy, not ground forces. And how are toxic planets an issue, dont people have space suits in the future...?

[Dean_the_Young]

Vaenier wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...

If Legion had failed, they wouldn't have understood the virus soon enough and been hit first. We got there 'just in time' as it was: any delay would have seen Heretic success, not the True Geth reversing all policy for a massive conflict.

The Mad Game Skills of Shepard saving the day is a literary element of dramatic effect. If Legion hadn't survived the Derilect Reaper (which he wouldn't have without Shepard), hadn't been recruited by Shepard (which Shepard can choose not to), or been not been taken on the Loyalty mission, the plot dynamic is that the it doesn't happen in time.

Yes, Shepard is made out of magic. That's not incompetence on everyone else's part, though.

How do you think Legion found out about the virus? They were probably on their way and Legion just took care of it first.

If they were on their way, they wouldn't have needed Legion and Shepard to go do it for them after a whole Derilect Reaper/other missions/Collector Base/however long it takes you delay. They would have simply done  before Legion even went to the Derilect Reaper. There's no reason they would need arrive after Legion, who doesn't even have his own space ship to drive around.

The virus would take time to function, and thus their would be time to either reverse it, or commit suicide so that they do not become tools again to false gods.

Why would they know they've been infected if they can't identify and block the virus in the first place?

[thegreateski]

Vaenier wrote...

thegreateski wrote...

The trailer shows the Reapers on the ground. The Krogan can be excellect shock troops on the ground or in space. TIM even notes this during ME2.

Of course . . . what I said depends on whether or not the trailer is accurate.

I just never liked the explanation for why they were ever taken off their radioactive rock in the first place. The Rachni war should have been won through space supremacy, not ground forces. And how are toxic planets an issue, dont people have space suits in the future...?

The Rachni had a large number of ships as well. From what that one Asari says about the Rachni who rescued her (you know the one), the Rachni are also capable of repairing/creating ships at a remarkably fast pace.

also

Krogan and Rachni come from "death worlds" Worlds where EVERYTHING is trying to eat you. That's why the Krogan were needed. And can you imagine trying to outfit every single soldier with space suits? it would be impractical and any wounds would be deadly.

Plus the Krogan and Rachni breed at a similar rate, niether one of them outnumbered the other.

Modifié par thegreateski, 19 décembre 2010 - 02:33 .

[Vaenier]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

Vaenier wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...

If Legion had failed, they wouldn't have understood the virus soon enough and been hit first. We got there 'just in time' as it was: any delay would have seen Heretic success, not the True Geth reversing all policy for a massive conflict.

The Mad Game Skills of Shepard saving the day is a literary element of dramatic effect. If Legion hadn't survived the Derilect Reaper (which he wouldn't have without Shepard), hadn't been recruited by Shepard (which Shepard can choose not to), or been not been taken on the Loyalty mission, the plot dynamic is that the it doesn't happen in time.

Yes, Shepard is made out of magic. That's not incompetence on everyone else's part, though.

How do you think Legion found out about the virus? They were probably on their way and Legion just took care of it first.

If they were on their way, they wouldn't have needed Legion and Shepard to go do it for them after a whole Derilect Reaper/other missions/Collector Base/however long it takes you delay. They would have simply done  before Legion even went to the Derilect Reaper. There's no reason they would need arrive after Legion, who doesn't even have his own space ship to drive around.

The virus would take time to function, and thus their would be time to either reverse it, or commit suicide so that they do not become tools again to false gods.

Why would they know they've been infected if they can't identify and block the virus in the first place?

I dont even understand how the virus can negate the fact their memories exist of not being brainwashed. They should be able to know by setting up a basic program that would monitor their reasoning and detect if it switches. There is no reason why they could not see the switch from freedom to tools. even gradual, it would cross a threshold eventually. standalone programs to determine sanity would not be effected by the virus. they could check the logs of programs executed at the time of the virus launch and reverse all effects it had, they can just roll back their programs to saved backups after the virus passes.

I dont really know, but they did know it was coming so they obviously were doing something to prevent it.

[Vaenier]

thegreateski wrote...

Vaenier wrote...

thegreateski wrote...

The trailer shows the Reapers on the ground. The Krogan can be excellect shock troops on the ground or in space. TIM even notes this during ME2.

Of course . . . what I said depends on whether or not the trailer is accurate.

I just never liked the explanation for why they were ever taken off their radioactive rock in the first place. The Rachni war should have been won through space supremacy, not ground forces. And how are toxic planets an issue, dont people have space suits in the future...?

The Rachni had a large number of ships as well. From what that one Asari says about the Rachni who rescued her (you know the one), the Rachni are also capable of repairing/creating ships at a remarkably fast pace.

also

Krogan and Rachni come from "death worlds" Worlds where EVERYTHING is trying to eat you. That's why the Krogan were needed. And can you imagine trying to outfit every single soldier with space suits? it would be impractical and any wounds would be deadly.

Plus the Krogan and Rachni breed at a similar rate, niether one of them outnumbered the other.

Krogans got their ships from the citadel fleet. Krogan had zero industry, there was no infastructure like ship yards or mining stations to build their own ships. So why did their ships instantly fair so much better? They dont have any technology to upgrade them with, space tactics are nonexistant for them. Unless krogan give birth to their starships, they wouldnt have helped.

Orbital bombard the Rachni worlds... Council does not like bombarding habital worlds, they dont mind killing death worlds.

[Dean_the_Young]

Vaenier wrote...

I dont even understand how the virus can negate the fact their memories exist of not being brainwashed.

This is actually pretty simple: a basic step in all indoctrination programs (like, real life brainwashing/conditioning/training) is to get the person to accept that the conditioning is proper and right and not mind. When successful, you can know you've been changed, but you don't care. Any time a persuasive argument has changed your position, you've been changed even though you remember your prior position.

They should be able to know by setting up a basic program that would monitor their reasoning and detect if it switches. There is no reason why they could not see the switch from freedom to tools. even gradual, it would cross a threshold eventually. standalone programs to determine sanity would not be effected by the virus. they could check the logs of programs executed at the time of the virus launch and reverse all effects it had, they can just roll back their programs to saved backups after the virus passes.

Such conditional trigger lines are actually easily prone to being manipulated and circumvented by game theory, let alone direct effort. In this case, Geth reasoning has never been static: it is always changing, expanding, and evolving. A 'if you change the way you think' killswitch is rather pointless if you are effectively evolve, expand, and transfer thoughts and consensus at the speed of light.'

Nor does it stop a virus from incrimentally changing behavior, including such aspects as 'turn off safeguards for completely reasonable/logical reasons' that the geth would accept.

I dont really know, but they did know it was coming so they obviously were doing something to prevent it.

They pre-empted its release. That doesn't mean they could endure or defeat it if it was released.

[thegreateski]

Vaenier wrote...
Krogans got their ships from the citadel fleet. Krogan had zero industry, there was no infastructure like ship yards or mining stations to build their own ships. So why did their ships instantly fair so much better? They dont have any technology to upgrade them with, space tactics are nonexistant for them. Unless krogan give birth to their starships, they wouldnt have helped.

Orbital bombard the Rachni worlds... Council does not like bombarding habital worlds, they dont mind killing death worlds.

The ships did not fair better. But they were able to deliver the Krogan to the Rachni's worlds so that they could kill them on the ground and disable their ship making capabilities.

I imagine that they DID try to use orbital bombing when they could. Problem is . . . the Rachni can just wait underground until bombing stops and then launch their own counter-attack and retake the space around their world, giving them time to make new ships.

I'm sure that the traditional strategy for a fight would be the Council fleets clearing out the space around a Rachni world, then they would send the Krogan to the surface so that they could wipe out the enemy on the ground, preventing them from creating more ships or launching a counter-attack.

Suppress and destroy.

Modifié par thegreateski, 19 décembre 2010 - 02:46 .

[Vaenier]

thegreateski wrote...

Vaenier wrote...
Krogans got their ships from the citadel fleet. Krogan had zero industry, there was no infastructure like ship yards or mining stations to build their own ships. So why did their ships instantly fair so much better? They dont have any technology to upgrade them with, space tactics are nonexistant for them. Unless krogan give birth to their starships, they wouldnt have helped.

Orbital bombard the Rachni worlds... Council does not like bombarding habital worlds, they dont mind killing death worlds.

The ships did not fair better. But they were able to deliver the Krogan to the Rachni's worlds so that they could kill them on the ground and disable their ship making capabilities.

I imagine that they DID try to use orbital bombing when they could. Problem is . . . the Rachni can just wait underground until bombing stops and then launch their own counter-attack and retake the space around their world, giving them time to make new ships.

I'm sure that the traditional strategy for a fight would be the Council fleets clearing out the space around a Rachni world, then they would send the Krogan to the surface so that they could wipe out the enemy on the ground, preventing them from creating more ships or launching a counter-attack.

Suppress and destroy.

You underestimate orbital bombardment. Their surface would be turned to glass. They could crack the planets crust with their technology. When you are going at near light speed, that planet is ****ed.

Plus, just park a few ships in orbit to shoot out any ships they start building. Contain the threat till a Rachni genophage is developed.