54 réponses à ce sujet

[Pwner1323]

PrimalEden wrote...

Pwner 1323, that means a lot to hear. Would you tell me how close I am with others?

Thane-single-minded drive in his work, meticulous, sensitive to his surroundings & people

Jack-like Miranda, no sense of self-worth, longs for being cherished but cannot recognize it or refuses to out of fear of being hurt, aggression is mainly a reaction, not meant to initiate fights but to ensure less harrassment in future

Mordin-holds a sense of faith in logic but unable to reconcile with something as nonnegotiable as emotions

Kasumi-hiding behind levity, paranoid, always striving to read people without being read herself

Zaeed-living in the past, aware that cannot last forever but with no one close to him alive...

Well, what do you think?

Thane's is close, but if he was single minded in his work, would he have cared to save all those salarians in the tower?

Jackeline's is surprisengly well organized. Well done.


Mordin does not have any kind of faith in logic, as he would have killed Maelon without hasitation and also destroy the Genophage cure when the Krogan can be used to fight the Reapers. He does not show emotions, you are correct. Comes with the territory.

Kasumi's is all wrong (I apologize for the boldness). She is not paranoid. She is infact very relaxed and laid back. paranoid criminals don't go far and never let anyone get close. She was opne with joining the normandy crew and even had a LI who she told everything. She let's people know what she is thinking (ask her about the things around her room) and isn't afraid to open up. She is a contradiction and thust hard to understand. Nice try though.

Zaeed's is good, but lacks fundation. He doesn't however want a friend or love in his life. He just wants to survive for another day.

[Googlesaurus]

Pwner1323 wrote...

Grunt insults Mordin as the Salarians as a whole many times (casual dialog in missions, act.), due to his hatred towards salariansa already implanted by Okeer. He brushes off Legion in Tuchanka in scenery dialog. Try it. I's the rock at the entrance to the camp.

I usually don't bring Mordin and Grunt together on missions except on Tuchanka. Snippets of dialogue?

He says (paraphrased) "I don't expect an alien to understand." Krogan call anyone who doesn't come from Tuchanka "alien". It's not a direct insult. 

Pwner1323 wrote...

I remember him insulting Garrus, but don't remember right now. I check, otherwise feel free to dismiss.

I specifically tried to egg Grunt on, and he says he doesn't hate Garrus. He hates turians as a general fuzzy group. 

Pwner1323 wrote...

Legion bought a game that acts as donation for Eden Prime and has enever played it. How do you think he feels about the Quarians?

Eden Prime was a human colony attacked by the heretics. Guilt over the heretics maybe, but not for the quarians. 

The SB files seem to be made to confuse the player. He wins an award for killing quarians and fails terribly at playing a quarian RPG: why do one if he morally supports the other? 

Pwner1323 wrote...

Bad example, sorry. He is impulsive though. He spresses little self control and enjoys picking fights as evidenced in the first meeting with shepard. Ouch.

I don't believe that Grunt lacks self-control, especially when he was so displeased at his inability to control his lust for violence. He blatantly says "I want to be in control while fighting. It's not enjoyable when it's not my choice."

Not random in the slightest. Remember that when he's "birthed" he has no idea of the circumstances. He's on a strange ship with a strange person watching him and no memory of how he arrived there. Plus he didn't think of it as a fight as all; Grunt is confident that he has the upper hand Shepard until he sees the gun. If he was just picking fights he would have killed Shepard from the beginning. I don't recall Grunt ever picking a fight just because he can smell one brewing. It's probably one of the things Okeer imprinted to make him the perfect krogan; a lack of discipline in battle would make him a poor soldier.   

Pwner1323 wrote...

yes, samara joined mercenaries. Yes, many other Asari do, but she does express guilt, otherwise she wouldn't be travelling the galaxy fighting bad guys. It's one of the things that motivates her. that and being redeemed. After her loyalty mission, only guilt remians. To her past, and to her two remaining offsprings.

According to Aethyta, it's what most asari do. It's part of their early biological condition. 

You're using circular logic. You're basically saying 

Samara feels guilty over her early life--->Samara did bad things in her early life--->Samara feels guilty over her early life.

Now this could be acceptable except

A) She says that her prey was the reason that she became a justicar in the first place.
She never describes or hints at any feelings of guilt while talking about her retirement from her wild maiden years.
C) She's followed Morinth for hundreds of years of her own free will. 
D) As a mercenary she immediately refrained from exporting slaves when she discovered them and killed her fellow mercenaries over the matter (i.e. she had strong morals even as a young asari). 

The characters aren't that complex. They're pretty upfront about their motivations. 

PrimalEden wrote...

Also, what's the betting that Morinth is a lot closer in personality to Samara in her younger years than Samara will say out loud? That Morinth is closer to her mother in both appearance AND personality?

A lot except Morinth is a dark mirror to current Samara.

Modifié par Googlesaurus, 19 décembre 2010 - 06:44 .

[Pwner1323]

PrimalEden wrote...

Also, what's the betting that Morinth is a lot closer in personality to Samara in her younger years than Samara will say out loud? That Morinth is closer to her mother in both appearance AND personality?

Minus the sociopathic tendencies and domination.

I go on limb with the sexual domination one. Since we can't romance her we are left in the dark.

[Pwner1323]

Googlesaurus wrote...

Pwner1323 wrote...

Grunt insults Mordin as the Salarians as a whole many times (casual dialog in missions, act.), due to his hatred towards salariansa already implanted by Okeer. He brushes off Legion in Tuchanka in scenery dialog. Try it. I's the rock at the entrance to the camp.

I usually don't bring Mordin and Grunt together on missions except on Tuchanka. Snippets of dialogue?

He says (paraphrased) "I don't expect an alien to understand." Krogan call anyone who doesn't come from Tuchanka "alien". It's not a direct insult. 

Pwner1323 wrote...

I remember him insulting Garrus, but don't remember right now. I check, otherwise feel free to dismiss.

I specifically tried to egg Grunt on, and he says he doesn't hate Garrus. He hates turians as a general fuzzy group. 

Pwner1323 wrote...

Legion bought a game that acts as donation for Eden Prime and has enever played it. How do you think he feels about the Quarians?

Eden Prime was a human colony attacked by the heretics. Guilt over the heretics maybe, but not for the quarians. 

The SB files seem to be made to confuse the player. He wins an award for killing quarians and fails terribly at playing a quarian RPG: why do one if he morally supports the other? 

Pwner1323 wrote...

Bad example, sorry. He is impulsive though. He expresses little self control and enjoys picking fights as evidenced in the first meeting with shepard. Ouch.

I don't believe that Grunt lacks self-control, especially when he was so displeased at his inability to control his lust for violence. He blatantly says "I want to be in control while fighting. It's not enjoyable when it's not my choice."

Not random in the slightest. Remember that when he's "birthed" he has no idea of the circumstances. He's on a strange ship with a strange person watching him and no memory of how he arrived there. Plus he didn't think of it as a fight as all; Grunt is confident that he has the upper hand Shepard until he sees the gun. If he was just picking fights he would have killed Shepard from the beginning. I don't recall Grunt ever picking a fight just because he can smell one brewing. It's probably one of the things Okeer imprinted to make him the perfect krogan; a lack of discipline in battle would make him a poor soldier.   

Pwner1323 wrote...

yes, samara joined mercenaries. Yes, many other Asari do, but she does express guilt, otherwise she wouldn't be travelling the galaxy fighting bad guys. It's one of the things that motivates her. that and being redeemed. After her loyalty mission, only guilt remians. To her past, and to her two remaining offsprings.

According to Aethyta, it's what most asari do. It's part of their early biological condition. 

You're using circular logic. You're basically saying 

Samara feels guilty over her early life--->Samara did bad things in her early life--->Samara feels guilty over her early life.

Now this could be acceptable except

A) She says that her prey was the reason that she became a justicar in the first place.
She never describes or hints at any feelings of guilt while talking about her retirement from her wild maiden years.
C) She's followed Morinth for hundreds of years of her own free will. 
D) As a mercenary she immediately refrained from exporting slaves when she discovered them and killed her fellow mercenaries over the matter (i.e. she had strong morals even as a young asari). 

The characters aren't that complex. They're pretty upfront about their motivations. 

PrimalEden wrote...

Also, what's the betting that Morinth is a lot closer in personality to Samara in her younger years than Samara will say out loud? That Morinth is closer to her mother in both appearance AND personality?

A lot except Morinth is a dark mirror to current Samara.

They're all good ones. This feels like a chess match.

Mordin: Snippets of dialogue indeed.

Legion: Confuse the player? YES. When I said he donated to Eden Prime I menat that if he feels bad about the indirect one, why wouldn't he feel bad about the other?

Grunt: He can't control himself. Remember how freaked out he was before his loyalty mission in the Normandy? Having a place to be? That's garbage. many other Krogans have never even been to Tuchanka and control themselves perfectly. You're right about the birthing part though. YOU= +1 point.

Samara: She isguilty over her past. It isn't circular logic. It's just that simple. Forget about other asari, she isn't other Asari. She feels guilty and thust she becomes a vigilante. Not much to it really.

[mineralica]

What can I say? I agree with OP.

Just one thing - hate towards to Jacob. For understanding one reason, try femShep. For other - when loved character replaced with another, don't expect good reaction. Role of "lawful good soldier" is busy by Kaidan, and role of big powerful krogan - by Wrex, so public relation to Jacob and Grunt will be lower than to previous.

[Pwner1323]

I didn't focus on the roles of each character, but yes, the hate comes (partially) from people's love for other characters. But in those cases, very little actaully. I personally don't like jacob because of his badly made character development. Everyone evolves throught ME2, but in the end Jacob keeps being Jacob. There is no change in him even when you romance him.

He's a badly made character through and through. I think it was intentional but I'll keep it to myself for now (nobody ask, I'll include it later on).

Modifié par Pwner1323, 19 décembre 2010 - 07:20 .

[PauseforEffect]

@Pwner, ah, good points. Perhaps I should have said that Thane is single-minded to get the job done with as few casualties as possible. Whether that is due to personal preference, training pragmatism or cultural influence I'm not ready to say.

Don't think Mordin views logic as a religion, just relies on it too much. If not for the few emotions he CAN feel, I'd worry about him being able to maintain ethical boundaries. Emotions ARE important even if we can't explain why.

You are right about Kasumi, she is the hardest to read & for good reason

Don't know what to say about Zaeed really, keep seeing him living like a hermit with a shotgun & a basset hound on his front porch.

[PauseforEffect]

Why do I get the feeling that for all of Jacob's insistence that he's put his father issues behind that it's going to crop up in the future?

Maybe it was the letter in his dossier in LOTSB....

Don't know about Jacob, what say you?

[Pwner1323]

Keep working on thane's. You're close but a little ways off. Don't concentrate on his career, but in his personality. It's our choices that define us and he never chose to be an assassin and he states that he would have worked as something else if he knew how to do anything else.

As for Mordin it's obvious we've both hit a wall, but you're also closer to finding the exit then I am. In other words, you're on the right path.

Zaeed is just that, a paranoid yet relaxed loner and he likes it that way, Im also kinda like that so I don't see it neccessarily as a bad thing, but it those have it's downsides.

Finally as for Jacob I stand by my previous post on him being badly developed.

You have a knack for this but I may call it beginner's luck (but I don't know you so I won't). Try not to rush into what seems at first glance, not everything is in black and white.

Modifié par Pwner1323, 19 décembre 2010 - 07:54 .

[Nightwriter]

I wasn't aware Miranda was hated, actually. I thought people generally felt neutral about her.

[Pwner1323]

Nice to see you Nightwriter. You probably don't remember but Im the Pwener. I was around here a few months ago until..... nevermind.

Modifié par Pwner1323, 19 décembre 2010 - 08:05 .

[AntiChri5]

Miranda is not hated.

[Pwner1323]

AntiChri5 wrote...

Miranda is not hated.

She WAS hated. Im basing my analisis on that. I should have explained that.

[Nightwriter]

Pwner1323 wrote...

Nice to see you Nightwriter. You probably don't remember but Im the Pwener. I was around here a few months ago until..... nevermind.

Until...?

The great hyperspace war?
The tuna melt of San Cristobal?
The Return of the Moderators, part VI?
The asari strike?

[AntiChri5]

There alwayd has been and always will be hate for characters.

But Miranda has never recieved enough general hate to say she is hated.

[Pwner1323]

Check the one year old threads just before ME2 shipped. But ignore this, discuss character love/hate elsewhere please.

[AntiChri5]

I haven't been gone from this site for more then three days since months before ME 2 came out.

And if it wasn't relevant then why did you include it?

[HolyJellyfish]

I like the whole idea of Samara being just as reckless as Morinth was when she was younger.



I mean, if you think about it, Samara didn't HAVE to give birth to three Ardat Yakshi. After the first one, you'd think Samara would know better, realizing that her children would have a very difficult life, living isolated on a planet cut off from the rest of the galaxy and shunned by her entire species.



And yet, Samara kept having children. And then Morinth was the one girl who wouldn't have it and ran away.

[Pwner1323]

Dunno. I'll take it down when I bring in the other characters or people will keep talking about it.

[AntiChri5]

Samara didn't know that they were Ardat Yakshi until they were all born.

[PauseforEffect]

Thank you Pwner1323, it's been the most engaging conversation I've had.

Regarding the post before me, I suspect that Samara didn't find out that her children were Ardat-Yakshi until long after she had the 3rd child. Since it doesn't manifest until, puberty is it?, Morinth & her sisters are likely close in age from being born in a short time frame

[PauseforEffect]

Gah! double post! Blast!

Modifié par PrimalEden, 19 décembre 2010 - 09:24 .

[Pwner1323]

Keep it up Primal, you weren't bad at it. Come back soon, I'll post new characters when I can in the first page with the rest.

[NanQuan]

Miranda: She is kinda shallow don't you think? I really can't come up
with something solid for her. Her sister is only a personal vendetta
against her father, not real love. She hates her father and will do
anything to spite him.

Legion: Check his profile in the SB's base and look at the things he bought.

Jacob: What personality? His a 20 something man trying to figure himself out while working for terrirists. PATHETIC.

Tali:
She is more facialized then you think. NOW is when BW is bothering to
add emotions to her life. A little too late if you ask me.

Thane: Not much TO say......

Samara:
many things come to the factors that push her to fight crime. Her
daughters, are yes, a factor to remember, but compared to the ones
around her wild years, they are minor.

I will take you on your advice to go more in-depth with the characters.

Miranda- I'd argue that her love for her sister (which I would also argue is genuine) is a form of self love since her and her sister are genetically identical. She sees herself, the life she might have had, and lives bicariously through Oriana.  All the wishes that she has for Oriana are wishes that she has for herself. It's a lot more than spiting her father.  Her ego (and I am referring to ego from a psychoanalytical standpoint, not the derogatory term) is a major player in her personality and I don't think it's fair to write her off as shallow.

Legion- Yes, the SB dossier was what I thought of when I said he had apologist leanings, however, his conversations also imply a strong since of "pride" for the geth.  He tells you that they intend to make a giant space station and isolate themselves from everyone else.  He also tries to send data to the geth from Tali's omni-tool.  He still has plenty of rational self-interest and does not bend over backwards for the Quarians.

Jacob-I don't think there's a lot going on with Jacob either, but you did say you intended to do a personality analysis of these characters. If you maintain he has no personality then why include him?

Tali- Regardless of whether you think Tali's character arc comes too late, I still don't think the only thing people care about is the mystery. Do some people only care about what she looks like? Probably. Is that how everyone feels? No.  And if you want to do a personality evaluation of Tali, shouldn't her relationship with her father play a major role?

Thane- Like Jacob, if you maintain there isn't much to say, then why include him? Though I would also argue that there are some interesting ideas floating around his notions of culpability.  The way he views mind and body and such.  Also his inability to form a stable home life.

Samara- She never expresses any guilt or remorse over her "wild" years. She states them very matter-of-factly.  What she desires is the matron stage of her life - the time to raise children and pass on her legacy.  However, that cannot be and as she says her legacy will end with her.  Her maiden stage of life plays little, if any, role in her personality.


Effected suggested doing a jungian analysis. That could be really interesting.  I did I quick one for Miranda and got: ENTJ and more in depth:

• moderately expressed extravert, moderately expressed intuitive personality, very expressed thinking personality, distinctively expressed judging personality

Also known as the Fieldmarshal personality type. It fits her personality nicely. Still though, somewhat all obvious information so may not be worth the time.

[Googlesaurus]

Pwner1323 wrote...

Mordin: Snippets of dialogue indeed.

I meant post the additional dialogue. I never choose Grunt and Mordin as squadmates except on Tuchanka. 

Pwner1323 wrote...

Legion: Confuse the player? YES. When I said he donated to Eden Prime I menat that if he feels bad about the indirect one, why wouldn't he feel bad about the other?

For the geth, the Morning War was a matter of survival. Eden Prime was a deliberate choice on the part of the heretics. While the heretics and true geth separated on friendly terms, they was no indication that the heretics had completely abandoned all their traditional values at that point. They disagreed on one part of their respective hierarchy of values: for the heretics, building the superstructure > technological independence and vice versa. Destroying Eden Prime was a direct contradiction of the "self-determination" clause, and the spying violated the intimate understanding the geth have of each other.

Pwner1323 wrote...

Grunt: He can't control himself. Remember how freaked out he was before his loyalty mission in the Normandy?

It was a temporary biological condition that all krogan go through; Grunt being tankbred, it was apparently delayed (in his words anyway). He went to Tuchanka, completes the Rites, and never does it again. It wasn't an aspect of his personality as much as an uncontrollable physical urge.

Pwner1323 wrote...

Having a place to be? That's garbage. many other Krogans have never even been to Tuchanka and control themselves perfectly.

?

Pwner1323 wrote...

Samara: She isguilty over her past. It isn't circular logic. It's just that simple. Forget about other asari, she isn't other Asari. She feels guilty and thust she becomes a vigilante. Not much to it really.

I see Samara's guilt as stemming from Morinth's destruction. She tells herself that Morinth must be put down without mercy, but it was her own desire for happiness that directly led to her birth. That's why she becomes a justicar instead of a vigilante: the self-denial is part of the atonement, and the Code has no grey areas to make her feel guilt over her mission. 

Good discussion though. 

Modifié par Googlesaurus, 19 décembre 2010 - 10:49 .