133 réponses à ce sujet

[Nyaore]

I wouldn't support any of them in all honesty. Though if push came to shove and I was forced to choose a side, I'd go with the normal Chantry we all love to hate with the Imperial Chantry taking a close second if only for being suspected of turning a blind eye to slavery.
However with that said it's like asking you to choose between cancer, heart disease, and sickle cell anemia. Some options might be better than others, depending upon your outlook, but none of them are truly good for you.

Modifié par Nyaore, 20 décembre 2010 - 01:39 .

[errant_knight]

EnforcerGREG wrote...

errant_knight wrote...

I wouldn't support the Imperial Chantry any more than the Qun. The Orlesian Chantry is the only one of the three that doesn't try to actually take control of the government. If the Chantry in Kirkwall is trying to do that, then they're moving beyond their purvue and need to be removed and replaced by Chantry officials who aren't.

 
Not directly but It's a major player in Thedas controlling the lyrium trade and the power of exalted marches.

I also get the feeling that the Chantry is biased towards Orlais. Has there ever been a divine that wasn't from Orlais. The ages also reflect this almost always having to do with the glory of Orlais.

The templars are in charge of Kirkwall in all but name they killed the last visicount to have him replaced with someone they could control.

I suspect that if forum speculation about all this is in any way correct, the Chantry in Kirkwall will basically be in schism from the Chantry as a whole. Executing heads of state really isn't in their mandate unless that head of state is a mage, and we have no hint that was the case. There's a big difference between excercising undeniable influence and chopping off heads. The second isn't good for the Chantry in the long run, as it could well move leaders in other places to unite against them. Kings and Queens wouldn't just roll over if they suspected that the Chantry intended to overthrow them. The Orlesian Chantry would be smart to nip that in the bud.

[Augustei]

EnforcerGREG wrote...

errant_knight wrote...

I wouldn't support the Imperial Chantry any more than the Qun. The Orlesian Chantry is the only one of the three that doesn't try to actually take control of the government. If the Chantry in Kirkwall is trying to do that, then they're moving beyond their purvue and need to be removed and replaced by Chantry officials who aren't.

 
Not directly but It's a major player in Thedas controlling the lyrium trade and the power of exalted marches.

I also get the feeling that the Chantry is biased towards Orlais. Has there ever been a divine that wasn't from Orlais. The ages also reflect this almost always having to do with the glory of Orlais.

The templars are in charge of Kirkwall in all but name they killed the last visicount to have him replaced with someone they could control.

Yeah you sort of get that feeling if you read The Stolen Throne, They at first condemn Maric and say that it is the makers intention for Orlais to be under Orlesian Control

[Augustei]

Nyaore wrote...

I wouldn't support any of them in all honesty. Though if push came to shove and I was forced to choose a side, I'd go with the normal Chantry we all love to hate with the Imperial Chantry taking a close second if only for being suspected of turning a blind eye to slavery.
However with that said it's like asking you to choose between cancer, heart disease, and sickle cell anemia. Some options might be better than others, depending upon your outlook, but none of them are truly good for you.

Not Necessarily, I mean under Chantry rule things seem to be kept in Order and are alright overall. Ferelden apart from the whole blight and civil war seems like an alright place to live. Sure they have some bad ideas and views but they dont really effect most people as a whole. Most people seem to be happy under the chantry

[Sigil_Beguiler123]

A organization as powerful as the Chantry can't really help not being influenced/being influential with politics. Be it leaders and organizations being followers of the Chantry, the Chantry having to work with a government to keep from being outlawed, or working to form a new government against a government that outlawed them, etc.

[Augustei]

Well there was no real right option with the choosing a King for Orzamaar was there? and to a much lesser extent the anvil of the void. I mean if you choose the kinder, more what you would consider Good king. He ends up being a failure and all goes to hell once again. If you don't get the golems to be recreated then your essentially dooming Orzammar because those flesh golems will just come and wipe out the dwarves with ease.



Choices that are neither Black or White but instead shades of grey have happened before. Why not have them happen again?

[Super_Fr33k]

In any playthrough where I'm being myself, more or less, I would find all three of them so distasteful I might simply try to pick the one most likely to fail to hold Kirkwall. I'd go with the Imperial Chantry, most likely, in that case, because the other two factions would destabilize it so much. The regular Chantry would pull more support from Orlais and others, and the Qunari would be damn difficult to remove, especially through force. Whichever I could subvert and remove in order to have a freer city would be ideal.



However, if I had to pick the one most tolerable for the long-term, it'd be the Orlesian Chantry, which does not permit slavery. They parallel nicely to the Catholic Church in many ways, especially in the sense that you can mostly ignore them nowadays and do what you want. You know, the whole, "Forgive me Father, for I have sinned, and I've scheduled an encore for this afternoon" kinda thing.

[errant_knight]

stickmanhenry wrote...

I'm sure that there would be a more 'morally right' option than those three, because they all sounds pretty vulgar.

I'm not sure what you mean by vulgar there... Distasteful? In any case, not everyone sees the Chantry as immoral to support.

[Behindyounow]

Ok, now that the Imperial chantry is an official option, I'll choose them. They have the right ideas with mages.

[Augustei]

Right is a matter of opinion, in the Imperial Chantry don't mages normally make it into positions of power simply because they are mages and the more magical power you possess the more you will succeed in their society? This influences the use of Blood magic And since mages seem to be barely policed much or at all for that matter then demons could run freely throughout the streets without anyone being the wiser.

[SDNcN]

I'd add the Nobles to the list of options. Lets not forget that Hawke is connected to the Amell family which is nobility in Kirkwall.

[Xilizhra]

XxDeonxX wrote...

Right is a matter of opinion, in the Imperial Chantry don't mages normally make it into positions of power simply because they are mages and the more magical power you possess the more you will succeed in their society? This influences the use of Blood magic And since mages seem to be barely policed much or at all for that matter then demons could run freely throughout the streets without anyone being the wiser.

The fact that demons never wiped out the Tevinter Imperium despite the freedom of mages tells me that they have some means of controlling them. Maybe Tevinter mages are just better at policing themselves?

Anyway, Imperial Chantry. The Imperial government may enslave people, but the Imperial Chantry doesn't and it seems to be less strict, especially when it comes to mages.

[Behindyounow]

XxDeonxX wrote...

In the Imperial Chantry don't mages normally make it into positions of power simply because they are mages 

Yep. Like I said, thats the right idea.

[Drz]

Qunari all the way!

[Augustei]

Drazlol wrote...

Qunari all the way!

Lol why Qunari?

[Augustei]

Im actually quite suprised people even said Qunari

[AngelicMachinery]

The obvious answer is Anders.



Seriously though if this were the case, I think I might be inclined to pick the Chantry. I don't think hawkette would want a leash outside the bedroom.

[FaeQueenCory]

If the choice is between Qunari oppression, Chantry oppression, or Tevinter oppression... I'm going to have my Hawke choose the other option: F**K all you b***hes! I'm doing my own thing!



Basically, keeping the free marshes free.

[LobselVith8]

XxDeonxX wrote...

So if come Dragon age 2 one of the big decisions you had to make near the end of the game was who to leave in control of Kirkwall, who to leave in power and your only two options were the Chantrys Templars and the Qunari.

Which would you choose?

EDIT: Ok so if you had to choose between the Chantry, Qunari or the Tevinter Imperium Chantry which would you choose?

So the choice is between three vile factions? The Imperial Chantry has slaves and uses them for blood rituals, the Chantry treats mages as their own personal slaves and has killed people on the suspicion of being mages (like the Magnificent D'Sims), and the Qunari put a leash on their mages and treat them like animals. I'm not going to side with any of the three factions, I'd rather see them all dead. Honestly, I want to see Hawke take power for himself, forge alliances with or take over the rest of the Free Marches; basically, an apostate Hawke with a mage army at his command.

[Sir JK]

LobselVith8 wrote...

So the choice is between three vile factions? The Imperial Chantry has slaves and uses them for blood rituals, the Chantry treats mages as their own personal slaves and has killed people on the suspicion of being mages (like the Magnificent D'Sims), and the Qunari put a leash on their mages and treat them like animals. I'm not going to side with any of the three factions, I'd rather see them all dead. Honestly, I want to see Hawke take power for himself, forge alliances with or take over the rest of the Free Marches; basically, an apostate Hawke with a mage army at his command.

If I've understood correctly, the imperial chantry does not use blood magic (nor does the magisters), openly avyways. They do however tolerate slavery in the imperium. So accusing them of blood rituals like the Tevinter of old is a bit unfair.

Saying that the Andrastian Chantry treats mages like slaves is also a bit unfair. They are kept in house-arrest, but they're not really slaves (they're not owned, they don't have to work, they are not traded. They "just" have their freedom restrained).
The way I've understood it the enchanting is something the mage circles choose to do, rather than are told to do.
Still... they're not treated fairly or good. Just not like slaves (more like criminals or the insane).

The qunari do treat mages like animals though, that's true. Though like beasts of burden or war dogs, rather than vermin. Again, not a fair treatment.

---

Personally though, if I have to choose between them, I'll choose the one that I think is th best for the people living in Kirkwall (and the others that might be affected). The one that will help them the most and try to work on improving the situation for those that it does not benefit.

[marshalleck]

That's a pretty crap choice. Of the three, I think the qunari would probably be the least awful. They are, if nothing else, a purely meritocratic society. So if they assigned you to mucking out gutters, rest assured that's what you're best at.

Modifié par marshalleck, 06 janvier 2011 - 09:52 .

[HolyAvenger]

Isn't the whole reason Cassandra is interrogating Varric is because of the fact that the Chantry has lost power in Kirkwall? Hence I fear you WON'T be able to choose to back them in the end-game...

[drahelvete]

Definitely Qunari. I find the Qun fascinating and would love it if my character could convert to it.

[LobselVith8]

EnforcerGREG wrote...

errant_knight wrote...

I wouldn't support the Imperial Chantry any more than the Qun. The Orlesian Chantry is the only one of the three that doesn't try to actually take control of the government. If the Chantry in Kirkwall is trying to do that, then they're moving beyond their purvue and need to be removed and replaced by Chantry officials who aren't.

 
Not directly but It's a major player in Thedas controlling the lyrium trade and the power of exalted marches.

I also get the feeling that the Chantry is biased towards Orlais. Has there ever been a divine that wasn't from Orlais. The ages also reflect this almost always having to do with the glory of Orlais.

The templars are in charge of Kirkwall in all but name they killed the last visicount to have him replaced with someone they could control.

True. The Andrastian Chantry treats mages like their own personal slaves and strips them of all their rights, but has no problem using them to win their war with the Qunari in the New Exalted Marches. The Andrastian Chantry was created by the first Orlesian Emperor, and the Divine resides in Orlais, so it will always be biased towards Orlais.

Sir JK wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

So the choice is between three vile factions? The Imperial Chantry has slaves and uses them for blood rituals, the Chantry treats mages as their own personal slaves and has killed people on the suspicion of being mages (like the Magnificent D'Sims), and the Qunari put a leash on their mages and treat them like animals. I'm not going to side with any of the three factions, I'd rather see them all dead. Honestly, I want to see Hawke take power for himself, forge alliances with or take over the rest of the Free Marches; basically, an apostate Hawke with a mage army at his command.

If I've understood correctly, the imperial chantry does not use blood magic (nor does the magisters), openly avyways. They do however tolerate slavery in the imperium. So accusing them of blood rituals like the Tevinter of old is a bit unfair.

Considering that a blood ritual is offered to the Warden at the end of Unrest in the Alienage, I have to respectfully disagree.

Sir JK wrote...

Saying that the Andrastian Chantry treats mages like slaves is also a bit unfair. They are kept in house-arrest, but they're not really slaves (they're not owned, they don't have to work, they are not traded. They "just" have their freedom restrained).

They are taken from their families, forced to live in the Circle under armored soldiers who are trained to watch them with suspicion (and some of who talk about killing them with glee), they're not permitted to leave unless a rare exception is made, and they have their children taken from them. That doesn't even touch on how they can't own land, can't inherit a title, and can be killed with absolutely no evidence against them (like the Magnificent D'Sims was, and he was a fake healer). Saying they just have their freedom restrained is absolutely ludicrious when they have absolutely no freedom to begin with. They're little better than slaves.

Sir JK wrote...

The way I've understood it the enchanting is something the mage circles choose to do, rather than are told to do.
Still... they're not treated fairly or good. Just not like slaves (more like criminals or the insane).

You mean the tranquil, the mages who lose all emotion and basically live to craft magical items because they lose their humanity? Jowan was willing to risk death to avoid becoming tranquil, so we're going to have to disagree about the tranquil not being little better than slaves.

Sir JK wrote...

The qunari do treat mages like animals though, that's true. Though like beasts of burden or war dogs, rather than vermin. Again, not a fair treatment.

Treating a person like they're an animal and cutting out their tounge if they do something you dislike is pretty much treating them like vermin.