53 réponses à ce sujet

[Ghost Lightning]

Yes.

[earthbornFemShep]

LiamN7 wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Ok I have to ask. So are you saying that if characters die in someones play through that they should magically be in ME3 if you import that game ?

Basically, yes.

No offense. But that is silly.

I think what Xilizhra is trying to say is that if a character dies in your game, it should NOT affect what characters I have in my game.  So, Bioware should ignore the fact that everyone can die in ME2 and focus on the fact that everyone can live.  Then adjust accordingly to your save file.

So, in my game, if Jack and Mordin are dead... well, then Jack and Mordin are dead in that ME3 save game and everyone else is alive.
But in another save game, if no one is dead, then no one is dead in that ME3 save game. 

I don't think Xilizhra is saying that if Jack in Mordin are dead in my save game that they should be respawned in ME3 in that same save game.  That would, indeed, be silly and would not carry the consequences Bioware had intended when they made this series.  If you want that sort of experience, play Fable.

EDIT:  Upon further reading, I guess Xilizhra was rooting for magic.  But, above is what I think Bioware should do.

Modifié par earthbornFemShep, 19 décembre 2010 - 08:47 .

[RyuGuitarFreak]

Yannkee wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...
The problem with killing team members: Bioware will still have to create all the content for them, in case you let them live. That would result in a lot of content never seen by any one player. Bioware is unlikely to do such a thing for many characters.
 

I don't see the difference between creating content for a character who can be recruited or not (Thane, Samara, Tali ...), and creating content for a character who is dead or not. It's the same thing, and they could do that for many characters. Then players will have to deal with the consequences of killing squadmates in ME2.

I want Miranda back as a squadmate because it's the only way to have many interactions with her. Bioware will never give so many conversations to a cameo.

They would give that to a DLC though...

Yeah...

Well, 6 new squadies is pretty much guaranteed. I know it's very possible to see the old ones just as cameos but I'd like some of them as full squadmates. Miri, Jacob, Garrus and Legion. These 4 IMO at least is an obligation. There's no excuse for them to not be with Shepard for the rest of the conflict against the reapers. They would need to give a veeeeeeery good reason to remove them from the Normandy and I'd not buy it anyway. No Garrus nor Miri would make me chosen for the Red Lantern Corps.

I think it would be stupid to put so much at the "squad" in ME2, something close as a small army, the best of the best. What excuse would they give us that the new squad is better than the last one? Also, so much talk about choices, how could anyone die in the suicide mission and this is what they should give for the ones who got away with everyone alive in ME3? Really. I mean, what would they be thinking? It's the final big conflict, remove them from Shepard's squad would be dumb. As I said, at least some of them should be full squadies and the others with at least a big role in the game.

And the dialogue doesn't need to be so big as the ammount of ME2 is. Something at the same level of ME1 would be nice.

6 new, 4 from ME2 and the Virmire suvivor. 11 squadies.  Well, I'm coming to the conclusion that this is improbable to see in the game.

Nevermind then. Bioware, surprise me.

Modifié par RyuGuitarFreak, 19 décembre 2010 - 09:27 .

[Liec]

I don't see what is so extremely hard about making all characters return as full squadmates. Sure Bioware would have to create a lot of content that wouldn't be available for people with playthroughs in which any given character died, but there always will be a bunch of content that you don't get see no matter what choices you make, that's just how the game works.

[Marta Rio]

I'd actually prefer the OP's idea over all the former squaddies returning as squadmates.  Here's why:
I'd prefer a single mission in which I get some rich, unique interaction with one character to many missions (or talks on the ship) where I get very little dialogue (see: missing squadmate banter in ME2 and Garrus and his calibrations). 

There's only so much disc space - I'd rather that it wasn't devoted to storing a different version of Ashley, Kaiden, Liara, Wrex, Tali, Garrus, Miranda, Jacob, Jack, Thane, Mordin, Legion, Grunt, Samara, Morinth,  Zaeed, and Kasumi's dialogue during every mission.

I don't really buy the "wasted" content argument, since Bioware could still include the mission, but just make you use a placeholder character if a certain character was dead (a Wrex vs. Wreav type scenario, or just use a new squadmate).  I like the idea that if you got a squadmate killed, there are some consequences for that.  Implementing in this way would also give people an incentive to buy ME2, and not just ME3 (although why anyone would do that I don't know).

Modifié par Marta Rio, 20 décembre 2010 - 02:11 .

[Dean_the_Young]

LiamN7 wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Ok I have to ask. So are you saying that if characters die in someones play through that they should magically be in ME3 if you import that game ?

Basically, yes.

No offense. But that is silly.

I think it makes perfect sense. We can use the technology from the Collector Base to do the Lazarus Project for everyone.

You get a Lazarus Project! And you get a Lazarus Project! And you! And you! And you!

[luakel]

Dean_the_Young wrote...
]I think it makes perfect sense. We can use the technology from the Collector Base to do the Lazarus Project for everyone.

You get a Lazarus Project! And you get a Lazarus Project! And you! And you! And you!

What if Shepard blew up the base? Do each of the dead squadmates just get random debris from the base grafted to their corpses to create shambling robo-zombies that carry out pre-set tasks (i.e. calibrating) and robotically shout the same phrases in combat?

Hopefully TIM's got a lot of 4 billion credit bundles lying around, this could get costly.

[GodWood]

Busomjack wrote...

GodWood wrote...
Why do people keep thinking Jacob will come back as a full squadmate?
He's the most unliked character amongst the fans, having him as a full time companion would be a massive troll

I'd like some evidence other than your conjecture that Jacob is the most disliked character in the game. 

Xette's survey of 808 people had Jacob ranked:
second most 'meh' squadmate.
Least Loved Female LI
Most Hated Female LI
least requested character to return (excluding Morinth)

XX55XX's survey of 845 people had Jacob ranked 3rd least liked companion with an average of 5.3

Major Truth's survey of 300 people had Jacob ranked second least liked companion with an average of 4.47 (least liked being Morinth with an average of 4.26)

guru7892's poll of 2840 people which asked "Which character should of been cut from ME2?" had Jacob ranked second with  26% beaten by Zaeed with 27%.

Mr Himura Chan's poll of 1677 people which asked "Who is your favourite ME companion?" had Jacob ranked last with only 5 votes (less than 1%)

So excluding the murderess black widow Morinth, Jacob is in most cases the most unpopular companion.

EDIT: Oh, and I should mention I chose all those surveys and polls at random.

Modifié par GodWood, 20 décembre 2010 - 01:30 .

[Marta Rio]

GodWood wrote...

Busomjack wrote...

GodWood wrote...
Why do people keep thinking Jacob will come back as a full squadmate?
He's the most unliked character amongst the fans, having him as a full time companion would be a massive troll

I'd like some evidence other than your conjecture that Jacob is the most disliked character in the game. 

<snip>

So excluding the murderess black widow Morinth, Jacob is in most cases the most unpopular companion.

Depending on which of those polls you're looking at, people also seem to like Kaiden and Zaeed less.  So if you want to get technical he's not the most disliked, he's just really really disliked.

[GodWood]

Marta Rio wrote...

GodWood wrote...

Busomjack wrote...

GodWood wrote...
Why do people keep thinking Jacob will come back as a full squadmate?
He's the most unliked character amongst the fans, having him as a full time companion would be a massive troll

I'd like some evidence other than your conjecture that Jacob is the most disliked character in the game. 

So excluding the murderess black widow Morinth, Jacob is in most cases the most unpopular companion.

Depending on which of those polls you're looking at, people also seem to like Kaiden and Zaeed less.  So if you want to get technical he's not the most disliked, he's just really really disliked.

Kaiden scored lowest in 2 but quite high in others + he has 2500 page fan thread, Jacob does not.
Zaeed only scored lower in one poll, and that was only by 1%, plus I think it needs to be taken into account Zaeed was a DLC character and because of this he didn't have the liberaty of actual dialogue options.
Jacob did.

Jacob is consistently unpopular.

[Dean_the_Young]

luakel wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...
I think it makes perfect sense. We can use the technology from the Collector Base to do the Lazarus Project for everyone.

You get a Lazarus Project! And you get a Lazarus Project! And you! And you! And you!

What if Shepard blew up the base? Do each of the dead squadmates just get random debris from the base grafted to their corpses to create shambling robo-zombies that carry out pre-set tasks (i.e. calibrating) and robotically shout the same phrases in combat?

Hopefully TIM's got a lot of 4 billion credit bundles lying around, this could get costly.

Clearly if we're going to ignore player choices and consequences and bring everyone who died back, we've established a precedent for ingrring other obvious consequences as well.

[AdmiralCheez]

@GodWood: Actually, I kind of want Jacob to come back. He only sucked because he was underdeveloped as a character. Well, that and the romance.  But seriously, he actually has potential for redemption.

Modifié par AdmiralCheez, 20 décembre 2010 - 03:01 .

[lazuli]

GodWood wrote...


Jacob is consistently unpopular.

I have to question the credibility of polls that only dedicated forum regulars would even know about let alone take.  I think that these polls are useful for getting to know the particular community that is attracted to this site better, but I don't think they give us an accurate look at the ME2 player base.

I will agree, though, that Jacob is "consistently unpopular" on these boards.  Every time a "least favorite" thread pops up that involves squadmates or romance, Jacob gets a lot of hate.

[GodWood]

AdmiralCheez wrote...
@GodWood: Actually, I kind of want Jacob to come back. He only sucked because he was underdeveloped as a character. Well, that and the romance.  But seriously, he actually has potential for redemption.

I'd rather not waste an entire companion slot with him and would instead prefer a 'cool cameo' for him.

Thats not to say I'm completely against him returning, its just that theres other characters who deserve to return more.

[Praetor Knight]

Would more LotSB-style 'temporary' squadmates work out in ME3?

Sure, I'd like to have temporary squadmates like an elcor.





Regarding Jacob, I wonder how much of an impact there was on the character from ME Galaxy where he could use Assault Rifles and seemed cooler.

In ME2 he seemed to have less initiative and then got stuck with Pull, an ammo power and Barrier.

[lazuli]

Praetor Shepard wrote...
Regarding Jacob, I wonder how much of an impact there was on the character from ME Galaxy where he could use Assault Rifles and seemed cooler.
In ME2 he seemed to have less initiative and then got stuck with Pull, an ammo power and Barrier.

You describe his current setup as if it's bad.  Pull is a fantastic power on any difficulty.  Jacob is the only character in the game who has immediate access to it.  Even Adept Shepard needs to invest in another skill before he can use Pull.  He also has Incendiary Ammo right off the bat, which means that weapon oriented Shepards (that might not get as much use out of Pull as caster Shepards) can use his Squad Incendiary Ammo before they've invested in Inferno Ammo themselves.

I will agree that Barrier is trash.  Luckily we now have LotSB which allows us to remove all points from it so that he doesn't spam it heedlessly.

And with the addition of the GPS, Jacob has no need for an Assault Rifle.  Then again, I've always been underwhelmed by Assault Rifles on squadmates, so I never really wanted him to have one.

You have to examine Jacob a bit more closely than, say, Miranda to determine his effectiveness in the squad.  But he's far from as terrible as most people seem to think.  In my own rankings (Insanity difficulty), I place him in effectiveness second only to Miranda and Liara.

[GraciousCat]

I think that they should only bring back the squad mates that it makes sense to bring back, ie. Garrus, Tali, Grunt, Legion, Miranda, Virmire Survivor, and a few others. And give the rest a temporary squad mate type cameo.

Modifié par GraciousCat, 20 décembre 2010 - 03:31 .

[Praetor Knight]

lazuli wrote...

You describe his current setup as if it's bad.  Pull is a fantastic power on any difficulty.  Jacob is the only character in the game who has immediate access to it.  Even Adept Shepard needs to invest in another skill before he can use Pull.  He also has Incendiary Ammo right off the bat, which means that weapon oriented Shepards (that might not get as much use out of Pull as caster Shepards) can use his Squad Incendiary Ammo before they've invested in Inferno Ammo themselves.

I will agree that Barrier is trash.  Luckily we now have LotSB which allows us to remove all points from it so that he doesn't spam it heedlessly.

And with the addition of the GPS, Jacob has no need for an Assault Rifle.  Then again, I've always been underwhelmed by Assault Rifles on squadmates, so I never really wanted him to have one.

You have to examine Jacob a bit more closely than, say, Miranda to determine his effectiveness in the squad.  But he's far from as terrible as most people seem to think.  In my own rankings (Insanity difficulty), I place him in effectiveness second only to Miranda and Liara.

 
That's what I was wondering about, I didn't intend that he has bad skills, he's helpful with squad incendiary ammo, but I've read that with all that he did in Galaxy, he felt nerfed in ME2, then there's his LM with his father.

Also it seems that many people formed their opinion of him before the GPS came out and before the LotSB respec.

I'm fine with him by the way, and he's solid for much of the game, but having one tech power maybe instead of Barrier would have been better.

[lazuli]

Praetor Shepard wrote...
I'm fine with him by the way, and he's solid for much of the game, but having one tech power maybe instead of Barrier would have been better.

One reason I hope he and the other ME2 squadmates return in ME3 is that I'm curious to see what Bioware does with their builds.  With loyalty missions being unlikely, unlocking loyalty powers also seems improbable.

But to get back on topic, I don't think ME3 will feature lots of temporary squad roles like Liara in LotSB.

[GodWood]

GraciousCat wrote...
I think that they should only bring back the squad mates that it makes sense to bring back, ie. Garrus, Tali, Grunt, Legion, Miranda, Virmire Survivor, and a few others. And give the rest a temporary squad mate type cameo.

However whoever 'makes sense to bring back' for you may be different to others.

[lazuli]

GodWood wrote...

GraciousCat wrote...
I think that they should only bring back the squad mates that it makes sense to bring back, ie. Garrus, Tali, Grunt, Legion, Miranda, Virmire Survivor, and a few others. And give the rest a temporary squad mate type cameo.

However whoever 'makes sense to bring back' for you may be different to others.

Agreed.  I wonder to what degree the statistics Bioware gathered on ME2 players will affect their decisions (or have affected their decisions) about what squadmates to include.

[Jaron Oberyn]

Given that Bioware stated the choices/consequences will result in a wild variation of endings in the third game, and it is the last game, I doubt that your surviving squad will be subjected to cameos as they have repeatedly expressed that since it's the last game they're not worrying about continuity into another. Meaning the game will be vastly different from person to person. Stop thinking about it too much. Bioware isn't going to punish a player because someone got all but two of their squad killed.



-Polite

[Rekkampum]

lazuli wrote...

GodWood wrote...


Jacob is consistently unpopular.

I have to question the credibility of polls that only dedicated forum regulars would even know about let alone take.  I think that these polls are useful for getting to know the particular community that is attracted to this site better, but I don't think they give us an accurate look at the ME2 player base.

I will agree, though, that Jacob is "consistently unpopular" on these boards.  Every time a "least favorite" thread pops up that involves squadmates or romance, Jacob gets a lot of hate.

Yeah. If we want more objective work, we need more data than a few hundred or so.