155 réponses à ce sujet

[-Skorpious-]

Although I noticed this myself during playthroughs of ME2, a recent thread created by BiancoAngelo7 inspired me to offer my criticism on ME2's galaxy map and offer suggestions on possible solutions to appease fans of both systems. Before I begin, I am aware that my "opinion" is not the correct one, but rather a difference between tastes.

First I will highlight the main aspects of the ME galaxy map -

• Navigate using a "cursor"
• Planet designs are zoomed in with emphasis on individual design
• More detailed Codex entry's
• No restrictions on travel

And ME2's map -

• Travel using a mini model of the Normandy
• Planets designed to be compatible with the mining system, hurting the "individuality" of the planets themselves. Compare Bres toShir
• Codex entry's see a drop in quality (possibly due to the sheer number of planets, but just an educated guess on my part)
• Mining system added to make purchasing upgrades possible
• New fuel system included to enhance realism

I personally prefer ME's system over ME2's. I liked controlling the cursor (it made me feel like a true "captain") over the gimmicky tiny Normandy model of ME2. The planets were each uniquely designed, the Codex entry's took science and realism more seriously, and I was allowed to travel wherever I pleased. In fact, one of my biggest criticisms about ME2's map is that the fuel system hampered exploration rather than encourage it. It wasn't fun, it didn't enhance realism, and it was definitely a tedious activity rather than a strategically implemented mini-game that forced users to be smart about where and how far they traveled. It was just annoying. So is planet scanning, but I didn't create this thread to beat a dead horse, So I'll get to the point.

Suggestions that I believe will improve the galaxy map for ME3 -

A) Navigation: I already made clear my preference for the cursor over the Normandy, so naturally I would prefer a digital arrow, cursor, icon or other similar designs be used over the tiny SR2 model (everytime I see the model I imagine Shepard making car noises while flying in circles). To sum this up, I want an icon that assumes the player is an actual soldier and not a toy collector.

Planets: Assuming that mining is included in ME (which it probably will be) I believe this design will compliment both systems. I propose that ME3 include the smallest  amount of planets in any ME game so far. Why? Artists, having only about 30-60 planets to design, can focus on making each celestial body unique and aesthetically pleasing (the same for writers and Codex entry's). But what about mining? The planet can still be rendered in the beautiful close-up view of ME, but upon pressing a button the player can "zoom" into a 3D rendering, making mining possible.

C) Mining: I'll eat my hat if somebody actually likes mining. Admittedly, mining isn't so bad after the lastest patch fixed most of the issues, but mining is still boring. To fix this, mining should have less importance in the long run. Like I mentioned earlier, I proposed a shrink in the amount of planets, so more resources should be available per planet (making "platinum runs" more bearable).

D) Fuel/Traveling: Again, like I stated above, the current fuel system hampered traveling rather than promote it. For starters, the Normandy was a gas-guzzler. Without the upgrade you could barely travel two clusters before having to make a return trip to buy more fuel. Like I said, annoying. At least fuel was cheap. Which is part of the problem. Bioware wanted to project an atmosphere of realism to the game by adding a fuel system (their words), but the relative cheapness of the fuel lessened that goal. Instead of planning where to go next, players could simply make several returns to a fuel station at next to no cost.

A possible solution could be to increase the Normandy's ability to store fuel at the price of higher expenses (it's realistic already!), that way players can feel like they can explore without having to worry about making a return trip, but at the same time take a moment to plan on what solar sytems they should explore next. Will I have enough credits to go to system x? Should I be attempting to explore system x when the reapers are attacking planet x? However, if the price for fuel is too high, players may not be able to explore very far. A possible fix for this is the fact that Shepard has the resources of the SB now - it's entirely possible that Shepard has the option to purchase a contract that passively restores a portion of his fuel.

A system like this gives the players an opportunity to strategically explore, while at the same time encouraging them to advance the story to receive the funds necessary to continue their voyages. Remember, the reapers are invading afterall. How much free time can Shepard have before being forced to deal with the threat the reapers present to organics?

Anyways, this was just a few complaints I had with the galaxy map and a few possible solutions to go along with my complaints. I agree that we, as a forum and a whole, do a lot of whining without the positive criticism to back up our raging. This thread was designed specifically to avoid such preconceptions.

Thoughts?

Modifié par -Skorpious-, 19 décembre 2010 - 06:22 .

[Googlesaurus]

I liked mining. I didn't like relying on mining. I didn't like being put in the spatial position of mining when I'm going to Omega or Ilium.

What happened to the original galaxy map in the '06 demo? That was one of the coolest things I've ever seen in a video game. Not only does it look awesome, it also looks like the kind of thing that would exist in the future.

Modifié par Googlesaurus, 19 décembre 2010 - 06:22 .

[Zulu_DFA]

ME2 Galaxy Map doesn't need constructive critisism. It needs to be destroyed with fire and replaced with the ME1 Galaxy Map.

[Xerxes52]

First of all, I don't like the fuel system at all. It discourages travel and is an unnecessary time and money sink. I think this is a great example of realism hurting the "fun factor", and it should go. Also I agree with Googlesaurus, the '06 demo's galaxy map was amazing.



And I definitely think that mining should take up less of the overall game time than in ME2. I would usually go on a mining binge early in the game to get it out of the way. It was more bearable than having to constantly mine throughout the game, but not by much.



*SPOILAZ*



Also, with Liara's "developments" in ME2 DLC, we should also get regular shipments of resources, provided players completed said mission.



*END SPOILAZ*

[schneeland]

I agree that the ME2 galaxy map must be banished and should live in shame until the end of dies in the depth of dark space.



However, I would wish it to be replaced with the 2006 design, replenished with a number of travel interrupts for inter-party banter.

[Fiery Phoenix]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

ME2 Galaxy Map doesn't need constructive critisism. It needs to be destroyed with fire and replaced with the ME1 Galaxy Map.

As much as it hurts me to say, but I completely agree with Zulu on this.

This is a great thread that was bound to be made at one point or another. Thanks for starting it, Skorpious. I hope it grabs BioWare's attention and I agree with everything remarked in the OP. Maybe I'll be back with some ideas later.

[Jorina Leto]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

ME2 Galaxy Map doesn't need constructive critisism. It needs to be destroyed with fire and replaced with the ME1 Galaxy Map.

I agree!

[Angel-Shinkiro]

I think they should also show which factions are currently in control of a region e.g. Local cluster is Alliance space, Widow is Council space and they should also have space traffic, to me the galaxy seems pretty empty.

[Angel-Shinkiro]

Edit double post.

Modifié par Angel-Shinkiro, 19 décembre 2010 - 07:54 .

[mattylee10]

I think Bioware have confirmed that the mining thing will appear in some form in ME3. i just hope that they get rid of the 'empty' systems ie systems where there is nothing interesting going on - no plot or N7 missions just more worlds to mine..

[sympathy4saren]

I preferred ME1's galaxy map. If they are going to keep the basic structure of ME2 though, my feedback would be to make the planets more realistic. Some of the planets, especially the gas giants, were a little cartoonish

[AdmiralCheez]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

ME2 Galaxy Map doesn't need constructive critisism. It needs to be destroyed with fire and replaced with the ME1 Galaxy Map.

Don't tell anyone that I said this, but Zulu is right.

At least the ME2 map kept the music and general aesthetic.  But the ship.  And the fuel.  And the mining.  Whyyyyy?

Plus it just felt so epic to be staring down at some massive alien world beneath me.  I felt like I was actually in space.

Modifié par AdmiralCheez, 19 décembre 2010 - 07:06 .

[Forsythia]

Flying around in that little ship didn't fit the game at all. That and the fuel system ruined exploring the map for me.

[Fiery Phoenix]

Admiral and Zulu agree on something. Someone should go out and see if the Sun isn't rising from the west!

[schneeland]

Maybe it will never rise again ...

[Clay Curragh]

I for one hope they do it like in the early demo build back in 2006.
What do you think?

[Googlesaurus]

Clay Curragh wrote...

I for one hope they do it like in the early demo build back in 2006.
What do you think?

Support thread for holographic map interface! 

[Tasker]

I couldn't agree more with the OP.



The ME2 system map was an idea that just didn't work.





The fuel and probe purchasing system would maybe have made sense if the game still had an economy model like ME1s that actually needed money sinks, but in a game that has a finite amount of money to begin with, a money sink makes no sense.



Whilst manually flying around the systems was a little bit tacky but un-offensive, the having to travel to a system, then fly off the edge of the map, then fly to another system, then fly from planet to planet to find minerals to mine, or the possibilty of finding a boring, linear - yet pretty, N7 mission, then do it in reverse to get back to a mass relay to start it all over again. - I just can't be arsed with it.



In a game that was butchered to make it "streamlined", they cocked it right up with the system map.

[Fiery Phoenix]

ME2's GM just felt very Spore-ish and toy-ish to me. I don't particularly hate it, but I don't believe it's in the right game. Either bring back the ME1 GM (with a few modifications, if they must) or let us use that "alpha" version featured in one of ME1's early trailers.



That's my two cents, basically.

[SmokePants]

The fuel system is there as a money sink to discourage strip-mining every single planet (a time sink). Same reason we have a limited number of probes.

If you are out in a remote system, you are more tactical and selective with where you deploy your probes, because you know there is a cost to going back and replenishing them. If that cost was mitigated or eliminated, many players would just indiscriminately spam the surface of a planet with probes and spend untold hours doing it. Not because it's fun, but because they might feel the game is compelling them to do so.

I'm not saying the system is perfect, or even good really. But at least there is some gameplay involved in the galaxy map. Aside from asteroid-hunting, ME1's galaxy map was a glorified menu.with loading screens.

If you don't approve of anything else, you have to at least acknowledge that the % explored numbers in ME2's map are a godsend. It was very difficult to keep track of where you had been in ME1.

Modifié par SmokePants, 19 décembre 2010 - 07:48 .

[Pacifien]

I didn't much like the ME2 map, particularly when it was filled with quests that were obscuring systems on the map and there was no way to toggle them off or, better yet, rotate the map. I would love if the galaxy map used in the old 2006 E3 demo was used.

[Googlesaurus]

SmokePants wrote...

The fuel system is there as a money sink to discourage strip-mining every single planet (a time sink). Same reason we have a limited number of probes.

I did strip-mine every planet in the game, and had money left over to buy every upgrade except for the med-bay. 

Modifié par Googlesaurus, 19 décembre 2010 - 07:51 .

[SmokePants]

I said it discouraged, not prevented. And by strip-mining, I mean throwing a probe at any little spike in the meter.

By the way, the med bay doesn't cost money. It costs platinum, which you should have a million units of, if you strip-mined everything.

Modifié par SmokePants, 19 décembre 2010 - 07:58 .

[Googlesaurus]

SmokePants wrote...

I said it discouraged, not prevented. And by strip-mining, I mean throwing a probe at any little spike in the meter.

By the way, the med bay doesn't cost money. It costs platinum, which you should have a million units of, if you strip-mined everything.

Ugh, I feel stupid today. That's the third mistake I've made in 10 minutes. 

If the fuel system was designed as a money sink to discourage strip-mining then it failed. The mining itself was a better deterrent because it ate into your playthrough and most players didn't want to search every little rock for a few more units of iridium. Refueling cost so little then I never considered how much money it took. 

Mining itself was just a time sink to extend the gameplay. 

Modifié par Googlesaurus, 19 décembre 2010 - 08:11 .

[uzivatel]

The mini-Normandy, probes and fuel were too gimmicky. The detailed ME1-like planet view was great, but it would be nice, if it could seamlessly transit into the ME2 planet view - I kind of like the signal tracking and even the mining was fun, if only for a short time.
The problem with mining was not the minigame itself, but rather the ammount of mining players had to do to get all the upgrades. I would rather have the mining as a bonus or shortcut to get the technology faster:
- keep the research station, but allow us to use credits instead of resources as an option
- place (barelly) enough credits in the game to let players buy all the important upgrades ... as long as they do all the sidequests and dont spend money on anything else
- let players, who spend mined resources to spend those saved credits on useless (but cool stuff)  like ship models, armour finishes, casual clothes, equipment and furniture for Shepards cabin, asari escorts, gifts for crewmembers (no DA:O like approval system though) etc. Even then make sure the amount of mining required to get those is not too high.

I liked the fact that we could see the quests on the galaxy map, but once we had too many, things got pretty bad - how about keeping only the names of the main hubs / story critical mission visible by default, while letting us toggle a description-free map (LB) or ME2 like full description (RB). Of course the full description would be shown for worlds that have cursor over them.
LT and RT to rotate a galaxy map would be nice if useless detail. 

Clay Curragh wrote...

I for one hope they do it like in the early demo build back in 2006.
What do you think?

As cool as it looks, I am not sure how user-friendly the thing is.

Modifié par uzivatel, 19 décembre 2010 - 08:28 .