155 réponses à ce sujet

[uzivatel]

Bennyjammin79 wrote...

E3 Demo style.

/thread

*insert your opinion*

/thread

because you know you are the smartest person around and you are always right

[Vena_86]

The biggest problem I have with ME2s galaxy map is that it is not a map!
You stand there on the bridge looking at the full galaxy map but once you zoom in you are "trapped" in the current solar system, to look beyond you actually have to physically fly out. When you then see the cluster you can not see all solar systems. So to find systems that are not in sight you have to fly arround, even spending fuel. To actually see the galaxy map like it is shown on the normandy bridge you have to fly to a mass relay and plot a course, only then can you see the map, Shepard is actually standing in front of.

Why is the camera fixed to the toy Normandy?
Why can you not freely zoom out, eventhough the full galaxy map is visible on the Normandy bridge?

These things are the reason why the galaxy map is not even a map but a simple and unrealistic presentation of space travel. It does not even make sense that you have to fly the Normandy in an ineffective manner (accidently "missing" a solar system, spending too much fuel).
You are the commander, the captain of this ship. You should tell your pilot where to go, having the whole mapped galaxy freely at your disposal at all times. For this, the galaxy map of the first game was actually superior. You felt more like the commander and the map had the functionality of a map.

I actually like the idea of fuel. Maybe it could be implemented in a more interesting way, or you should have the alternative you let your crew deal with it.
I also like some of the short stories that where hidden in some of the planetary descriptions, so I would not really call them inferior overall. I actually can not remember any interesting short stories in ME1s planetary descriptions.

Modifié par Vena_86, 19 décembre 2010 - 09:17 .

[SmokePants]

Googlesaurus wrote...

Mining itself was just a time sink to extend the gameplay. 

I think it was more about adding tangibility to the planets and making their presence fit into the gameplay picture as resource nodes. It was a time sink, but that wasn't the point.

I think mining will be back in some form, because they do want to have every planet serve a purpose in the game.

[Zulu_DFA]

they do want to have every planet serve a purpose in the game

Which is kinda stupid.

[Googlesaurus]

SmokePants wrote...

Googlesaurus wrote...

Mining itself was just a time sink to extend the gameplay. 

I think it was more about adding tangibility to the planets and making their presence fit into the gameplay picture as resource nodes. It was a time sink, but that wasn't the point.

I think mining will be back in some form, because they do want to have every planet serve a purpose in the game.

What do you mean "tangibility"? That Bioware wanted to implant player-planet interaction for those planets that were neither civilized world nor N7 missions?

I was a fan of mining. I hope it's more restrained though; ME2 mining became really ridiculous when you thought about it.  

Modifié par Googlesaurus, 19 décembre 2010 - 09:51 .

[glacier1701]

The 'fuel' system was intended to make you feel as if you were exploring (check out the N7 Development Diary vid on THIS page at about 1:45 into it) and were accomplishing something. It was NOT described this way when we first saw it and commented on it on the old forums but thats what it 'evolded into.





Anyways yes the ME2 map system really dragged you out of the feeling you were exploring because you couldnt see anything outside of the system/cluster when on those maps. Still I dont have much hope that this changes for ME3 because of who apparently thinks it was a great feature from within the ME dev team.

[BiancoAngelo7]

The ME2 galaxy map needs to be taken out back into a dark alley and double tapped in the back of the head with a desert eagle.



And yes, it deserves it.



For ME3 it should be what it was in ME1 with IMPROVEMENTS, not things that make it worse.



You remember those, right Bioware? Cmon you can say it with me...



IM-PRO-VE-MENTS



Remember those things you promised us after ME1? Yeah. THOSE.

[SmokePants]

Googlesaurus wrote...

What do you mean "tangibility"? That Bioware wanted to implant player-planet interaction for those planets that were neither civilized world nor N7 missions?

Rather than just having Planet X exist as a picture and a description, they basically let you fondle it and run your finger across it, making it more tactile and real. Landing on it would be better, but that's not realistic for every planet or even a decent portion of them.

[The-Person]

Bring back the navigation of ME1, but keep the planets 3Dish and more detailed.

[Pacifien]

BiancoAngelo7 wrote...
You remember those, right Bioware? Cmon you can say it with me...

IM-PRO-VE-MENTS

Remember those things you promised us after ME1? Yeah. THOSE.

I'm sure that approach makes the developers want to take your words into serious consideration.

No wait, actually...

[Googlesaurus]

SmokePants wrote...

Rather than just having Planet X exist as a picture and a description, they basically let you fondle it and run your finger across it, making it more tactile and real. Landing on it would be better, but that's not realistic for every planet or even a decent portion of them.

The concept is sound, but it only works if there are palpable differences that correlate to the physical differences between planets. The only real differences was the distribution and amount of minerals, and while this changed sensibly from planet to planet (rocky small planets > larger rocky planets > gas giants) it made the entire affair utilitarian instead of world-immersive. 

Plus a lot of those planets were inhabited and others were already being mined by corporations/slavers/etc. When you can strip-mine a planet willy nilly while ignoring the entire geth armada surrounding it, they start losing their individuality. 

Modifié par Googlesaurus, 19 décembre 2010 - 11:08 .

[matt-bassist]

I thought it would be obvious as to WHY Bioware changed the way you navigate the Galaxy Map? To make it more entertaining for the console generation. With a mouse, you literally just move it to where you want, but with a controller its lame moving a cursor around with the sticks. So, as a way to make the game more enjoyable for 360 Users they made you 'control a little Normandy ship" so that the console users got a bit more out of it.

[BiancoAngelo7]

Pacifien wrote...

BiancoAngelo7 wrote...
You remember those, right Bioware? Cmon you can say it with me...

IM-PRO-VE-MENTS

Remember those things you promised us after ME1? Yeah. THOSE.

I'm sure that approach makes the developers want to take your words into serious consideration.

No wait, actually...

Yes, my comment was sarcastic. But I believe that us venting with some sarcasm is the least they can expect when with the first game they give us extremely high levels of quality for several things, including the galaxy map, and then with ME2 we are essentially presented with what could be comparably called the pre-alpha code to the galaxy map, (and other things) in ME1.

Also, I am relatively sure that if the dev team decided to make such fundamentally atrocious design and strategy decisions when it came to things like the galaxy map in ME2 that my suggestion, no matter how well phrased or polite, is not going to change their minds or make them see the error of their previous decisions.

Essentially what I'm trying to say is that I cannot feel sorry for expressing myself with sarcasm or letting my feelings of dissapointment come through, even if in a harsh manner. This is because some of the decisions and utter degradation of quality in ME2 from ME1 warrants reactions such as mine.

And the Galaxy map is arguably the tip of the iceberg, because at the end of the day, there are almost just as many things that were made worse as there were made better when comparing ME2 to ME1.

And thats no way to make a sequel, much less inspire confidence or give hope for a qualitatively successfull trilogy.

Modifié par BiancoAngelo7, 19 décembre 2010 - 11:15 .

[Dominus]

Perhaps one issue that stems unanimously from people is that it doesn't really give a feeling of being immersed - it tends to feel more like you're moving a little toy ship rather an enormous, elite cerberus-class cruiser that has superiority to anything you'll find made in the galaxy. You could argue, and may be right, that it's the camera angle and constant zooming in and out that reminds you that you're playing a game instead. I remember seeing a video about The Old Republic's linear space combat, and feels relevant for the following reason - How do you implement the normandy into the mass effect galaxy map in something more like what TOR is using with staying inside "actual" space rather than a mini map, yet still keep it accessible to go from planet to planet, cluster, system, etc... The answer? I don't know yet, this is really just prodding in the dark, but a fire starts with a spark, doesn't it?

[Dominus]

After doing some brainstorming(though it feels more like brain-cooking…), here’s my concept. Ratchet and Clank, at least to a partial degree has it right in terms of moving from planet to planet. The problem that comes with that is the scale of planets and space - When your ship is almost as big as a planet, you know there’s a problem. Obviously you’re not going to be able to have an entire full scale planet for each one in a system, but you can at the very least IMPLY it… meaning even if you don’t come literally to the surface, you can at least come within a decent distance from a planet, cue the HUD to display the ability to land on said planet.



In regards to dealing with the enormous space of space(It’s infinite, so…) the answer is eloquently simple. Fire up the thrusters, baby! In regards to camera angle as I mentioned in the comment above, perhaps getting a more close-up third-person perspective to the Normandy. It may not be 100% realistic, but who really wants to be in Joker’s seat with EDI? O_o.



Again, this is just brainstorming. Still, could you imagine literally slingshotting through a mass effect relay in real time, rather than just some cinematic? It’d be like an adrenaline shot in the heart for the current ME2 map.

[mattahraw]

Pacifien wrote...

I didn't much like the ME2 map, particularly when it was filled with quests that were obscuring systems on the map and there was no way to toggle them off or, better yet, rotate the map. I would love if the galaxy map used in the old 2006 E3 demo was used.

I agree with this, we definitely need a toggle for those. Or they just appear when you highlight a system, not all the time.

Also, a push x for journal button would be nice, a little window (not fullscreen) could pop up about whatever mission you have highlighted with the cursor.

[TheJiveDJ]

Yes yes YESSS!!!  People who've seen what I've seen.  I disliked the "new" GM since I first layed eyes on it.  Yes, it did the job and it wasn't unbearable but c'mon....tiny little Normandy flying around the map?  Waay too tacky IMHO.  BioWare, you already had it right with ME1's galaxy map.  Why fix it if ain't broken?
My suggestions:

- Get rid of the "toy Normandy".  Bring back the cursor.

- No more flying around the map.  Just select where you wanna go, and you're there, like ME1

- Introduce a new type of passive collection probe.  You drop it on a planet and recieve minerals at a slow but steady pace where-ever you are in the galaxy...if you need minerals ASAP then you just mine the normal way.

- Speed up mining, larger reticule, faster scanning

- Get rid of fuel.  As one of the other posters said, money is much scarcer than in ME1 so money sinks like this are no longer needed.  it doesn't add realism, it's just a tedious task that takes you out of the game.  I'm the captain/commander of a star ship, I shouldn't have to micromanage my ships fuel resources.  That's what my crew is for.  I could extend that further to mining but it sounds like it's already confirmed for 3.

- Perhaps add a finite amount of random events while traveling such as: enemy boarding parties, pirates, smugglers, derelict ships, distress calls, etc.  That could be really cool.

- New or remixed version of the current galaxy map music.  It's a great song but it gets a tad old after two games.

- Please no space battles.  Again, I'm the commander of the ship, not the pilot / helmsman.  Don't take us out of the command role.  Perhaps Convo options to bark orders at your crew during a space battle would be cool but not controlling the ship itself.

- As the post above me said, being able to rotate the map would be very cool.  Option to toggle quest tags on/off would be appreciated.  Or design them so they don't obscure the map.

- Change the colour of the star system/cluster icon (the little circles).  Right now they are the same colour as the galaxy itself which makes spotting them difficult at times.  We need some contrast.  White perhaps? 

Modifié par TheJiveDJ, 20 décembre 2010 - 12:17 .

[Sir Ulrich Von Lichenstien]

Behold... ze E3 2006 demo



Got to admit, the Galaxy Map was awesome in that demo. I wonder why it was dropped?

[BiancoAngelo7]

Sir Ulrich Von Lichenstien wrote...

Behold... ze E3 2006 demo

Got to admit, the Galaxy Map was awesome in that demo. I wonder why it was dropped?

Hell, I could live with the fact that it was dropped in ME1 because the galaxy map that they put in ME1 was just full of so much win. But now that they've changed it to the horrible thing it is in ME2 it really makes me wish that we had anything, and I mean anything like the one in ME1 or the 2006 demo.

ME1 Galaxy map:

-Cursor navigation

-Detailed and varied codex descriptions

-AWESOME and BEAUTIFUL atmoshperic views when zooming in that made me feel like I was IN the Normandy (4 real)

-Planets that I could land on to explore and (even if sometimes cokie cutter land) had AMAZING space vistas

-Simple, easy to use and enjoy zoom in, zoom out system, no "manually fly to the relay" gimmick

-Some Planets had a quick scan option for small bonus or quest items, making you pause to read the codex for the planet (max. immersion min. tediousness)

-Ability to return to ANY world you previously landed on to explore, mess around or see if you missed something. (kinda not map related but still is)

-Excitement and sense of wonder of not knowing what you might find in the next cluster or system, even if that just meant finding an asteroid in an asteroid belt that you could scan for minerals or a quest item, instead of having everything spelled out for you in the ME2 map.



ME2 Galaxy Map:

-Toy ship (hooray Im 5 again) :| that you can fly in and out of stars, cuz hey, why the hell not?

-"Planets" all look the same (ie: basketballs)

-Absolutely ZERO graphical detail or beauty from space view, even when zoomed in

-Codex entries for many planets generic and bland

-MUCH fewer places you can actually land (N7 missions) and ZERO "wow" graphics, just quick in and out missions

-Sometimes you can land for an N7 mission on Gas giants? (not to mention "mine" them)

-Names of missions barfed all over the screen blocking my view of locations, not to mention just lazy and ugly presentation it provides

-I get to buy fuel micromanage my credits cuz in good ol' ME2 fashion, ME1 too many creds? Well now you get too little! Hooray!

-Once you land for an N7 or loyalty mission, you can never return. Because frankly, who would want to when the level design is basically a straight line? (but thats another topic)

-And last but CERTAINLY not least: That god awful mining game that the devs are still trying to peddle as "strangely addictive". Im sorry, you can say what you want about the Mako, but whether you liked it or not, any dev who is trying to convince others or themselves that its better to scan a basketball instead of IMPROVE upon the immersive space exploration that was in ME1 is just in denial. Or possibly under the effects of red sand. And no, this isnt strictly a map issue, but when you make the scanning/mining game part of the map it just adds insult to already severe injury.

And that ladies and gentlemen, in a nutshell, is why the galaxy map should at LEAST go back to how it was in ME1 and in my dreams it should be an improved version of what was in ME1.

Hell, keep the mining for all I care, but bring back the high standard of graphical, gameplay and immersion quality that was in ME1's galaxy map. I mean, for ME3 you could initially zoom in on a planet and get a beautiful atmospheric view like in ME1, then click on scan and go to (hopefully) an improved version of the scanning/mining game in ME2, since you guys seem hardcore determined to keep that thing in there....mumble, grumble mumble....

Modifié par BiancoAngelo7, 20 décembre 2010 - 12:59 .

[Dominus]

"Planets all look the same i.e. basketballs" It's a planet, what exactly were you expecting, a dodecahedron? o_O Perhaps adding more celestial objects is what may help the scenery? An asteroid belt or a neutron star here and there?



"-Names of missions barfed all over the screen blocking my view of locations, not to mention just lazy and ugly presentation it provides" Also something covered in the discussion, the ability to toggle it on or off(or perhaps to be able to select specific quests as "active" for the map.)



" That god awful mining game that the devs are still trying to peddle as "strangely addictive"." Well, I did enjoy probing uranus. Seriously though, it's probably not going away, but it's a very fair guess it's going to be redefined for the next game to be released.

[AllenShepard]

I think a healthy mix of the E3 demo and ME1's map would be jawesome. Also, I quite like there are so many planet models in ME2's map. Like that one planet in the Krogan system that was utterly destroyed and was just a bunch of rocks in a gravitational pull. That was cool as hell.

[Gibb_Shepard]

I have never encountered a thread where all users agree on a single matter, this is good progress. Perhaps the devs will see this thread.



My opinion, i dislike the toy ship greatly, i would much rather the ME1 galaxy map (with improvements obviously), or even better the E3 ME galaxy map, that looked sick.