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[expanding panic]

Why do a lot of people assume the Morrigan's "God Child" is going to be evil. Maybe I dont want to admit it because I like her but I can't see her doing something that would out the world into danger again after a blight. SHe knows what it is like and all of that because she went through it with the warden. Unless she doesn't realize their will be a consequence so drastic. I believe she even says That the darkness in the soul will go away. Not in those exact words but something to that affect. Is it just the achievement award saying A dark Ritual?

[JKA_Nozyspy]

Wrong forum mate. XD

[Fragglespank]

Am I the only one that thinks you posted this in the wrong forum?

[Cerberus Operative Ashley Williams]

expanding panic wrote...

Why do a lot of people assume the Morrigan's "God Child" is going to be evil. Maybe I dont want to admit it because I like her but I can't see her doing something that would out the world into danger again after a blight. SHe knows what it is like and all of that because she went through it with the warden. Unless she doesn't realize their will be a consequence so drastic. I believe she even says That the darkness in the soul will go away. Not in those exact words but something to that affect. Is it just the achievement award saying A dark Ritual?

Morrigan's god child might be essential in stopping the Reapers!!

[TJPags]

"Not necessarily evil"? Yes, you're the only one who thinks that. 

A lot of people think the OGB has a high potential for evil, judging by the number of people who seem to think you need to distrust her motives, be worried, etc.

I, on the other hand, may be the only one who sees no indication whatsoever that the OGB has any greater potential for evil than any other baby - perhaps less, since it has the soul of an Old God, and a mother who is very conscious of that fact.

Modifié par TJPags, 20 décembre 2010 - 01:21 .

[Shadow of Light Dragon]

I don't think it's necessarily evil. Potentially? Sure. Everything has the potential to be evil.



I do, however, think that if it was Flemeth's plan to bring the child into existence, if Flemeth intended to possess Morrigan, and if Flemeth doesn't die when you kill her, then it's questionable judgment to say the least that you're fulfilling Flemeth's plan and trusting Morrigan can not only keep the baby out of reach, but that she doesn't have an evil/power-hungry purpose of her own (say, possession, since she now has Flemeth's grimoire). Considering her disapproval to just about every 'good' act in the game, I can't see the OGB being a particularly benign force with Morrigan as a mother.

[errant_knight]

expanding panic wrote...

Why do a lot of people assume the Morrigan's "God Child" is going to be evil. Maybe I dont want to admit it because I like her but I can't see her doing something that would out the world into danger again after a blight. SHe knows what it is like and all of that because she went through it with the warden. Unless she doesn't realize their will be a consequence so drastic. I believe she even says That the darkness in the soul will go away. Not in those exact words but something to that affect. Is it just the achievement award saying A dark Ritual?

I don't see it as intrinsically evil at all. It was a mighty huge risk my warden took, though, since we have no idea if that child might be as vulnerable to darkspawn corruption as any other 'old god.' Morrigan might not know, either, and whatever Flemeth told her may not even be true. We have no idea. If it were to become an archdemon, well, that would be bad. All that we know so far is that it is likely very, very pretty, especially if the parents are Morrigan and Alistair.

Modifié par errant_knight, 20 décembre 2010 - 02:22 .

[Ryzaki]

I don't see it as evil. But with Morrigan as a mother it's liable to grow up into a selfish twit with the emotional maturity and understanding of a rock.

Selfish twits aren't bad. Selfish twits with loads of power? Very bad.

That's why I dislike the OGB.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 20 décembre 2010 - 02:23 .

[TJPags]

Ryzaki wrote...

I don't see it as evil. But with Morrigan as a mother it's liable to grow up into a selfish twit with the emotional maturity and understanding of a rock.

Selfish twits aren't bad. Selfish twits with loads of power? Very bad.

That's why I dislike the OGB.

Actually, do we really know if it has any "power"? Or what that "power" is?

[Reika]

Well, I always saw room for growth in Morrigan, but then again I saw that in all the companions after I actually talked with them long enough in the game. And I'd like to believe that Morrigan would try to do better than Flemeth after the time spent with the Warden and the others.



And I don't believe the OGB would be intrinsically evil, the impression I get with the Archdemons is that they were asleep and then get woken up Tainted. This is that soul being reborn without the Taint and a chance to start over.



Aside from a few characters in DAO, my Warden generally tried to give people a chance to start over and redeem themselves.

[errant_knight]

Reika wrote...

Well, I always saw room for growth in Morrigan, but then again I saw that in all the companions after I actually talked with them long enough in the game. And I'd like to believe that Morrigan would try to do better than Flemeth after the time spent with the Warden and the others.

And I don't believe the OGB would be intrinsically evil, the impression I get with the Archdemons is that they were asleep and then get woken up Tainted. This is that soul being reborn without the Taint and a chance to start over.

Aside from a few characters in DAO, my Warden generally tried to give people a chance to start over and redeem themselves.

I don't think being asleep plays a part on it, just that they call to the darkspawn who find them and taint them. Morrigan obviously doesn't think that will happen when the soul is in a human body, but I'm not sure she can really know that, given that it doesn't seem to have every happened before. And that Flemeth is unlikely to have been entirely forthcoming.

Of course, that didn't stop my warden from thinking the risk was worth it to save herself and Alistair. It was a selfish choice, though.

Modifié par errant_knight, 20 décembre 2010 - 02:44 .

[TJPags]

The Water God wrote...

Morrigan is evil. The archedemon is evil.

Evil+Evil= Evil.

Morrigan is evil?  Really?

Selfish I can see, but why do you think she's evil?

[ximena]

Shadow of Light Dragon wrote...

I don't think it's necessarily evil. Potentially? Sure. Everything has the potential to be evil.

This. I actually think (WARNING: WITCH HUNT SPOILERS) that if you murder knife'd Morrigan in WH, she will of course harbor some negative feelings and would then channel this unto the child. *shrugs*

I do, however, think that if it was Flemeth's plan to bring the child into existence, if Flemeth intended to possess Morrigan, and if Flemeth doesn't die when you kill her, then it's questionable judgment to say the least that you're fulfilling Flemeth's plan and trusting Morrigan can not only keep the baby out of reach, but that she doesn't have an evil/power-hungry purpose of her own (say, possession, since she now has Flemeth's grimoire). Considering her disapproval to just about every 'good' act in the game, I can't see the OGB being a particularly benign force with Morrigan as a mother.

Possessing the OGB holds little promise since the most important factor in the child is the soul/essence. And with possession, I believe the soul of the original body owner gets destroyed in the process of the possession.

[Shadow of Light Dragon]

errant_knight wrote...

... we have no idea if that child might be as vulnerable to darkspawn corruption as any other 'old god.'

Oh yes, this too!

All that we know so far is that it is likely very, very pretty, especially if the parents are Morrigan and Alistair.

And Uthemial supposedly being the Old God of Beauty.

Edit:

ximena wrote...

Possessing the OGB holds little promise since the most important factor in the child is the soul/essence. And with possession, I believe the soul of the original body owner gets destroyed in the process of the possession.

Knowing little of the DA process, how powerful the OGB is (and whether that power will rely on it possessing its soul), and Flemeth's capabilities considering she's not human, we can't really be sure on this either way, I suppose. Plus, no idea what kinda crap is in that grimoire. If there's a ritual to create a tainted baby that can trap the soul of an OG, why not a spell that can dominate but not displace that soul?

Modifié par Shadow of Light Dragon, 20 décembre 2010 - 02:54 .

[maxernst]

errant_knight wrote...

Reika wrote...

Well, I always saw room for growth in Morrigan, but then again I saw that in all the companions after I actually talked with them long enough in the game. And I'd like to believe that Morrigan would try to do better than Flemeth after the time spent with the Warden and the others.

And I don't believe the OGB would be intrinsically evil, the impression I get with the Archdemons is that they were asleep and then get woken up Tainted. This is that soul being reborn without the Taint and a chance to start over.

Aside from a few characters in DAO, my Warden generally tried to give people a chance to start over and redeem themselves.

I don't think being asleep plays a part on it, just that they call to the darkspawn who find them and taint them. Morrigan obviously doesn't think that will happen when the soul is in a human body, but I'm not sure she can really know that, given that it doesn't seem to have every happened before. And that Flemeth is unlikely to have been entirely forthcoming.

Of course, that didn't stop my warden from thinking the risk was worth it to save herself and Alistair. It was a selfish choice, though.

This is pretty much exactly the way, my PC saw it.  It was kind of his Gethsemane moment--Morrigan offered him a chance to avoid his/Alistair's fate and he took it in a moment of weakness or selfishness.  But I do think that Flemeth & Morrigan must be pretty confident that it won't be tainted, because another Archdemon would be of no use to them.  Morrigan could be wrong, but I have great confidence in Flemeth.  Nothing we know of the old gods suggests that they were particularly benign, even without Darkspawn corruption, however.

[Reika]

Just keep in mind, most of what we know about the Old Gods is from the Chantry which isn't exactly an unbiased source.

[maxernst]

Reika wrote...

Just keep in mind, most of what we know about the Old Gods is from the Chantry which isn't exactly an unbiased source.

Oh, I know...which is why I agree with errant knight that the old god may not be intrinsically evil. I still think that the DR is a harder for an HN character than for, say, a dwarf, because they would have been raised to believe the chantry, even if they do have doubts.

[frostajulie]

I do not believe the OGB is evil at all, neither do I believe Morrigan is evil. Morrigan has a set of beliefs that are different than the standard accepted beliefs of the chantry brainwashed Nation of Ferelden. I firmly believe 100% based off of my interactions with Morrigasn as a Mage of the circle that Morrigan is preserving something she believes should be preserved and not lost to the world. While I also believe Morrigan thinks she can benefit from this OGB I also don't think she has any malicious intentions at all. She may even have it in mind to use the OGB in some manner that would facilitate the destruction of the chantry or the liberation of the Mages and apostates of the nation.

[Ymladdych]

The Water God wrote...
Plus I think Morrigan considers Circle mages who believe magic should be watched over to be weak.

^^^ Correct.  In fact, her suggestion at the Tower is to let the Templars kill them all because they had allowed themselves to be "corralled like cattle."  I can believe that Morrigan is trying to selflessly preserve something, but mage emancipation probably isn't it.  Here's another rub about Morrigan and her motivations: even if they're selfless and objectively admirable in nature, that doesn't mean they're subjectively good or tragedy-free. 

Example: Uldred thought he was doing mages a favor by turning them into abominations.  He claimed he was "freeing them to fully evolve."  Then there's the Architect...was he a good guy?  I'd definitely say his intentions were good, but that doesn't mean that letting him go wouldn't threaten the people and things that my PC cherishes in her world. 

Now, since Morrigan is dabbling in stuff that could end very, very badly for...the world...the burden of proof is on her to make the Warden believe that her cause is worth it.  But she makes no serious case for herself at all, not even for her lover, which tells me that she strongly believes the Warden will not like or understand her way of thinking, and there's probably a very good reason she believes this to be the case.  (In other words, she's probably right.)  Either way, the player has to make a decision purely on blind belief and a sense of trust or mistrust.  In the case of my Warden, there's no way that she would hand over an OGB to someone who shows such a quick disregard for the lives of people she considers "weak" or "unworthy."  (See Exhibit A: Tower dialogue above.) 

[Ryzaki]

Yeah that itself makes it hard for any of my wardens to trust Morrigan. I wouldn't mind if she was a survival of the fittest type. But to suggest that someone deserves to die for daring to be born in a situation different than her own was sickening. She sounded so ignorant and childish that the thought of giving her any child to raise just boggles me.

[Todd23]

Morrigan is childish and malicious as you think, at first, she goes from suggesting the mages die, to saying killing the weak elvs of the alienage is "messy", even though it comes with a lengthened life, something she values highly. And by Witch Hunt, she asks: "Will you let me go?" and leaves herself open to being killed.

[Todd23]

Who said she's the first one to preserve an old god's life that way? She even calls it "old magic". If the soul of an old god is put in a mortal body, wouldn't the body still age but not truly die? ...hm Sounds familiar. (coughs)Flemeth(coughs) I mean come on, it sais in the game that her soul was imortal and her body wasn't because she was an abomintion, and Witch Hunt said she wasn't an abomintion. Everybody asumes that when you fight her she's shapeshifting into a high dragon and not revealing her true old god form. Flemeth's new hair due is probably because they changed there minds and decided Flemeth should be an old god. Flemeth probably intended on taking back the world the old gods once ruled, and Morrigan probably wants to stop her, hence that talk of needing time and power for the baby's destiny.