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Am I the only one that thinks Morrigan's "God Child" isn't necessarily evil


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#26
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Todd23 wrote...

Morrigan is childish and malicious as you think, at first, she goes from suggesting the mages die, to saying killing the weak elvs of the alienage is "messy", even though it comes with a lengthened life, something she values highly. And by Witch Hunt, she asks: "Will you let me go?" and leaves herself open to being killed.


Todd23 wrote...

Who said she's the first one to preserve an old god's life that way? She even calls it "old magic". If the soul of an old god is put in a mortal body, wouldn't the body still age but not truly die? ...hm Sounds familiar. (coughs)Flemeth(coughs) I mean come on, it sais in the game that her soul was imortal and her body wasn't because she was an abomintion, and Witch Hunt said she wasn't an abomintion. Everybody asumes that when you fight her she's shapeshifting into a high dragon and not revealing her true old god form. Flemeth's new hair due is probably because they changed there minds and decided Flemeth should be an old god. Flemeth probably intended on taking back the world the old gods once ruled, and Morrigan probably wants to stop her, hence that talk of needing time and power for the baby's destiny.



If I remeber correctly the whole convo didn't have one mention of protecting anyone but herself (other than wardena and OGB). I also hardly doubt that her thinking that killing the elves is a little messy, is Morrigan turning over a new leaf and being merciful to them. Sounds more like a cruel joke if you ask me.

Modifié par The Water God, 10 janvier 2011 - 03:55 .


#27
nos_astra

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TJPags wrote...
Actually, do we really know if it has any "power"? Or what that "power" is?

Magic, probably. It's mother is a mage and magic is hereditary. Plus, there has to be a point why Flemeth and Morrigan want this child.

#28
jaikss

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Now its been a while since I played that scene so my memory may be a bit off,but I dont recall Morrigan directly suggesting to killing the mages at the tower,but more along the lines of not interfering to the templars plan of killing all the mages inside as theyve deserved it?

Personally Ive always thought that scene was rather ..oddly written from Wynnes point "if you want to try and save the tower you'll have to take me with you or I will try to kill you" ,never really got the logic on that.

Ontopic no I dont think the ogb is evil in itself.As Ive understood it the whole purpose was to infact relase the old god from the corruption that was making it evil.With that said,da often being delightfully grey when it comes to the whole good vs evil,I have no doubt that whatever Morrigan has planned for the god child can be perceived as evil by some and as,if not exactly good,then atleast not evil by others :).

Modifié par jaikss, 10 janvier 2011 - 04:20 .


#29
sevalaricgirl

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I must be one of the few that really likes Morrigan. My warden can always talk Morrigan down, as in the circle tower. You have to understand where she comes from. She's an apostate, she's been taught to hate the chantry and the templars and taught that survival is the only way to go. She sees the circle mages as weak for following the chantry and the templars and I agree with her even as a Cousland. As far as the baby, my warden doesn't want to die and doesn't want Alistair to die. It is purely selfish. My warden is hardened too. She lost her mother and father, she thinks brother, sister in law and her nephew, her home and those she cared about. She and Alistair were really the only ones she cared about. It was merely duty and her love for Alistair as to why she defended Fereldon. If Alistair would have left, no doubt my warden would have left Fereldon and let others fight the darkspawn. In fact, in DAA, she tells Alistair that she doesn't want to be at Vigil's keep. She merely wants to stay at court and be his wife.

Modifié par sevalaricgirl, 11 janvier 2011 - 01:26 .


#30
DPSSOC

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I think the God Child will be evil, not because of Morriga, or the Old God thing, but because it is a child. Children are evil, completely and incurably, until about the age of 14 when they just become self obsessed (and to distracted by their obsession to be evil) and then the real world hits them and they've got to keep busy with jobs and stuff. So unless we catch this thing older than 21 it will be evil, and we will be doomed.



Note: my point about children, while accurate, was made in jest. Please take it as such.

#31
LobselVith8

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I don't understand why so many see Morrigan as evil for being pragmatic. She disapproves when you so silly side quests that detract from your main mission of saving all of Ferelden, like resolving a dispute over food or helping a Dalish boy score with his dream girl. In RL, she figures you need to resolve the dilemma that threatens all life, and you're busy playing match maker? She's helping you even after the dark ritual save a nation that's hunted her and others like her down to the death, and unlike the rapist Vaughan, a truly evil character, her goal is to preserve something no one has any real understanding of. The dark ritual consists of her wanting to preserve the soul of an old god untainted by darkspawn, and given her desire to be left alone, I don't see how this is evil. It's only a dark ritual because it involves blood magic, but all it does is preserve your life from the destruction of your body and soul.

#32
maxernst

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klarabella wrote...

TJPags wrote...
Actually, do we really know if it has any "power"? Or what that "power" is?

Magic, probably. It's mother is a mage and magic is hereditary. Plus, there has to be a point why Flemeth and Morrigan want this child.


The old gods talked to people through their dreams, the way that the Archdemon talks to the Darkspawn apparently.  Perhaps the child would have that power.  A good chance of being a mage, too, of course, particularly with Flemeth & Morrigan in its bloodline.

#33
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maxernst wrote...

klarabella wrote...

TJPags wrote...
Actually, do we really know if it has any "power"? Or what that "power" is?

Magic, probably. It's mother is a mage and magic is hereditary. Plus, there has to be a point why Flemeth and Morrigan want this child.


The old gods talked to people through their dreams, the way that the Archdemon talks to the Darkspawn apparently.  Perhaps the child would have that power.  A good chance of being a mage, too, of course, particularly with Flemeth & Morrigan in its bloodline.


I'm wondering if he'll be a normal child with a old god trapped in his body. Sorta of like the the fox demon thing or whatever (don't really watch anime) from Naruto.

#34
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LobselVith8 wrote...

I don't understand why so many see Morrigan as evil for being pragmatic. She disapproves when you so silly side quests that detract from your main mission of saving all of Ferelden, like resolving a dispute over food or helping a Dalish boy score with his dream girl. In RL, she figures you need to resolve the dilemma that threatens all life, and you're busy playing match maker? She's helping you even after the dark ritual save a nation that's hunted her and others like her down to the death, and unlike the rapist Vaughan, a truly evil character, her goal is to preserve something no one has any real understanding of. The dark ritual consists of her wanting to preserve the soul of an old god untainted by darkspawn, and given her desire to be left alone, I don't see how this is evil. It's only a dark ritual because it involves blood magic, but all it does is preserve your life from the destruction of your body and soul.


I agree she's not pure evil. And by witch hunt she's showing some improvement, she's more like Leliana during LS.

And she loses disapproval from the Lothering merchant if you don't take the money, not for wasting time. If you do take the money she actually gains approval. Same with the elves except im not sure if she gains approval for getting the guy smacked. =

Modifié par The Water God, 12 janvier 2011 - 03:53 .


#35
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DPSSOC wrote...

I think the God Child will be evil, not because of Morriga, or the Old God thing, but because it is a child. Children are evil, completely and incurably, until about the age of 14 when they just become self obsessed (and to distracted by their obsession to be evil) and then the real world hits them and they've got to keep busy with jobs and stuff. So unless we catch this thing older than 21 it will be evil, and we will be doomed.

Note: my point about children, while accurate, was made in jest. Please take it as such.


No worries, Morrigan says that "after but one night it could barely be called a child".

#36
LobselVith8

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The Water God wrote...

And she loses disapproval from the Lothering merchant if you don't take the money, not for wasting time. If you do take the money she actually gains approval. Same with the elves except im not sure if she gains approval for getting the guy smacked. =


Her comment about whether they're going to resolve every dispute in Lothering and how the darkspawn will be impressed does imply that she views it as the Warden wasting time, while one can argue that gaining money ultimately becomes benefical towards the goal of stopping the Blight by having the resources to purchase better weapons, equipment, and supplies.

At the Dalish camp, you gain approval for two quests where you can be mean to the quest-giver (and both of the situations involve someone they love), likely because Morrigan admits that she views love as a weakness. She questions this if she becomes romantically involved with the Warden.

#37
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LobselVith8 wrote...

The Water God wrote...

And she loses disapproval from the Lothering merchant if you don't take the money, not for wasting time. If you do take the money she actually gains approval. Same with the elves except im not sure if she gains approval for getting the guy smacked. =


Her comment about whether they're going to resolve every dispute in Lothering and how the darkspawn will be impressed does imply that she views it as the Warden wasting time, while one can argue that gaining money ultimately becomes benefical towards the goal of stopping the Blight by having the resources to purchase better weapons, equipment, and supplies.

At the Dalish camp, you gain approval for two quests where you can be mean to the quest-giver (and both of the situations involve someone they love), likely because Morrigan admits that she views love as a weakness. She questions this if she becomes romantically involved with the Warden.


Exactly helping people is a waste of time for her. Which is why she's not such a good moral character, she even thinks saving a village full of people is a waste of time when you're party is clearly capable of doing it.

We all know she lives on a survival of the fittest concept. Which is a pretty stupid concept, the whole point of Morrigan's story is to let her know it's okay to give into emotions.

But I don't really know how you can make a fair case of Morrigan not being evil by the fact that she's losing approval for the Warden not being focused on his job. That's usually why Sten is losing approval, and he doesn't consider helping the Lothering folks a waste of time (In fact just walking away loses approval from him.) And Morrigan's approval isn't effected if you just walk away. Showing she doesn't really care either way.

The point is Morrigan was raised by Flemeth. And so far Morrigan has started painting Flemeth as somewhat of an evil character. It seems Morrigan following Flemeth's teachings has elected to take some of the more cruel paths. The warden is supposued to show Morrigan that not everything Flemeth says is true.

#38
LobselVith8

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The Water God wrote...

Exactly helping people is a waste of time for her. Which is why she's not such a good moral character, she even thinks saving a village full of people is a waste of time when you're party is clearly capable of doing it.


Yes, she doesn't support aiding Redcliffe, but it honestly doesn't factor into winning the war or stopping the Blight. Morrigan makes the case that the Warden should focus on the imminent threat of the Blight and not on aiding the people of a single village. It's the same attitude she takes when you resolve the food dispute in Lothering. Considering these are the kind of people who typically shun Morrigan and mages like her, I don't see why anyone is surprised she has no empathy towards them. No one in this story is completely good or evil, they are all flawed. You can't become King or Queen unless you're a Human Noble, the people often criticize the idea that an elf is even a Grey Warden despite the fact that an elf stopped the last Blight, and the Denerim alienage was purged[/i] with no one giving a damn.

This is a society that keeps elves in a confined space, preaches how mages are evil and has some backward attitudes towards women. Murdock himself mentions his surprise if the Warden is a woman and his added concern if the Warden is also a mage. And everyone there is human because the homes of elves who manage to get out of the alienage and don't know their place are burned down. Should Morrigan suddenly have sympathy because these villagers, who likely would kill her without hesitation if they knew she was an apostate and weren't in fear of their lives, suddenly need the help of someone they would otherwise kill? Playing as an elven mage, plenty of people make note of the race and their distrust of magic.

The Water God wrote...

We all know she lives on a survival of the fittest concept. Which is a pretty stupid concept, the whole point of Morrigan's story is to let her know it's okay to give into emotions.

But I don't really know how you can make a fair case of Morrigan not being evil by the fact that she's losing approval for the Warden not being focused on his job. That's usually why Sten is losing approval, and he doesn't consider helping the Lothering folks a waste of time (In fact just walking away loses approval from him.) And Morrigan's approval isn't effected if you just walk away. Showing she doesn't really care either way.


She's pragmatic. The Warden is facing with stopping a threat that could destroy the world, and Morrigan encourages choices that enpower the Warden. Morrigan's decisions regarding the Anvil and the blood ritual at the alienage seem to focus more on enpowering the Warden to end the Blight than anything else. As for Redcliffe and Lothering, is there a reason she should care about a village of people who would kill her if they knew she was an apostate?

The Water God wrote...

The point is Morrigan was raised by Flemeth. And so far Morrigan has started painting Flemeth as somewhat of an evil character. It seems Morrigan following Flemeth's teachings has elected to take some of the more cruel paths. The warden is supposued to show Morrigan that not everything Flemeth says is true.


True, Flemeth raised Morrigan, and the Warden can establish a real bond regardless of those teachings, but I honestly don't see how she can be viewed as evil for her perspective. Morrigan's focus is on the Blight, on stopping an outright apocolypse, and in her POV, you're being side-tracked out of sentimental reasons that have nothing to do with the ultimate goal of defeating the Archdemon. She doesn't want to help because she thinks stopping the Blight that threatens the entire country is a greater concern than one single village. I don't see how anyone can honestly accuse her of being evil when Morrigan simply says what's on her mind, and supports the Warden regardless. Unlike Sten and Zevran, she never tries to murder the Warden, regardless of whether she likes the Warden or not. She's pragmatic, she wants the Warden to focus on the task at hand and not on side quests that do nothing to further the goal of ending the Blight. But many see her as evil because she's upfront about her perspective, and always mention the dark ritual despite the fact that she's honest about this, too.

To address the OP, I don't see how anyone can seriously think that she's evil because she wants to preserve the soul of an Old God no one understands because of Chantry Propaganda, something that would be extinct once the next two Blights transpire. All she wants to preserve an Old God, and is forthright about her plans to raise a child outside the influence of the Chantry. She tells you the truth, and unlike Sten or Zev, doesn't try to kill you at any point in the game if she dislikes you (and in a scene cut from the game, simply leaves if she discovers you never killd Flemeth). Morrigan is an interesting character. I don't see how her as evil, considering how she's helping the Warden save a nation that's hunted her down since she was a child and would kill her otherwise (in fact, in a scene that was cut from the game, you could actually turn her over to the templars if you sided against the Circle). Nothing Morrigan says in WH indicates that the child will be evil or used for an evil purpose. There's absolutely no evidence that the baby will be evil.

#39
Todd23

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1. Morrigan is awsome and I love her, she'll have to do something like try to destroy the world to convince me she's "evil", so using examples like she dissaproves of helping the twitchy little elv's girl problems won't cut it. 2. Why won't anyone comment on my theory about "Flemeth"?!

#40
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LobselVith8 wrote...

The Water God wrote...

Exactly helping people is a waste of time for her. Which is why she's not such a good moral character, she even thinks saving a village full of people is a waste of time when you're party is clearly capable of doing it.


Yes, she doesn't support aiding Redcliffe, but it honestly doesn't factor into winning the war or stopping the Blight. Morrigan makes the case that the Warden should focus on the imminent threat of the Blight and not on aiding the people of a single village. It's the same attitude she takes when you resolve the food dispute in Lothering. Considering these are the kind of people who typically shun Morrigan and mages like her, I don't see why anyone is surprised she has no empathy towards them. No one in this story is completely good or evil, they are all flawed. You can't become King or Queen unless you're a Human Noble, the people often criticize the idea that an elf is even a Grey Warden despite the fact that an elf stopped the last Blight, and the Denerim alienage was purged[/i] with no one giving a damn.

This is a society that keeps elves in a confined space, preaches how mages are evil and has some backward attitudes towards women. Murdock himself mentions his surprise if the Warden is a woman and his added concern if the Warden is also a mage. And everyone there is human because the homes of elves who manage to get out of the alienage and don't know their place are burned down. Should Morrigan suddenly have sympathy because these villagers, who likely would kill her without hesitation if they knew she was an apostate and weren't in fear of their lives, suddenly need the help of someone they would otherwise kill? Playing as an elven mage, plenty of people make note of the race and their distrust of magic.

The Water God wrote...

We all know she lives on a survival of the fittest concept. Which is a pretty stupid concept, the whole point of Morrigan's story is to let her know it's okay to give into emotions.

But I don't really know how you can make a fair case of Morrigan not being evil by the fact that she's losing approval for the Warden not being focused on his job. That's usually why Sten is losing approval, and he doesn't consider helping the Lothering folks a waste of time (In fact just walking away loses approval from him.) And Morrigan's approval isn't effected if you just walk away. Showing she doesn't really care either way.


She's pragmatic. The Warden is facing with stopping a threat that could destroy the world, and Morrigan encourages choices that enpower the Warden. Morrigan's decisions regarding the Anvil and the blood ritual at the alienage seem to focus more on enpowering the Warden to end the Blight than anything else. As for Redcliffe and Lothering, is there a reason she should care about a village of people who would kill her if they knew she was an apostate?

The Water God wrote...

The point is Morrigan was raised by Flemeth. And so far Morrigan has started painting Flemeth as somewhat of an evil character. It seems Morrigan following Flemeth's teachings has elected to take some of the more cruel paths. The warden is supposued to show Morrigan that not everything Flemeth says is true.


True, Flemeth raised Morrigan, and the Warden can establish a real bond regardless of those teachings, but I honestly don't see how she can be viewed as evil for her perspective. Morrigan's focus is on the Blight, on stopping an outright apocolypse, and in her POV, you're being side-tracked out of sentimental reasons that have nothing to do with the ultimate goal of defeating the Archdemon. She doesn't want to help because she thinks stopping the Blight that threatens the entire country is a greater concern than one single village. I don't see how anyone can honestly accuse her of being evil when Morrigan simply says what's on her mind, and supports the Warden regardless. Unlike Sten and Zevran, she never tries to murder the Warden, regardless of whether she likes the Warden or not. She's pragmatic, she wants the Warden to focus on the task at hand and not on side quests that do nothing to further the goal of ending the Blight. But many see her as evil because she's upfront about her perspective, and always mention the dark ritual despite the fact that she's honest about this, too.

To address the OP, I don't see how anyone can seriously think that she's evil because she wants to preserve the soul of an Old God no one understands because of Chantry Propaganda, something that would be extinct once the next two Blights transpire. All she wants to preserve an Old God, and is forthright about her plans to raise a child outside the influence of the Chantry. She tells you the truth, and unlike Sten or Zev, doesn't try to kill you at any point in the game if she dislikes you (and in a scene cut from the game, simply leaves if she discovers you never killd Flemeth). Morrigan is an interesting character. I don't see how her as evil, considering how she's helping the Warden save a nation that's hunted her down since she was a child and would kill her otherwise (in fact, in a scene that was cut from the game, you could actually turn her over to the templars if you sided against the Circle). Nothing Morrigan says in WH indicates that the child will be evil or used for an evil purpose. There's absolutely no evidence that the baby will be evil.


Look just to end this I'll say she's not  totally evil. But if this was KOTOR she would be in the red karma wise. Since there's no clear good or evil no one in this game is a ceartin alignment really, so it's pointless to say whether or not she's evil, because none of the party members are truly evil (Or else they wouldn't help you in the first place)

Morrigan's OGB is most likely gonna have a negative impact because you were suppoused to destroy the Arch Demons soul with your soul. Because you didn't (And now everyone somehow thinks you survived killing the AD) It's gonna likely not have the best outcome. Mostly since the OGB isn't canon it seems like it will have a negative impact.

Also Leliana, Wynne, and Zevran are the only party members that attack the PC. I'm not really sure where you got Sten from?

#41
Creature 1

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The Water God wrote...
Also Leliana, Wynne, and Zevran are the only party members that attack the PC. I'm not really sure where you got Sten from?

He can sometimes challenge you at Haven and attack you if you don't persuade him to back down. 

Also Morrigan's kid is not necessary evil, but definitely potentially dangerous. 

#42
LobselVith8

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Todd23 wrote...

1. Morrigan is awsome and I love her, she'll have to do something like try to destroy the world to convince me she's "evil", so using examples like she dissaproves of helping the twitchy little elv's girl problems won't cut it. 2. Why won't anyone comment on my theory about "Flemeth"?!


I don't think Flemeth is an Old God. Morrigan admits Flemeth's real backstory when you speak to her, and I think Flemeth was being truthful to her. Morrigan admits that Flemeth's memories are often colored by her emotions, but overall it seems to be the closest to the truth that we're given. I think Flemeth has become something entirely different than the usual abominations we've come across in the story, and her ability to see ten steps ahead of everyone (like when she told Maric that Loghain would betray him) makes me curious to find out exactly what she's become.

The Water God wrote...

Look just to end this I'll say she's not  totally evil. But if this was KOTOR she would be in the red karma wise. Since there's no clear good or evil no one in this game is a ceartin alignment really, so it's pointless to say whether or not she's evil, because none of the party members are truly evil (Or else they wouldn't help you in the first place)


Except it's easy to point out that despite the disagreements Morrigan can have with the Warden, she never attacks him for them. If you destroy the Urn, Leliana and Wynne have no problem murdering the Warden, despite the role they play in stopping the Blights; Zevran will betray the Warden to the Crows if his approval isn't high enough; and Sten will attack the Warden to gain leadership of the group at Haven. There's nothing that Morrigan says to even suggest that she's evil; even her offer of the dark ritual is all about preserving one of the last mysteries of the world (and for a Warden she's either good friends with or romancing, it's also about saving the life of the one she cares for).

The Water God wrote...

Morrigan's OGB is most likely gonna have a negative impact because you were suppoused to destroy the Arch Demons soul with your soul. Because you didn't (And now everyone somehow thinks you survived killing the AD) It's gonna likely not have the best outcome. Mostly since the OGB isn't canon it seems like it will have a negative impact.


Except the OGB can have an impact for people who import a DA save where the DR happened. I don't see why it would be evil just because it's an option choice in DA:O. I don't see why it would have a negative outcome, since I think Morrigan's trustworthy. From what Morrigan said in WH, Flemeth is the threat. The child could potentially help sway things in their favor to stop Flemeth. Given how little we even know about the Old Gods and how the corrupted nature of the Archdemon is now free of the taint because it was reborn inside Morrigan, I don't see why the outcome would be bad.

The Water God wrote...

Also Leliana, Wynne, and Zevran are the only party members that attack the PC. I'm not really sure where you got Sten from?


Sten attacks the Warden at Haven if you choose particular dialogue options. He actually approves if you fight him.

Creature 1 wrote...

Also Morrigan's kid is not necessary evil, but definitely potentially dangerous. 


That could be how Flemeth feels - the child could potentially be dangerous to Flemeth's existance, and her clandestine plans that Morrigan implied threatened everyone.

#43
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I don't think it's evil, but I think it's dangerous. I also don't think Morrigan is evil...just dangerous. Lol

#44
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[quote]LobselVith8 wrote...

[quote]The Water God wrote...

Look just to end this I'll say she's not  totally evil. But if this was KOTOR she would be in the red karma wise. Since there's no clear good or evil no one in this game is a ceartin alignment really, so it's pointless to say whether or not she's evil, because none of the party members are truly evil (Or else they wouldn't help you in the first place) [/quote]

Except it's easy to point out that despite the disagreements Morrigan can have with the Warden, she never attacks him for them. If you destroy the Urn, Leliana and Wynne have no problem murdering the Warden, despite the role they play in stopping the Blights; Zevran will betray the Warden to the Crows if his approval isn't high enough; and Sten will attack the Warden to gain leadership of the group at Haven. There's nothing that Morrigan says to even suggest that she's evil; even her offer of the dark ritual is all about preserving one of the last mysteries of the world (and for a Warden she's either good friends with or romancing, it's also about saving the life of the one she cares for). [/quote]

She says alot of things to suggest shes bad. And like I said She's not evil! The biggest thing she does is suggest killing the mages of the circle tower, she gets a kick out of killing the weak.


[quote]The Water God wrote...

Morrigan's OGB is most likely gonna have a negative impact because you were suppoused to destroy the Arch Demons soul with your soul. Because you didn't (And now everyone somehow thinks you survived killing the AD) It's gonna likely not have the best outcome. Mostly since the OGB isn't canon it seems like it will have a negative impact. [/quote]

Except the OGB can have an impact for people who import a DA save where the DR happened. I don't see why it would be evil just because it's an option choice in DA:O. I don't see why it would have a negative outcome, since I think Morrigan's trustworthy. From what Morrigan said in WH, Flemeth is the threat. The child could potentially help sway things in their favor to stop Flemeth. Given how little we even know about the Old Gods and how the corrupted nature of the Archdemon is now free of the taint because it was reborn inside Morrigan, I don't see why the outcome would be bad. [/quote]

I doubt its going to have a positive outcome, nothing so far has indicated why it would. Just because it's Morrigans doesn't mean she knows what she's doing or if its really doing anything that would benifit anyone except herself. Given her apperance in witch hunt she doesn't sound like she's really that interested in saving the world from anything. And given that it's called the Dark Ritual and involves putting and evil god's soul in a childs body suggests it could be potentially dangerous.

Also I would like to know where she mentions that the baby's free of its darkspawn taint? Are you talking about how she mentions that the baby won't be born a darkspawn?

Modifié par The Water God, 19 janvier 2011 - 01:50 .


#45
LobselVith8

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The Water God wrote...

She says alot of things to suggest shes bad. And like I said She's not evil! The biggest thing she does is suggest killing the mages of the circle tower, she gets a kick out of killing the weak.


Morrigan thinks they're weak for being under the regime of the Chantry. Nothing she said is factually incorrect, she's right that these mages accept being under the iron grip of the templars and have done nothing to gain freedom for themselves despite how they're treated by the armed and armored drug addicts. You can argue whether it would be feasible to rebel against the Chantry, but nothing about what Morrigan says is even the slighest bit incorrect. The Chantry treats mages as their slaves, and they accept it. With a high persuasion, the Warden can convince her she might have been in their footsteps if Flemeth didn't shield her from the templars.

The Water God wrote...

I doubt its going to have a positive outcome, nothing so far has indicated why it would. Just because it's Morrigans doesn't mean she knows what she's doing or if its really doing anything that would benifit anyone except herself. Given her apperance in witch hunt she doesn't sound like she's really that interested in saving the world from anything. And given that it's called the Dark Ritual and involves putting and evil god's soul in a childs body suggests it could be potentially dangerous.

Also I would like to know where she mentions that the baby's free of its darkspawn taint? Are you talking about how she mentions that the baby won't be born a darkspawn?


Evil? How is the Old God evil? The Archdemon is a corrupted Old God who has been poisoned by darkspawn taint, and all Morrigan is doing is preserving one of the last mysteries of the world that we honestly know next to nothing about. I see no reason to doubt Morrigan's intentions on this issue, since she clearly knows more about it than the Warden does.

You can watch the YT scenes with Morrigan discussing the OGB with the Warden. She makes it clear that it won't be the corrupted Archdemon that's preserved. I believe Gaider has even mentioned that the taint won't impact the child.

#46
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LobselVith8 wrote...

The Water God wrote...

She says alot of things to suggest shes bad. And like I said She's not evil! The biggest thing she does is suggest killing the mages of the circle tower, she gets a kick out of killing the weak.


Morrigan thinks they're weak for being under the regime of the Chantry. Nothing she said is factually incorrect, she's right that these mages accept being under the iron grip of the templars and have done nothing to gain freedom for themselves despite how they're treated by the armed and armored drug addicts. You can argue whether it would be feasible to rebel against the Chantry, but nothing about what Morrigan says is even the slighest bit incorrect. The Chantry treats mages as their slaves, and they accept it. With a high persuasion, the Warden can convince her she might have been in their footsteps if Flemeth didn't shield her from the templars.
.


Umm dude she suggests that if she was in the circle tower she would've killed herself. Then she suggests that you should kill them because they're okay with and have accepted their lives at the tower, instead of starting a rebellion and getting all mages in Fereldan killed.. Nothing in there suggests that killing is okay.

The Chantry treats mages as their slaves


By the way they're prisoners not slaves. They're there to be watched and locked up, not to do force labor for the Chantry.

#47
White_Buffalo94

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Shadow of Light Dragon wrote...

I don't think it's necessarily evil. Potentially? Sure. Everything has the potential to be evil.

I do, however, think that if it was Flemeth's plan to bring the child into existence, if Flemeth intended to possess Morrigan, and if Flemeth doesn't die when you kill her, then it's questionable judgment to say the least that you're fulfilling Flemeth's plan and trusting Morrigan can not only keep the baby out of reach, but that she doesn't have an evil/power-hungry purpose of her own (say, possession, since she now has Flemeth's grimoire). Considering her disapproval to just about every 'good' act in the game, I can't see the OGB being a particularly benign force with Morrigan as a mother.

I doubt Morrigan is willing to possess her own child. Especially if she and the Warden love each other. She wouldn't do that to him. Plus, Morrigan is not evil in the slightest. A realist and a blunt pragmatist, for sure. But evil? Not in any way, shape, or form. I think the OGB is going to be used as a weapon, defensive or offensive, for Morrigan. But she says that the child won't be evil or a monster or anything. The corruption of Darkspawn isn't being transferred into the baby, just Urthemiels soul. Speaking of which, the kid is gonna be a handsome one because he is now technically Urthemiel, the God of Beauty. Plus, hey, Morrigan is his mother.

I think the kid will develop EXTREME talents in magic and will be incredibly intelligent, and creepily enough, I think he will have a demonic or adult-deep voice at a young age. Hopefully not the latter, but that is how I imagine it

#48
White_Buffalo94

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The Water God wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

The Water God wrote...

She says alot of things to suggest shes bad. And like I said She's not evil! The biggest thing she does is suggest killing the mages of the circle tower, she gets a kick out of killing the weak.


Morrigan thinks they're weak for being under the regime of the Chantry. Nothing she said is factually incorrect, she's right that these mages accept being under the iron grip of the templars and have done nothing to gain freedom for themselves despite how they're treated by the armed and armored drug addicts. You can argue whether it would be feasible to rebel against the Chantry, but nothing about what Morrigan says is even the slighest bit incorrect. The Chantry treats mages as their slaves, and they accept it. With a high persuasion, the Warden can convince her she might have been in their footsteps if Flemeth didn't shield her from the templars.
.


Umm dude she suggests that if she was in the circle tower she would've killed herself. Then she suggests that you should kill them because they're okay with and have accepted their lives at the tower, instead of starting a rebellion and getting all mages in Fereldan killed.. Nothing in there suggests that killing is okay.


The Chantry treats mages as their slaves


By the way they're prisoners not slaves. They're there to be watched and locked up, not to do force labor for the Chantry.

Yes, during Exalted Marches, you think the Chantry is going to tolerate mages saying "No, we wn't fight for you"? No, they have killed mages for less than defiance before. The mages are slaves, just as the elves were, but in a different context

#49
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White_Buffalo94 wrote...

The Water God wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

The Water God wrote...

She says alot of things to suggest shes bad. And like I said She's not evil! The biggest thing she does is suggest killing the mages of the circle tower, she gets a kick out of killing the weak.


Morrigan thinks they're weak for being under the regime of the Chantry. Nothing she said is factually incorrect, she's right that these mages accept being under the iron grip of the templars and have done nothing to gain freedom for themselves despite how they're treated by the armed and armored drug addicts. You can argue whether it would be feasible to rebel against the Chantry, but nothing about what Morrigan says is even the slighest bit incorrect. The Chantry treats mages as their slaves, and they accept it. With a high persuasion, the Warden can convince her she might have been in their footsteps if Flemeth didn't shield her from the templars.
.


Umm dude she suggests that if she was in the circle tower she would've killed herself. Then she suggests that you should kill them because they're okay with and have accepted their lives at the tower, instead of starting a rebellion and getting all mages in Fereldan killed.. Nothing in there suggests that killing is okay.



The Chantry treats mages as their slaves


By the way they're prisoners not slaves. They're there to be watched and locked up, not to do force labor for the Chantry.

Yes, during Exalted Marches, you think the Chantry is going to tolerate mages saying "No, we wn't fight for you"? No, they have killed mages for less than defiance before. The mages are slaves, just as the elves were, but in a different context


nah slaves aren't given nice clothes and warm beds. Templars don't beat mages savagely for no reason whatsoever, infact they almost never beat mages. And the mages would be doing more than just sitting on their asses learning spells.

Saying that they're slaves is a little extreme. Prisoner would be a more correct term.

#50
HolyAvenger

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However you look at it, she's selfish, power-hungry, willing to sacrifice to get to her goals and pragmatic to the point of cruelty.



Values I would not want to be passed on to a child bearing soul (and power?) of an Old God. Risk my canon warden just won't take. Nuh-uh. Of course I plan to do a Morrigan romance playthrough ending in the DR.