44 réponses à ce sujet

[BelgarathMTH]

Does it bother anybody else that you can't create a fat character in the character creator? It bothers me, a lot.

I know it's possible for the game to depict a fat character, because some of the innkeepers have an obese body morph and head morph.

I like for my characters to look as much like me as possible. I can make my portrait look almost exactly like me IF I lost about 90 pounds.

I just don't identify with a slender character. How hard would it be to put some kind of lean-fat slider in the creator? Is the problem because of robes and armor grahpics?

 I wonder if some kind of mod is possible for this issue.

[Line of Ink]

You could try the DA character creation forum...someone there might have something like that...or they could make a mod if you ask nicely. people are pretty helpful around here.

[Line of Ink]

DSerpa wrote...

I recommend trying this.

who are you to tell this guy what to do? if hes happy as he is the whats the problem?

do you exercise and keep fit? if so, does this give you a higher moral authority over others who dont?

my friend goes on ten mile runs everyday, and is in the armed forces, does he get to look down on you because of this?

[Kevin Lynch]

Hmm. What do you think of Lyle?

<----

I agree, though, that it would be great if there were more body options. I guess the whole idea of an heroic character doesn't fit with certain body types, and that's a shame. I like non-stereotypical characters.

Modifié par Kevin Lynch, 20 décembre 2010 - 01:19 .

[Phoenix_Jackson]

 Just thinking for now.  Can't play the game and experiment yet.
But if it's the body form, I think the easiest would be to get those enormous armors like Sky's (sp?).  that is, unless if you decide to make a topless char (like me).  Also, most armors are just wide and don't insinuate a pot belly.  In that case, maybe modders like the creator of Natural Bodies could do you a favor as suggested above.  I say "yay" to options, regardless of taste or lifestyle.

Still random thoughts.

If there's an over-weighted NPC around Ferelden, Maybe try to steal his clothes.  I could think of 2 probable results.  It's the clothes.  Or, it's the body.  If it's the former, maybe you'll look like one if you wear it.  If it's the body...  Uhhhh.

If it's the head...

I think the best way to get satisfying results is to use the toolset.  There are video tutorials sticked on this forum.  I just dread and fear the toolset.  But maybe it is the only way.  Maybe I'll try myself.  Finally see if it really is "newb-friendly".  

I say yay to the OP for provoking thoughts and maybe challenge a mindless me to try those complex thingies like the toolset.

[BelgarathMTH]

Thanks, everybody. I laughed at DeSerpa's little joke. The whole thread is kind of tongue-in-cheek anyway. But I am basically okay with being a fat guy - I just plain love food and wine more than I love being in shape and sexy.

I mostly would like to be able to make my headmorph be a little more jowly with the cheeks, a little wider, and have a bit of double chin. I think it would add to realism. Once again, I know the game can do it because of those innkeepers.

I am interested from an academic standpoint in how people using a medieval technology dealt with weight gain vis a vis armor. Did they make any armor that someone fat could fit into? Also, one element of all RPG's that bothers me a little is the false convenience of dealing with plate mail. How did they actually get into and out of that stuff? I don't think the warrior could get into or remove it in real life without help from at least one and maybe a whole team of squires. I saw a Whoopi Goldberg movie once where she had to wear plate, and they said it had to be bolted on. They actually had to go to the bathroom in the plate and then have it flushed out by pouring water in the top and letting it run down and out! Ewww!

I guess we all put our armor on in games by spinning around like Linda Carter as Wonder Woman, our armor appearing on our bodies in a burst of magical light! (a delightfully hilarious image - imagine Alistair and Sten doing that while the Wonder Woman theme plays!)

Even with leather and buckles and straps, you wouldn't be able to get an outfit like that on or off by yourself.

I guess we're all using a lot of suspension of disbelief in these games. The reality of medieval technology and society was filthy, unsafe, violent, and horribly uncomfortable by today's standards. (No running water, no air conditioning, no cures for infectious diseases, etc. etc.) I like to tell myself that in a fantasy world with magic, the mages can solve these issues, making for a magically clean and comfortable environment.

Anyway, back to the weight issue, I would think that being fat wouldn't be any problem for a mage wearing robes. I can see where armor would be a problem.

I agree with Phoenix that some of the armor sets can kind of make you look fat, but then there's still the issue with head morphs.

Anyway, I was mostly just putting the idea out there for discussion, because I've never seen this talked about before. I think game devs just assume that nobody would be fat if they had a choice, so they don't make fat body and clothing morphs for players.

One notable exception is NWN1, which is the only game I've seen that has a realistic fat body morph as a choice, with all the clothing and armor to go with it. I always use that morph when I play NWN1.

Modifié par BelgarathMTH, 20 décembre 2010 - 04:51 .

[BelgarathMTH]

Kevin Lynch wrote...

Hmm. What do you think of Lyle?

<----

I agree, though, that it would be great if there were more body options. I guess the whole idea of an heroic character doesn't fit with certain body types, and that's a shame. I like non-stereotypical characters.

Kevin, I just saw this after I made that last post. The dwarven faces are exactly what I want! It's just that I'm a 6'4" giant of a man in real life, and that's what I like to play in games. Kind a jolly magical dude like the traditional Ghost of Christmas Present, or Santa, or Friar Tuck.

I wonder if the dwarf morph could be scaled up to human size?

[Zy-El]

Yes, it would have been nice to be able to choose different body types within each race as well as different heights. But, I know that would have expanded the game's size by several DVD's worth of graphics files. I guess it's enough to be able to customize head-morphs.

[Gorath Alpha]

BelgarathMTH wrote...

Does it bother anybody else that you can't create a fat character in the character creator? It bothers me, a lot.

I know it's possible for the game to depict a fat character, because some of the innkeepers have an obese body morph and head morph.

I like for my characters to look as much like me as possible. I can make my portrait look almost exactly like me IF I lost about 90 pounds.

I just don't identify with a slender character. How hard would it be to put some kind of lean-fat slider in the creator? Is the problem because of robes and armor grahpics?

 I wonder if some kind of mod is possible for this issue.

One or the other of Ningauble or Sheelba was corpulent, but the Belgarath character was lean, probably physically fit (I can't think of any other fat wizards, other than Lieber's, whichever one of the two it was).  Anyway, it's high fantasy, which today owes a great deal to Tolkien, who was slender, and either didn't like fat people, or didn't think that his fantasy had room for them.  When you go back to the earlier adult fiction, R E Howard's. Fritz Lieber's, and various from the 40's and 50s, there were heavier leading characters, occasionally.  

Personally, I'm older now, and it's far too easy to put pounds on, and far too hard to take them off (hard work, in fact), and even an extra 20 pounds or so feels like I've got twice that much to haul around, so I treat the 200 pound mark as scary, and 220 as horrible. Since I was at least relatively fit and free of excess weight right into middle age, the experience of bloating up was new to me a few years ago.  

[Phoenix_Jackson]

I think there's a work-around on this one. If it's just the head morph, and you like the dwarf face form, with some mods (maybe many), I think there's a way. Let's experiment... be back in ... uh... can I have some breakfast first?

First idea is out.  I guess the toolset would be best.  Sorry.

Modifié par Phoenix_Jackson, 20 décembre 2010 - 10:46 .

[BelgarathMTH]

Thanks anyway, Phoenix. I was only half serious anyway.

<Sigh>, I guess I'll have to let the game restore my youth, when I worked out hours a day and was cute, and I actually had a sex life. Watch out, Zevran and Alistair!

Fat wizards/clerics in literature and games: Kulgan of Feist's Riftwar Saga, Friar Tuck from Robin Hood as a cleric, Proetho from Heroes of Might and Magic IV, Ghost of Christmas Present from Dickens, and of course, Santa Claus. Traditional representations of Thor (real life, not comics version) from Norse art depict him as huge, bearded, and somewhat chunky. Can anyone else think of some? 

Modifié par BelgarathMTH, 21 décembre 2010 - 01:04 .

[Skadi_the_Evil_Elf]

While it is more logical that a rogue or Warrior would not be overweight, given the nature of their classes requiring great physical fitness, a mage character should be more open, since by nature, mages are alot less physically active, and mastery of their art requires mental, not physical fitness.



That said, suspension of disbelief is a reasonable arguement for a portly character. If skinny, pubescent elf females can achieve epic levels of strength and run around in plate armor wielding massive two handers and performing frequent decapitations on monsters 10 times their size, then really, it's less of a stretch for a chubby warrior/rogue to be successful at whatever they do.



And on a side note, it is good you accept yourself as being a viable inspiration for a RPG character even if your body does not match other people's expectations. Haters gonna hate. And bigger bellies take bigger blades to get through.

[maxernst]

@Belgarath, they certainly made armor for fat people...really, full plate (which was introduced very late in the medieval period) needed to be individually fitted, so you couldn't just walk into an armorer and buy a set anyway. I think that while older warriors might get a gut that a 20-year old warrior or rogue character really shouldn't be fat, realistically. Even Henry VIII was apparently slim and athletic as a young man. A mage could be fat, but I would think after a year of running around Ferelden, he'd surely shed a lot of the excess weight.



I find it interesting that people try to make their characters look like themselves. I can't say it's something I've ever done. I like trying on different personas.

[BelgarathMTH]

Skadi_the_Evil_Elf wrote...

While it is more logical that a rogue or Warrior would not be overweight, given the nature of their classes requiring great physical fitness, a mage character should be more open, since by nature, mages are alot less physically active, and mastery of their art requires mental, not physical fitness.

That said, suspension of disbelief is a reasonable arguement for a portly character. If skinny, pubescent elf females can achieve epic levels of strength and run around in plate armor wielding massive two handers and performing frequent decapitations on monsters 10 times their size, then really, it's less of a stretch for a chubby warrior/rogue to be successful at whatever they do.

And on a side note, it is good you accept yourself as being a viable inspiration for a RPG character even if your body does not match other people's expectations. Haters gonna hate. And bigger bellies take bigger blades to get through.

This! You go girl! Thanks, Skadi.

@Maxernst: Ah, Henry VIII! Another example of a powerful person who loved to indulge and became fat! Thanks, man.

Among very small children: Barney the Dinosaur and Big Bird. I find it interesting that children naturally gravitate towards rotund caretakers, as though cuddling up against a fat person makes them feel safe and warm, and are naturally afraid of muscular, hard-looking adults. I felt like this as a small child, long before the societal taboo against obesity was even part of my consciousness.

As another example: many representations of Buddha. I think that the fat Buddha is what westerners think of first when they think of Buddhism. Happy, smiling, absolutely content, complete in every way.

Modifié par BelgarathMTH, 21 décembre 2010 - 01:17 .

[Phoenix_Jackson]

 IIIIII did it!!!! First try!  But only made it a preset since I still don't know how to use the mor file.  But I did it!
So here's an album dedicated to you!
Just to show you that it is not that hard.  Seriously!  Not that hard!

Modifié par Phoenix_Jackson, 21 décembre 2010 - 12:46 .

[metatheurgist]

Skadi_the_Evil_Elf wrote...
That said, suspension of disbelief is a reasonable arguement for a portly character. If skinny, pubescent elf females can achieve epic levels of strength and run around in plate armor wielding massive two handers and performing frequent decapitations on monsters 10 times their size

I wouldn't use elves for that statement since they are genetically different from humans and may in fact have genetically higher muscle density, like how chimpanzees are supposed to have about 3 times the strength of humans despite being smaller. But the statement would still be true for skinny pubescent human females.

[BelgarathMTH]

Phoenix_Jackson wrote...

 IIIIII did it!!!! First try!  But only made it a preset since I still don't know how to use the mor file.  But I did it!
So here's an album dedicated to you!
Just to show you that it is not that hard.  Seriously!  Not that hard!

Wow, Phoenix, you're a miracle worker! A wizard of graphic design!

Can you make that head morph preset available for download?

I don't trust myself messing around with the toolset, since I don't have anywhere near your obvious skill with computers. I'd be about a second or third level computer mage to your twentieth level.

"Not that hard." LOL, great pun.  I love your sense of humor!

@Metatheurgist: Is that a Photoshopped Lucy Lawless in your character photo? Way cool! I never cease to be delighted and amazed at the creativity of people with computers.

Modifié par BelgarathMTH, 21 décembre 2010 - 03:41 .

[Phoenix_Jackson]

Hold on. I'm still panting from the adrenaline rush. And...
...uhhh...
I still don't know how to make it a working mor file. I can make it a mor file. I know where that mor file went. But I don't see it in game. And I don't want to delete *folder/folder/folder/folder/single player* just in hopes to make it work, since I'm in the middle of a run. I'm still reading some threads on the forums. Learning. And so far, a preset is like... hard!

If you want it sooner, I could share the preset as an mrh file. Which means you'll need to do about 4 clicks with the ... dreaded toolset. But it will be a preset. So you can still change some features to your liking. Maybe take off the stubble. I only put a stubble to mask the non-existing double-chin. It's still a preset, unlike a mor file where you won't be able to change any of it. But it's 284 KB if that matters.

But where should I upload it? Please not Nexus. I'll be totally laughed at with my work.... or maybe Nexus? So that atleast I'll have ONE tiny little thing I did on my profile? Ok now I'm laughing at myself imagining doing it.

Edit:
First time using winrar and compressing it... Wow!  It became 13.8 KB!  Yaay for learning!

Modifié par Phoenix_Jackson, 21 décembre 2010 - 04:13 .

[BelgarathMTH]

Don't worry about it too much, Phoenix. I'm in the middle of a runthrough myself, and I also don't want to risk messing it up or corrupting it.



Just to show you how little I know, I have no idea what a mrh file is or where it goes in the program. That sounds to me like one of the gifts the three wise men brought to the baby Jesus.



I have some idea what a mor file is, but I don't know where it goes in the program or how to replace one without using a dazip, a utility like that Change Your Head mod you linked to in the other thread, or putting something in my override folder.



But thanks so much for proving it can be done.

[Phoenix_Jackson]

 Well, I did it anyway (actually just uploaded the thing). Just to complete the whole journey.
So I've given toolset a shot.  I've learned a lot.  I tried compressing for the first time (even though I've heard about doing it since I had no wrinkles yet) and succeeded.  Uploaded on Nexus and finally done something to share rather than just downloading.
That's all thanks to your OP.

Modifié par Phoenix_Jackson, 21 décembre 2010 - 05:51 .

[Joy Divison]

BelgarathMTH wrote...

Thanks, everybody. I laughed at DeSerpa's little joke. The whole thread is kind of tongue-in-cheek anyway. But I am basically okay with being a fat guy - I just plain love food and wine more than I love being in shape and sexy.

I mostly would like to be able to make my headmorph be a little more jowly with the cheeks, a little wider, and have a bit of double chin. I think it would add to realism. Once again, I know the game can do it because of those innkeepers.

I am interested from an academic standpoint in how people using a medieval technology dealt with weight gain vis a vis armor. Did they make any armor that someone fat could fit into? Also, one element of all RPG's that bothers me a little is the false convenience of dealing with plate mail. How did they actually get into and out of that stuff? I don't think the warrior could get into or remove it in real life without help from at least one and maybe a whole team of squires. I saw a Whoopi Goldberg movie once where she had to wear plate, and they said it had to be bolted on. They actually had to go to the bathroom in the plate and then have it flushed out by pouring water in the top and letting it run down and out! Ewww!

I guess we all put our armor on in games by spinning around like Linda Carter as Wonder Woman, our armor appearing on our bodies in a burst of magical light! (a delightfully hilarious image - imagine Alistair and Sten doing that while the Wonder Woman theme plays!)

Even with leather and buckles and straps, you wouldn't be able to get an outfit like that on or off by yourself.

I guess we're all using a lot of suspension of disbelief in these games. The reality of medieval technology and society was filthy, unsafe, violent, and horribly uncomfortable by today's standards. (No running water, no air conditioning, no cures for infectious diseases, etc. etc.) I like to tell myself that in a fantasy world with magic, the mages can solve these issues, making for a magically clean and comfortable environment.

Anyway, back to the weight issue, I would think that being fat wouldn't be any problem for a mage wearing robes. I can see where armor would be a problem.

I agree with Phoenix that some of the armor sets can kind of make you look fat, but then there's still the issue with head morphs.

Anyway, I was mostly just putting the idea out there for discussion, because I've never seen this talked about before. I think game devs just assume that nobody would be fat if they had a choice, so they don't make fat body and clothing morphs for players.

One notable exception is NWN1, which is the only game I've seen that has a realistic fat body morph as a choice, with all the clothing and armor to go with it. I always use that morph when I play NWN1.

I'm no expert but I've hung around a few Medieval historians to comment on the academic standpoint you're fishing for.  Plate armor was ungodly expensive and reserved for the creme of the nobility and also specially fitted (like most things actually, even shoes); who had plenty of handlers and squires to don the armor for them (and good thing as I'm told it was impossible to put on yourself.  Basically the knight just stood there while is retainers suited him up).

As for the weight issue, while armor looks ungainly and cumbersome, even the heavist plate armor was made so the weight was evenly distributed and flexible enough to give the wearer a full range of motions; they could as easily jump on to a horse as they could chase down and catch an unarmored warrior (provided they were fit enough, or course).  Armor had to give its wearer this bodily flexibility and as such could not be tight fitting (think of loose fit style jeans) and thus could accommodate most people whose height and weight were somewhere near above or below average.  I'm guessing a skilled knight trained as a hosreman and martial combat would not be fat even if he were once was (hefty or stodgy perhaps but would still fit in armor), so armorers only had to worry about tall people like Peter the Great (dude was 6'8"). 

I'm told the Charlamagne had quite the pot belly and as king, I'm guessing he had ceremonial armor that could fit you just fine.  Of course, he was never on the battlefield so he didn;t have to worry about his fitness.

Modifié par Joy Divison, 21 décembre 2010 - 05:58 .

[BelgarathMTH]

@Joy: Thanks for the history info. That's about what I thought, although I didn't know they could make lightweight plate, and I didn't know that Charlemagne was a famous overweight hero. (I know some about his role in founding European territory and culture, I just didn't know about the overweight part.)


@Phoenix: Wow! You really delivered, my friend! Now I can finally look like myself in the game. I'm trying to endorse your download over at the Nexus, but so far the site won't let me. It wouldn't let me upload my image, either, so I'm about to try it here. If it works, this is very close to what I look like in real life. Now, if we can just get a realistic fat body to go with it. I'm not looking for morbidly obese or anything, just pot-bellied and round.

Modifié par BelgarathMTH, 21 décembre 2010 - 08:03 .