208 réponses à ce sujet

[sbrii]

I don't like the idea of having to make a choice, or having it made for me. If this does happen, I can just see a WHOLE lot of quitting and loading of a prior save. I often get called away from my game at a moments notice, and discovering that the dialogue has continued on without me, possibly forcing me into a fight, while I'm getting the kids back to bed sounds really annoying. A timed mission is one thing (trying to diffuse a bomb, or rescue a hostage) but I don't see any benefit to timing a dialogue choice.

[GreenSoda]

sbrii wrote...

I don't like the idea of having to make a choice, or having it made for me. If this does happen, I can just see a WHOLE lot of quitting and loading of a prior save. I often get called away from my game at a moments notice, and discovering that the dialogue has continued on without me, possibly forcing me into a fight, while I'm getting the kids back to bed sounds really annoying. A timed mission is one thing (trying to diffuse a bomb, or rescue a hostage) but I don't see any benefit to timing a dialogue choice.

Dialogue will be that more *cinematic*.

...though, if it's anything like AP (which I actually liked) it will just mean *a lot* of reloading for me.

[sbrii]

It will be more cinematic, that's true. But for me, it will also be more annoying. I just hate the thought of getting up to deal with something and coming back to discover a "Game Over" screen because I was gunned down in a fight I had no chance to avoid. I can't pause during dialogue currently, but the worst that happens is Shepard and friends stand there until I get back.

[Dominus]

Well to reiterate what I mentioned earlier in the topic, the more likely implementation of this will be very pick-and-choose similar to what they did with the intervention moments used in ME2. But yes, if you're in a position of constantly being called away, it wouldn't work out very well :-/ It's been confirmed so we should probably be spending less time discussing whether or not to have it in at all, and spent more time discussing on HOW and WHEN to apply it.



Do we want to see it used in 2 key decisions only, or more?

How often would you like to see it used in ME3?

Should the reprucussions of these "snap decisions" have lead-ins to combat, or just the it's-going-to-affect-how-the-game-ends type events?



Voice your opinions, be specific, be precise, and see if we can arrive to a majority consensus on some of these concepts.

[Quaay]

Ok...from Christina Norman's twitter: "what ray actually said is there would be improvements to the sense of visceral excitement in conversations and there are a variety of ways to do that. Ray always chooses his words very carefully, it's good to listen to exactly what he says and not to jump to conclusions!" twitter.com/truffle

Modifié par Quaay, 20 décembre 2010 - 10:55 .

[Had-to-say]

khawaja07 wrote...

Ponchoe wrote...

What are timed decisions?

Oh if you google it it'll appear as the first link but the vid aint loading for me.

it means that there will be a time cap and a minimum amount of time which will be given to you when your making choices

In theory doesn't this add a level to realism to an already awesome game. I can't see in anyway how this could be a bad thing. When it comes to conversation with all powerful machines that can wipe out biological existence as we know it . You would need some confidence in your decision but I'm certain they aren't going to let you deliberate your course of action in the middle of a war. That is the true nature of war. Think on your feet. The title of this post  is unwarranted. But I am not the voice of the community , but personally I see it as a means to heighten the intensity.

In life there are no clear cut right answers this  moral gray area is what makes Mass Effect better than all games in my opinion. The truth of war is life and death can be decided in all under a few seconds.  As painful as that may be it doesn't bend because we think it is unfair. Life is frustrating and there will come times in your life where you too will make life and death decisions and let me tell you it is never easy and you always want for more time, that you simply will not get. This is not a post to put anyone down. I'm just talking about the nature of reality. Life doesn't wait for you to get your affairs in order. Neither should Mass Effect the Reapers are coming!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The only way to insure that people aren't goind back and replay from a save point is to make a series of decison that must be made in one save succession that way the only way to get a do over is to play that section in it's entirety. Kinda like the last mission where you have to assign duties. This was brilliant.  A point of no return if you will. Life often times doesn't give us second chances.  War isn't generous and doesn't give second chances. If you loose a leg you don't go back a plot a different path to avoid the land mine do you?  Heavy Rain is an awesome game by the way.
 
Mass Effect can be a game that actually gives virtual PTSD. The lack of which Modern Warfare has yet to add. There are psychological consequences of war. Death and murder has it's prices. Mass Effect and go into a realm no other form of media has ever attempted and elevate itself above all other forms of entertainment. Like Heavy Rain.  Decisons that can't be made twice is also another option to achieve this virtual PTSD. I know for a fact this is something I have felt was lacking in Gears of War.  To me violence without consequence is irresponsible. Yet gears with it's narrative talks of the mental fatigue but never show it. This will surely elevate videogames as a truer form of art than even movies.  I'd like to thank Heavy Rain. I like my post to hell with Ebert's opinions.

After Shepard has experienced deep emotional loss can his decision making process be altered?  Is he more violent in his actions?  Are certain paragon choices left off the table? Can Shepard suffer emotinal breakdown and fall into depression? Mass Effect has changed the landscape of gaming forever.  It is in a class all it's own and there are no compettitors. Thanks HHG.

Modifié par Had-to-say, 21 décembre 2010 - 12:56 .

[catabuca]

Quaay wrote...

Ok...from Christina Norman's twitter: "what ray actually said is there would be improvements to the sense of visceral excitement in conversations and there are a variety of ways to do that. Ray always chooses his words very carefully, it's good to listen to exactly what he says and not to jump to conclusions!" twitter.com/truffle

Considering Ray's only word was 'Yes' I'm not sure where she's expecting us to go with that one.

[Dominus]

I don't think Ms. Norman was referring to the yes comment apparently there was another conversation about, well, conversations.(the one listed in the twitter quote) My personal interpretation of what ray is saying is that he's using every helpful tool of conversation-based gameplay elements to produce a rich, diverse experience that still feels like Mass Effect, but goes far enough in new directions to feel fresh. Or something like that.

Modifié par DominusVita, 20 décembre 2010 - 11:38 .

[Had-to-say]

Had-to-say wrote...

khawaja07 wrote...

Ponchoe wrote...

What are timed decisions?

Oh if you google it it'll appear as the first link but the vid aint loading for me.

it means that there will be a time cap and a minimum amount of time which will be given to you when your making choices

In theory doesn't this add a level to realism to an already awesome game. I can't see in anyway how this could be a bad thing. When it comes to conversation with all powerful machines that can wipe out biological existence as we know it . You would need some confidence in your decision but I'm certain they aren't going to let you deliberate your course of action in the middle of a war. That is the true nature of war. Think on your feet. The title of this post  is unwarranted. But I am not the voice of the community , but personally I see it as a means to heighten the intensity.

In life there are no clear cut right answers this  moral gray area is what makes Mass Effect better than all games in my opinion. The truth of war is life and death can be decided in all under a few seconds.  As painful as that may be it doesn't bend because we think it is unfair. Life is frustrating and there will come times in your life where you too will make life and death decisions and let me tell you it is never easy and you always want for more time, that you simply will not get. This is not a post to put anyone down. I'm just talking about the nature of reality. Life doesn't wait for you to get your affairs in order. Neither should Mass Effect the Reapers are coming!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The only way to insure that people aren't going back and replaying  from a save point is to make a series of decison that must be made in one save segment  that way the only way to get a do over is to play that section in it's entirety. Kinda like the last mission where you have to assign duties. This was brilliant.  A point of no return if you will. Life often times doesn't give us second chances.  War isn't generous and doesn't give second chances. If you loose a leg you don't go back and plot a different path to avoid the land mine do you?  Heavy Rain is an awesome game by the way.
 
Mass Effect can be a game that actually gives virtual PTSD. The lack of which Modern Warfare has yet to add. There are psychological consequences of war. Death and murder has it's prices. Mass Effect can go into a realm no other form of media has ever attempted and elevate itself above all other forms of entertainment. Like Heavy Rain.  Decisons that can't be made twice is also another option to achieve this virtual PTSD. I know for a fact this is something I have felt was lacking in Gears of War.  To me violence without consequence is irresponsible. Yet gears with it's narrative talks of the mental fatigue but never show it. This will surely elevate videogames as a truer form of art than even movies.  I'd like to thank Heavy Rain. I like my post to hell with Ebert's opinions.

After Shepard has experienced deep emotional loss can his decision making process be altered. Is he more violent in his actions. Are certain paragon choices left off the table. Cana renegade Shepard suffer emotinal breakdown and fall into depression.  Mass Effect has changed the landscape of gaming forever.  It is in a class all it's own and there are no compettitors. Thanks HHG.

I think I said something profound. If I must say so myself. Why should Mass Effect lower it's standards and try to become a lower form of entertainment.

Modifié par Had-to-say, 21 décembre 2010 - 12:20 .

[Pwner1323]

I like the idea. I'd go with it.

EDIT: Alpha Protocol sucked.

What? It did.

Modifié par Pwner1323, 20 décembre 2010 - 11:50 .

[aeetos21]

I think it would work best if they allowed players to bring up the pause screen during these "timed decisions." Or maybe disable it in the gameplay options - that shouldn't be too hard. But for those players who like the idea of "oh **** oh **** oh ****! seconds to spare - make a damn decision already!" I think that would make ME3 much more engaging and interesting.



you have to remember ME franchise is as much a movie as it is a game. i personally love movies that are filled with suspense were the hero has to make snap judgments. still i like the idea of BW giving players a choice in the matter even more.

[Had-to-say]

Virtual PTSD. Let me elaborate. In combat with virtual relationships when a character/s suffer great loss it can sometimes permantely alter said characters mental state. This stress can cause lack of peak performance and increased paranoia and rush to judgement. Deeper more profound mental injury can also mean a host of metal illnesses. Now what this would mean for gameplay I can only imagine but Heavy Rain does a good job with voices in the head and trembling hands and mood swings. How these features could work in Mass Effect are promising. Do you guys want it?

Modifié par Had-to-say, 21 décembre 2010 - 12:11 .

[Pwner1323]

Had-to-say wrote...

Virtual PTSD. Let me elaborate. In combat with virtual relationships when a character/s suffer great loss it can sometimes permantely alter said characters mental state. This stress can cause lack of peak performance and increased paranoia and rush to judgement. Deeper more profound mental injury can also mean a host of metal illnesses. Now what this would mean for gameplay I can only imagine but Heavy Rain does a good job with voices in the head and trembling hands and mood swings. How these features could work in Mass Effect are promising. Do you guys want it?

Yup

Modifié par Pwner1323, 21 décembre 2010 - 12:13 .

[Dominus]

To an extent, yes - Just not necessarily in the bleak, dramatic styling of Heavy Rain. But the Virtual PTSD could certainly have adverse affects from anywhere from combat, to affecting certain events within dialogue. Trying to implement real-life effects like certain types of sickness or injury were an important asset to Fallout 3 and New Vegas - If BW chooses to go a similar route with psychological trauma, it could prove interesting indeed.

[Had-to-say]

If you loose a squad mate as seen in many war movies it can create a "Rambo" effect where a character is temporarilly rendered enraged. Also with close emotional loss it can leave you emotinally depressed and unmotivated, drained. How this could affect my Shepard could be interesting. How we as players choose to combat this reality can add a new wrinkle to the gameplay.



The consequences of war are far too many to count now lets start adding them to our videogame vocabulary. I think this is healthy and morally responsible.

[Bogsnot1]

I see this as a good thing. We already have one example of a timed decision in ME2. The Suicide Mission. Save the crew or keep building team.

Certain missions almost demand a response within a given time. As someone else pointed out, Tali's loyalty mission is one example. The "Save Crashing Ship" is another. How about Grunt. Leave him for too long and he should go beserk, well, more beserk.

For those that see this as a bad thing, let me ask you this.

Do you want every playthrough of the game to be exactly the same? Sure, you can change gender and alignment, but after 2-3 playthroughs, it becomes the same game with a different class.

Timed decisions allows greater replayability, as you get the chance to do things differently, moreso than just gender and alignment.

[TomY90]

i have mixed opinion on the whole timed decisions but really depends on what decisions etc they are.



If they do it where the time limit depends on the difficulty you set varying to off (easy) to e.g. 24 hours (insane and not meant any link to the TV series 24). I think that might be good.



but if its only for select missions that might make sense. but would rather have the ME2 system where urgent missions you go straight there.



but if there is a time limit throughout the game i would absolutely demand for a free roam feature after everything is over (if of course you survive)

[Jaron Oberyn]

So who is this "homie"?



-Polite

[Destroy Raiden_]

As long as they use it where appropriate like if I'm having a normal conversation with Mordin and there is no crisis then I can leave it on dialogue select till the cows come home but for instance with Tali's trial that was a great time to implement the 3 minute make a decision or we pick neutral response for you ie timed dialogue. I didn't like the interrupts in 2 cuz they where too fast by the time I registered which trigger button the selection was it was usually gone so if they do this in portions of 3 but make it a decent time like 3 - 5 minets then I'm fine with it.

[Destroy Raiden_]

Had-to-say wrote...

Virtual PTSD. Let me elaborate. In combat with virtual relationships when a character/s suffer great loss it can sometimes permantely alter said characters mental state. This stress can cause lack of peak performance and increased paranoia and rush to judgement. Deeper more profound mental injury can also mean a host of metal illnesses. Now what this would mean for gameplay I can only imagine but Heavy Rain does a good job with voices in the head and trembling hands and mood swings. How these features could work in Mass Effect are promising. Do you guys want it?

Clock Tower 3 applied this method if the character got too scared she'd literally be tripping all over the place and you'd need to find a place to hide. More recently Haunting Grounds did this too but she wouldn't just fall down she could become so scared she'd no longer move which added to heighten my own fear and concern for her I need to be sure she could run and find a decent hiding spot before the enemies found her again.

I like the idea of characters getting scared or acting off depending on the game for me if they put this in 3 at appropriate places it'd bring some horror into the game which I would prefer .I guess Shep would be unsteady when shooting?  I don't think BW could do mood swings unless they're prescripted like in the party banter sheps getting too stressed due to the decisions the player is making and so a para yells at squad mate and a ren just gets more foul mouthed?

The only game I've played where the emotional health of the character was key to their performance in battle and in social situations was an import Neon Genesis Evangelion. For instance one of the main characters Rei is already socially awkward well I,as the player can make her more so! I can literally make her to the most happiest girl ever and she excels in her mech combat and at school or I can make her to most depressed thing walking and she sighs, cries, and is moody while in her apartment. Socially talking to npcs gets harder some avoid you sense say you hit on that guy in mech support and he was only trying to be friends! Now he wants nothing to do with you and her coordination suffers with her mech. If she's get too depressed her mech unit will no longer respond and she'll literally a sitting duck outhere waiting to die.

So if BW could do it in away that it effects sheps life both professionally and romantically and on top of that effect how well he does in battle I could possibly enjoy it.

[Destroy Raiden_]

Had-to-say wrote...

If you loose a squad mate as seen in many war movies it can create a "Rambo" effect where a character is temporarilly rendered enraged. Also with close emotional loss it can leave you emotinally depressed and unmotivated, drained. How this could affect my Shepard could be interesting. How we as players choose to combat this reality can add a new wrinkle to the gameplay.

The consequences of war are far too many to count now lets start adding them to our videogame vocabulary. I think this is healthy and morally responsible.

I'd like excessive drinking to also be part of it shepard gets depressed when he's solo drinking in the ship's bar and in public he gets hilarious and can't walk like main character does in Red Dead Redemption!

I like your idea of the rambo effect so if I bring my LI and she dies while in combat do I get an extended rambo effect? 

[maxut85]

 I did not like the interrupt system at all because of that exact reason. I mean like 20 times in the game it has annoyed me. I'll put the controller down to watch something, a paragon/ option will appear, I'll rush to my controller to press it but It will dissapear before I get there. Even worse I'll figure the last load was like forever ago. I know I should just be more careful and interrupts aren't that big of a deal. But I still just hate having timed decisions. I like to really think about my decisions.

[Uszi]

DominusVita wrote...

Do we want to see it used in 2 key decisions only, or more?
How often would you like to see it used in ME3?
Should the reprucussions of these "snap decisions" have lead-ins to combat, or just the it's-going-to-affect-how-the-game-ends type events?

Voice your opinions, be specific, be precise, and see if we can arrive to a majority consensus on some of these concepts.

Two key, so I'm not accidentally doing the wrong thing.

It should only be done at critical junctures if it's going to greatly affect the story.  If I'm going to be choosing to save this dirtball colony or that one, then maybe more frequent.  If all of the choices are like, save the Citadel vs save Earth, then there really should only be a couple.

The reprocusions should be both.  I think failing to act, or acting too briskly should trigger combat.  I support them drastically affecting the ending of the game as well.

There's my vote.