68 réponses à ce sujet

[EnforcerGREG]

first let me say this is not a query into how competant a ruler Anora is because I already know she was an exeptional ruler and based on past epilogues I have acheived is even better ruler when paired with a hardnend alistair.

I just read the wiki and apparantly based on the info at PAX Calien was planning to leave Anora for Empress Celene but this was cut from the story and only resufaced at Return to Ostagar in the letters.

In the letters it hints at Anoras infertility. What im asking is do you guys think Anora was Infertile or was it Calian who had the Problem as he was known to be unfaithful yet Alistair is the only known heir.

This is a subject of concern for me as im in the process of creating my final playthrough which to import into DA2 which has Alistair and Anora married. I like to think that in the 10 year time span there will be at least one heir.

[The Blue bird]

EnforcerGREG wrote...
This is a subject of concern for me as im in the process of creating my final playthrough which to import into DA2 which has Alistair and Anora married. I like to think that in the 10 year time span there will be at least one heir.

The possiblity of the two having an heir is oretty much zero. There is no proof either way as to who was the problem between Cailan and Anora. If the problem was Cailan however that doesn't help either as Grey Wardens have a severely reduced chance of conception. Thus giving a similar situation to the Cailan & Anora one.

OT: I like how this fact ruins the "future" of the Alistair-Cousland relationship. But I'm a jerk like that.

[EnforcerGREG]

The Blue bird wrote...

EnforcerGREG wrote...
This is a subject of concern for me as im in the process of creating my final playthrough which to import into DA2 which has Alistair and Anora married. I like to think that in the 10 year time span there will be at least one heir.

The possiblity of the two having an heir is oretty much zero. There is no proof either way as to who was the problem between Cailan and Anora. If the problem was Cailan however that doesn't help either as Grey Wardens have a severely reduced chance of conception. Thus giving a similar situation to the Cailan & Anora one.

OT: I like how this fact ruins the "future" of the Alistair-Cousland relationship. But I'm a jerk like that.

Two Grey wardens it's negative chance. Not so with one warden evidence
Fiona/Maric=Alistair
Warden/Morrigan no dark ritual but did sleep with each other at least once= Normal boy in witch hunt

Modifié par EnforcerGREG, 20 décembre 2010 - 01:38 .

[ejoslin]

The Blue bird wrote...

EnforcerGREG wrote...
This is a subject of concern for me as im in the process of creating my final playthrough which to import into DA2 which has Alistair and Anora married. I like to think that in the 10 year time span there will be at least one heir.

The possiblity of the two having an heir is oretty much zero. There is no proof either way as to who was the problem between Cailan and Anora. If the problem was Cailan however that doesn't help either as Grey Wardens have a severely reduced chance of conception. Thus giving a similar situation to the Cailan & Anora one.

OT: I like how this fact ruins the "future" of the Alistair-Cousland relationship. But I'm a jerk like that.

Yet a male warden can get Morrigan pregnant even if he doesn't do the dark ritual.

And how does this ruin Ali+Cousland?  the warden can actually tell Alistair that she's trying for an heir with someone else.  Not all marriages are love matches!

[TJPags]

Okay, first, you know Alistair isn't Caillan's son, right? He's Maric's, making him Caillan's half brother.



That said, we have no idea whether Anora was infertile, or Caillan was sterile. As I recall, Anora is the one who says Caillan was unfaithful. Was it true? I have no idea - she may simply be trying to make herself a more sympathetic figure. Who knows.



She doesn't remarry if you put her on the throne by herself. Perhaps a selfish move, perhaps she simply isn't into sex. Again, who knows. (personally, the whole "no man measures up to her father" thing is somewhat creepy to me).



Now, as for Alistair, we're told that Grey Wardens are less fertile than normal people - so putting a Grey Warden on the throne, not a great idea if you're looking for an heir that way.



As for me personally, unless my warden marries Anora, I really don't care about an heir for Ferelden. Not my problem.



I will say that if you don't get an heir within 10 years, you probably won't. Anora is supposed to be about 27 in Origins, I think, and I can't see her having children in her late 30's.

[EnforcerGREG]

ejoslin wrote...

The Blue bird wrote...

EnforcerGREG wrote...
This is a subject of concern for me as im in the process of creating my final playthrough which to import into DA2 which has Alistair and Anora married. I like to think that in the 10 year time span there will be at least one heir.

The possiblity of the two having an heir is oretty much zero. There is no proof either way as to who was the problem between Cailan and Anora. If the problem was Cailan however that doesn't help either as Grey Wardens have a severely reduced chance of conception. Thus giving a similar situation to the Cailan & Anora one.

OT: I like how this fact ruins the "future" of the Alistair-Cousland relationship. But I'm a jerk like that.

Yet a male warden can get Morrigan pregnant even if he doesn't do the dark ritual.

And how does this ruin Ali+Cousland?  the warden can actually tell Alistair that she's trying for an heir with someone else.  Not all marriages are love matches!

Isn't the whole point of putting alistair on the throne to keep the Therrin bloodline going.

[EnforcerGREG]

TJPags wrote...

Okay, first, you know Alistair isn't Caillan's son, right? He's Maric's, making him Caillan's half brother.

That said, we have no idea whether Anora was infertile, or Caillan was sterile. As I recall, Anora is the one who says Caillan was unfaithful. Was it true? I have no idea - she may simply be trying to make herself a more sympathetic figure. Who knows.

She doesn't remarry if you put her on the throne by herself. Perhaps a selfish move, perhaps she simply isn't into sex. Again, who knows. (personally, the whole "no man measures up to her father" thing is somewhat creepy to me).

Now, as for Alistair, we're told that Grey Wardens are less fertile than normal people - so putting a Grey Warden on the throne, not a great idea if you're looking for an heir that way.

As for me personally, unless my warden marries Anora, I really don't care about an heir for Ferelden. Not my problem.

I will say that if you don't get an heir within 10 years, you probably won't. Anora is supposed to be about 27 in Origins, I think, and I can't see her having children in her late 30's.

Yeah sorry should have been more clear I meant alistair was the only Therrin alive who could take the throne because there was no evidence of calian having any bastards

[ejoslin]

EnforcerGREG wrote...

ejoslin wrote...

The Blue bird wrote...

EnforcerGREG wrote...
This is a subject of concern for me as im in the process of creating my final playthrough which to import into DA2 which has Alistair and Anora married. I like to think that in the 10 year time span there will be at least one heir.

The possiblity of the two having an heir is oretty much zero. There is no proof either way as to who was the problem between Cailan and Anora. If the problem was Cailan however that doesn't help either as Grey Wardens have a severely reduced chance of conception. Thus giving a similar situation to the Cailan & Anora one.

OT: I like how this fact ruins the "future" of the Alistair-Cousland relationship. But I'm a jerk like that.

Yet a male warden can get Morrigan pregnant even if he doesn't do the dark ritual.

And how does this ruin Ali+Cousland?  the warden can actually tell Alistair that she's trying for an heir with someone else.  Not all marriages are love matches!

Isn't the whole point of putting alistair on the throne to keep the Therrin bloodline going.

Well, I figured the point was to unite the land and end the blight.  Eamon may have his thoughts, but that doesn't mean a Queen Cousland has to agree with him.

[EnforcerGREG]

ejoslin wrote...

EnforcerGREG wrote...

ejoslin wrote...

The Blue bird wrote...

EnforcerGREG wrote...
This is a subject of concern for me as im in the process of creating my final playthrough which to import into DA2 which has Alistair and Anora married. I like to think that in the 10 year time span there will be at least one heir.

The possiblity of the two having an heir is oretty much zero. There is no proof either way as to who was the problem between Cailan and Anora. If the problem was Cailan however that doesn't help either as Grey Wardens have a severely reduced chance of conception. Thus giving a similar situation to the Cailan & Anora one.

OT: I like how this fact ruins the "future" of the Alistair-Cousland relationship. But I'm a jerk like that.

Yet a male warden can get Morrigan pregnant even if he doesn't do the dark ritual.

And how does this ruin Ali+Cousland?  the warden can actually tell Alistair that she's trying for an heir with someone else.  Not all marriages are love matches!

Isn't the whole point of putting alistair on the throne to keep the Therrin bloodline going.

Well, I figured the point was to unite the land and end the blight.  Eamon may have his thoughts, but that doesn't mean a Queen Cousland has to agree with him.

Fair enough. but that is kinda what the post is for me finding out if it's possible to keep the line going. Because i really liked the idea of alistairs Human/Elven herritage ruling.

[TJPags]

EnforcerGREG wrote...

TJPags wrote...

Okay, first, you know Alistair isn't Caillan's son, right? He's Maric's, making him Caillan's half brother.

That said, we have no idea whether Anora was infertile, or Caillan was sterile. As I recall, Anora is the one who says Caillan was unfaithful. Was it true? I have no idea - she may simply be trying to make herself a more sympathetic figure. Who knows.

She doesn't remarry if you put her on the throne by herself. Perhaps a selfish move, perhaps she simply isn't into sex. Again, who knows. (personally, the whole "no man measures up to her father" thing is somewhat creepy to me).

Now, as for Alistair, we're told that Grey Wardens are less fertile than normal people - so putting a Grey Warden on the throne, not a great idea if you're looking for an heir that way.

As for me personally, unless my warden marries Anora, I really don't care about an heir for Ferelden. Not my problem.

I will say that if you don't get an heir within 10 years, you probably won't. Anora is supposed to be about 27 in Origins, I think, and I can't see her having children in her late 30's.

Yeah sorry should have been more clear I meant alistair was the only Therrin alive who could take the throne because there was no evidence of calian having any bastards

That's what I thought you meant, but it was a little unclear, so I figured I'd make sure.

Now, while there is no evidence of Caillan having any bastards, there is also little evidence - except for what Anora tells you - that he cheated on her.  Personally, I'm not sure she's being honest there, or at least, not sure that she knows this for certain.  For all we know, Caillan and Loghain's fight over the Queen had to do with Anora always turning him down.

I'm not trying to put the lack of an heir all on her by any means, but simply saying we have no idea why there wasn't one.  Could be his fault, could be her fault (in terms of ability) or could simply be lack of interest on one or the other's part.

[ejoslin]

EnforcerGREG wrote...

ejoslin wrote...

EnforcerGREG wrote...

ejoslin wrote...

The Blue bird wrote...

EnforcerGREG wrote...
This is a subject of concern for me as im in the process of creating my final playthrough which to import into DA2 which has Alistair and Anora married. I like to think that in the 10 year time span there will be at least one heir.

The possiblity of the two having an heir is oretty much zero. There is no proof either way as to who was the problem between Cailan and Anora. If the problem was Cailan however that doesn't help either as Grey Wardens have a severely reduced chance of conception. Thus giving a similar situation to the Cailan & Anora one.

OT: I like how this fact ruins the "future" of the Alistair-Cousland relationship. But I'm a jerk like that.

Yet a male warden can get Morrigan pregnant even if he doesn't do the dark ritual.

And how does this ruin Ali+Cousland?  the warden can actually tell Alistair that she's trying for an heir with someone else.  Not all marriages are love matches!

Isn't the whole point of putting alistair on the throne to keep the Therrin bloodline going.

Well, I figured the point was to unite the land and end the blight.  Eamon may have his thoughts, but that doesn't mean a Queen Cousland has to agree with him.

Fair enough. but that is kinda what the post is for me finding out if it's possible to keep the line going. Because i really liked the idea of alistairs Human/Elven herritage ruling.

My initial response was actually to a different point.  I don't think Alistair will have an heir, tbh.  His fertility is low, and it looks like the country is going to fall back to civil war anyway.

[EnforcerGREG]

[quote]TJPags wrote...

[quote]EnforcerGREG wrote...

[quote]TJPags wrote...

Okay, first, you know Alistair isn't Caillan's son, right? He's Maric's, making him Caillan's half brother.



Yeah sorry should have been more clear I meant alistair was the only Therrin alive who could take the throne because there was no evidence of calian having any bastards
[/quote]

That's what I thought you meant, but it was a little unclear, so I figured I'd make sure.

Now, while there is no evidence of Caillan having any bastards, there is also little evidence - except for what Anora tells you - that he cheated on her.  Personally, I'm not sure she's being honest there, or at least, not sure that she knows this for certain.  For all we know, Caillan and Loghain's fight over the Queen had to do with Anora always turning him down.

I'm not trying to put the lack of an heir all on her by any means, but simply saying we have no idea why there wasn't one.  Could be his fault, could be her fault (in terms of ability) or could simply be lack of interest on one or the other's part.[/quote]
 
Although it was cut from the story Gaider confirmed that calian was planning to leave anora for Celene whether this has any impact on the finished product once it was reintroduced or calians character is up to us.

Modifié par EnforcerGREG, 20 décembre 2010 - 02:02 .

[TJPags]

EnforcerGREG wrote...

TJPags wrote...

EnforcerGREG wrote...

TJPags wrote...

Okay, first, you know Alistair isn't Caillan's son, right? He's Maric's, making him Caillan's half brother.

Yeah sorry should have been more clear I meant alistair was the only Therrin alive who could take the throne because there was no evidence of calian having any bastards

That's what I thought you meant, but it was a little unclear, so I figured I'd make sure.

Now, while there is no evidence of Caillan having any bastards, there is also little evidence - except for what Anora tells you - that he cheated on her.  Personally, I'm not sure she's being honest there, or at least, not sure that she knows this for certain.  For all we know, Caillan and Loghain's fight over the Queen had to do with Anora always turning him down.

I'm not trying to put the lack of an heir all on her by any means, but simply saying we have no idea why there wasn't one.  Could be his fault, could be her fault (in terms of ability) or could simply be lack of interest on one or the other's part.

 
Although it was cut from the story Gaider confirmed that calian was planning to leave anora for Celene whether this has any impact on the finished product once it was reintroduced or calians character is up to us.

Yes, but there's nothing in that which tells us that Anora was infertile, or that he was, or that they weren't in love, etc.  I fact, I'm pretty sure DG didn't say WHY this was going to happen.  It could have been that Caillan thought this would be a better thing for Ferelden, even though it broke his heart.

So, this information does nothing to change my opinion on this topic at all.

Modifié par TJPags, 20 décembre 2010 - 02:20 .

[errant_knight]

Both Alistair or Anora are viable and rule well, either separately of together. It is virtually certain that whoever you pick, they will not have an heir, though. That was set up far too carefully to be an accident. At some point in the DA series, rule of Ferelden is more likely than not to become a plot issue. If you make that a deciding factor in picking a ruler, you're whistling into the wind.

Modifié par errant_knight, 20 décembre 2010 - 02:12 .

[TJPags]

Mezzil wrote...

TJPags wrote...
 As I recall, Anora is the one who says Caillan was unfaithful. Was it true? I have no idea - she may simply be trying to make herself a more sympathetic figure. Who knows.

It doesn't sound like she would be lying about that. She says Cailan was unfaithful when you try to get Alistair and Anora married when the PC has a romance active with Alistair. She just wants to know what she's getting into with marrying Alistair. If you refuse to tell her what will happen to your relationship with Alsitair, Anora will break the deal off. If you tell her you aren't going anywhere, she will still go along wiht marring Alistair.

The VO notes on this don't tell she's lying either. The notes say she really hated how Cailan cheated on her, and that she hopes it doesn't happen again with Alistair.

Well, I've never played a female character, nor have I ever tried to marry Anora and Alistair, so I've never seen this.  I do recall her saying something like "Caillan had his women" when I speak to her about who to put on the throne, or about a possible marriage as a HNM - don't recall which.  But it's not definitive, IMO, and it kind of comes at an odd time - just the way she says it, in response to an innocuous question, makes me wonder if it's true.

As to the VO notes, again, never saw them, don't give them much credence.  The way she says it, it really seems like a toss in line to me.

[Skadi_the_Evil_Elf]

errant_knight wrote...

Both Alistair or Anora are viable and rule well, either separately of together. It is virtually certain that whoever you pick, they will not have an heir, though. That was set up far too carefully to be an accident. At some point in the DA series, rule of Ferelden is more likely than not to become a plot issue. If you make that a deciding factor in picking a ruler, you're whistling into the wind.

This. 100%. The way the choices are set up and the epilogue slides roll, it doesn't matter who ends up on the throne: ain't gonna be any heirs to take over. And I agree it was deliberately set up like this. Alistair is last of the Therins, and Anora is last of the Mac Tirs. so when either or bite the dust, there is going to be a major crisis over the throne.

[Addai]

IMO chances are very low that Anora + Alistair would produce an heir. Alistair is of lessened fertility, Anora is of questionable fertility, and they hate each other. Do the math.

I'm pretty sure the story is set up so that there won't be an heir, but if you're concerned about it, I would say that Alistair ruling alone or Cousland marrying Anora would be the best chance of that happening. We know that Anora ruling alone never remarries, and at least it would give Alistair a chance to marry someone he likes.

Modifié par Addai67, 20 décembre 2010 - 04:55 .

[CalJones]

Yes, none of the possible outcomes gives much hope for an heir, unfortunately, so your best bet is just to concentrate on Fereldan's immediate future and who you'd think would be best for that. Put it this way, one of England's greatest monarchs, Elizabeth I, did not marry or have children, yet is revered to this day.

[Persephone]

CalJones wrote...

Yes, none of the possible outcomes gives much hope for an heir, unfortunately, so your best bet is just to concentrate on Fereldan's immediate future and who you'd think would be best for that. Put it this way, one of England's greatest monarchs, Elizabeth I, did not marry or have children, yet is revered to this day.

It was part of her greatness that she never submitted to this "expectation". Using her hand in marriage as a political tool was one of her many brilliant tactics. I could see Anora, if not married to Prince Cous Cous or Chantry Boy (Sorry, I'm kinda mad at Ali atm) , doing the same.

[Addai]

It's not really brilliant to let your line end without an heir. Besides, the epilogue doesn't say that she does this for political reasons but for personal ones. It's a personal weakness in my view- not wanting to share power.

[MKDAWUSS]

No heir period is the easiest solution to accommodate all DAO outcomes. Also, it was something hinted at time and time again, not to mention all the other choices are meaningless in the end.

[Corker]

Addai67 wrote...

It's not really brilliant to let your line end without an heir. Besides, the epilogue doesn't say that she does this for political reasons but for personal ones. It's a personal weakness in my view- not wanting to share power.

"I would rather be a beggar and single than a queen and married."
-- Elizabeth I of England, last of the Tudor line

[Addai]

I believe Anora was modeled after Queen Elizabeth.