285 réponses à ce sujet

[jillyfae]

The important thing about finding a beta, as is clearly illustrated by the way Jaer and Sia are going around and around what they ask their betas to do, is to make sure you both know what you're looking for in a beta.

Do you just want someone to check for technicalities? Make sure you're using proper vocabular and grammar, that you didn't suddenly drop into, oh, german syntax if english is your second language, for example? Do you want story responses? Characterization notes? Just an overall 'yes it worked for me' or 'no it didn't'? Do you want a quick note, a short response, or do you want them to wield the red pen all over your document with anything they can think up?

If you and your beta(s) have different expectations going into working together, you're just going to end up not helping each other much, and quite possibly hurting each other's feelings.

This is a very good piece on the topic by Patricia Wrede. Who writes very good fantasy and YA stuff. IMHO, of course. ^_~

Modifié par jillyfae, 21 décembre 2010 - 08:14 .

[Severyx]

Yo, Sialater, you have a great conversation going on, and I'ma let you finish, but Going Dark chapter 14 is out! It's out!

[JaerWolfe]

Sialater wrote...
Oh, believe me, I'm having them check for consistencies like that.  I'm just not going to have them check for things I can do myself.  You have the luxury of a lifelong Beta.  As wonderful as my Betas are, they're busy women.  The last thing I want to do is make it hard for them to read my stuff.

But as a semi-pro writer, I treat my Betas like they were editors.  The less work they have to do, the better, IMHO.  I want them to concentrate on my story and not be distracted by accidental dangling participles.

I'm not sure if you intended that as an insult or not, but I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt that you didn't intend to imply that my beta sits on her thumbs and does nothing but wait for me to send her stuff that is half assed and written with the least amount of effort on my part so she can do all the work.

Congratulations on being a semi-pro writer, whatever that means. I write whenever I have a spare moment since I work full time to pay bills.

On second thought, you know what? I am insulted on her behalf and on my own. You somehow implied that you being a 'semi-pro' writer makes you more of an expert than anyone else? No so, sweetie. The ultimate judge of whether you're a good writer is whether or not your reader enjoys the story you told.

I'm also out of here.

[Sialater]

JaerWolfe wrote...

Sialater wrote...
Oh, believe me, I'm having them check for consistencies like that.  I'm just not going to have them check for things I can do myself.  You have the luxury of a lifelong Beta.  As wonderful as my Betas are, they're busy women.  The last thing I want to do is make it hard for them to read my stuff.

But as a semi-pro writer, I treat my Betas like they were editors.  The less work they have to do, the better, IMHO.  I want them to concentrate on my story and not be distracted by accidental dangling participles.

I'm not sure if you intended that as an insult or not, but I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt that you didn't intend to imply that my beta sits on her thumbs and does nothing but wait for me to send her stuff that is half assed and written with the least amount of effort on my part so she can do all the work.

Congratulations on being a semi-pro writer, whatever that means. I write whenever I have a spare moment since I work full time to pay bills.

On second thought, you know what? I am insulted on her behalf and on my own. You somehow implied that you being a 'semi-pro' writer makes you more of an expert than anyone else? No so, sweetie. The ultimate judge of whether you're a good writer is whether or not your reader enjoys the story you told.

I'm also out of here.

Sorry, Jaerwolfe, I had no intention of insulting you or your Beta. 

On the off chance you come back and continue discussing this, I was enjoying discussing  this with you and didn't mean to insult you.

[J.C. Blade]

Finding a good beta can be like looking for a needle in a haystack for real. I agree that they can be essential for story improvement and overall progress but you have to be really lucky to find one interested enough to help, otherwise they'll either loose interest quick or bicker endlessly with you if they don't agree when you want to take some small liberties with canon or just change the events around.



Been there, done that, took the lone road.

[Aeowyn]

As a journalist major at Uni, expressions like "kill your darlings", "red thread" and "new pair of eyes" were fairly common. I nitpick my stories for grammatical flaws and spelling errors. Even now I go back to stories that are online once in a while and read through them and if I find an error I change it.

Even though I know how my stories will be planned out, a second pair of eyes are always helpful when it comes to checking if the red thread is there, if the reader would interpret the text the way I intended etc. When you've been working on something for a while you can become so used to it that you don't see where it might've gone wrong.

[Daewan]

Thick skins: It's not just for fan fiction anymore! Constructive criticism takes many forms. They're all irritating.

[jillyfae]

@Dae *snorts* Do you recommend drell/scale level thick skin, or turian/plate thick skin? ^_~

@Aeowyn: Whenever I'm working on a story, I keep a file for the darlings I have to cut, because it's the only way I can make myself remove the awesome bit of whatever (usually dialogue) that absolutely doesn't function in the story... fool my hindbrain into thinking I'm still using it. I'm saving it for later, donchyaknow?

And every once in a while, something in the cut file actually is useful. So it serves two purposes.

[HolyJellyfish]

This is my profile : http://www.fanfictio.../~mightycrouton

I typically like to use a lot of historical and philosophical references. I read a lot, and so my characters frequently come across as more flawed than most.

As for Beta reading, I tried it and I never wrapped my head around it. I guess I accept the flaws and inconsistencies, and when a reviewer points certain things out, I correct accordingly. Maybe one day I'll do beta, but I haven't found one that would probably enjoy my style since it can be pretty complex and perhaps even over complicating.

I think the best way to write is just constantly using a frame of reference, keeping in mind that characters exist outside of your reality (including your main character). They may have aspects of yourself, but they were still raised in a situation and have experiences vastly different than yours. In the case of ME, I like to reference a lot of military, psychological, and traumatic stories (Shepard has been through quite a lot) and how characters have dealt with that trauma.

But that is my personal taste.

EDITTED : LINK FIXED

Modifié par HolyJellyfish, 21 décembre 2010 - 08:56 .

[HolyJellyfish]

As for Fic that I enjoy and I think deserve a little attention --

Renegade by College Fool
He takes an unconventional idea and spins it beautifully. His characters are spot on, his story takes on twists you wouldn't expect, and his Shepard is so deep, mysterious, and complicated you root for him even when his actions seem so evil. The fic is on current hiatus, but it is short enough now for a quick read.

Iunctio: Wrex by Sinvraal.
Just read the first paragraph. The description will hook you.

Modifié par HolyJellyfish, 21 décembre 2010 - 09:09 .

[Sialater]

jillyfae wrote...

@Dae *snorts* Do you recommend drell/scale level thick skin, or turian/plate thick skin? ^_~
@Aeowyn: Whenever I'm working on a story, I keep a file for the darlings I have to cut, because it's the only way I can make myself remove the awesome bit of whatever (usually dialogue) that absolutely doesn't function in the story... fool my hindbrain into thinking I'm still using it. I'm saving it for later, donchyaknow?
And every once in a while, something in the cut file actually is useful. So it serves two purposes.

Yes!  "Cut" files!  I love cut files!  I have one for just about every thing I'm working on.
 

[Sialater]

HolyJellyfish wrote...

As for Fic that I enjoy and I think deserve a little attention --

Renegade by College Fool
He takes an unconventional idea and spins it beautifully. His characters are spot on, his story takes on twists you wouldn't expect, and his Shepard is so deep, mysterious, and complicated you root for him even when his actions seem so evil. The fic is on current hiatus, but it is short enough now for a quick read.

Iunctio: Wrex by Sinvraal.
Just read the first paragraph. The description will hook you.

You may want to share those here:  Fan Fiction Synopsis Thread.

I believe Sinvraal's already on it.

[aeetos21]

So I've finally worked out the kinks to my Mass Effect universe entry story which will be centered around my main Shepard, Nicholas. One of the biggest problems I've encountered is how different a lot of these Shepards are and mine in particular is pretty different from the black haired, blue eyed, mark vanderloo iconic John Shepard most associate the Commander Shepard with. Still, damn the torpedoes or whatever I'll give it my best.

Basically it begins with Miranda receiving a message from TIM about heading up a new project codenamed Lazarus and to become familiar with Shepard's history and operational record as that will become vital in the months to come. From there I flashback to Mindoir in the first chapter and we get a glimpse of what Shepard's life and expectations were like before the colony was hit by slavers. I'm sort of giving it an Old West frontier sort of vibe with Shepard, the eldest of his siblings, sort of expecting to carry on the farm after his father but at the same time sort of wondering what is out there beyond the stars. Also trying to portray him as natural leader early on with expectations and responsibilities of a young man beginning to come into his own (he's sixteen at this point). Anyway I'm just over 3k words in with this first chapter and by now I think a person has the general feel of where its headed so if anyone would like to read or beta just private message me here on BSN and hopefully I can start getting some feedback before I post it on FFN.

As for my experience with these sort of things I have written several novel length fanfictions in dealing with just these sort of stories (prefer plot twisters) - seven years total come Dec. 31st so if anyone feels like a preliminary read let me know.

Edit: for those worried about ships it won't be Shep/Miranda. I'm just using her examination of Shepard's past as a way into examining the key moments of his past that will again begin on Mindoir and likely lead up to the beginning of ME1.

Modifié par aeetos21, 21 décembre 2010 - 09:39 .

[Sialater]

Your idea sounds very interesting, aeetos. I'm sorry I can't volunteer to help you out with it. I like the idea of Shepard's backstory being told through Miranda's research.

[J4N3_M3]

Aeowyn wrote...

I have this idea of a Mass Effect fic I'm currently working on but what I find difficult is putting it down so it actually sounds good. English isn't my first language, and while I've been writing in English for years, and recently actually published some DA one-shots on ff.net for the first time, I get more nervous when I know that I actually plan to have others read my work. Anyone have any advice on how to find a somewhat good beta?

English isn't my first language either. I think, my best story so far is really Broken Wings because my two betas are doing an amazing job, grammar and spelling wise (yeah, I know I still make a lot of mistakes and typos, dammit xD) and we often bounce ideas back and forth and talk through certain scenes.

I use google docs for example and am usually online when they do their beta so we can talk it through. In return, I beta for one of my beta's story and we do the same. We talk a lot about it all.

Personally, I love this whole talking thing the most. This whole "Hey, I want this scene to be this and that, does that come through?" or "is this character really in character?" "Does this make sense?" and so on. It's my most favorite part of the whole writing process.

@Severyx: I think, it would be helpful if we included some links in the first post that may help writers. I know some here have a good collections of bookmarks on writing tips and so on. Many of these websites have helped me to improve my own writing.

I know, I'm certainly not the only one using synonymlists and all that stuff all the time  

[aeetos21]

I posted the one I talked about earlier, listed on the synopsis thread, and I didn't cover all of Mindoir yet but instead broke it down into two chapters. After Mindoir I'm thinking of continuing the story some sort of Alliance prep school.

Heres the link to the story

[Sialater]

aeetos21 wrote...

I posted the one I talked about earlier, listed on the synopsis thread, and I didn't cover all of Mindoir yet but instead broke it down into two chapters. After Mindoir I'm thinking of continuing the story some sort of Alliance prep school.

Heres the link to the story

It's a very good start.  I like the picture you're painting of Nick's life pre-attack.  You're a little weak on comma usage though and I think your story would flow better if you watched that small detail.

[Severyx]

J4N3_M3 wrote...

@Severyx: I think, it would be helpful if we included some links in the first post that may help writers. I know some here have a good collections of bookmarks on writing tips and so on. Many of these websites have helped me to improve my own writing.

I know, I'm certainly not the only one using synonymlists and all that stuff all the time  

Pft. Good old fashioned thesaurus right here on my desk.

But you're right. I'll add a 'Helpful Writing Tips and Guides' section in the OP soon, but I can't be the only one to verify whether a link is helpful or not. I've been having a hard time getting to the forums today, hence why I haven't been able to keep up with the thread. (Yay car issues.) I'll scan through for links real quick.

EDIT: Added the section. It's a little bare right now (my mind is drawing a complete blank for good sites), but I'm confident it'll fill up soon enough.

Modifié par Severyx, 22 décembre 2010 - 05:46 .

[Sialater]

I have always found anything at the SFFWA helpful

http://www.sfwa.org/...aft-of-writing/


I believe mention was made of this article specifically:  http://www.sfwa.org/...-your-darlings/

Modifié par Sialater, 22 décembre 2010 - 06:06 .

[J4N3_M3]

I'm gonna recommend battlechantress' blog entries here...

Fanfic Writer Resources and Fanfic Writer Resources - The Sequel which contain many useful links.

[pacer90]

I'm going to promote my fan fic 1 last time in this thread in hopes that someone takes up the mantle as a beta editor.

I will gladly edit your work or your friends or your dog's friends in return.

Edit: Obviously it's the one in my sig.

Modifié par pacer90, 22 décembre 2010 - 07:08 .

[Sialater]

pacer90 wrote...

I'm going to promote my fan fic 1 last time in this thread in hopes that someone takes up the mantle as a beta editor.

I will gladly edit your work or your friends or your dog's friends in return.

Edit: Obviously it's the one in my sig.

OK, I don't usually like MaleShep stories, but this is funny as hell.

[TheMarshal]

Just put up a one-shot story (which turned out WAY shorter than I thought it would).  Wanted to try an easy story that, while still technically canon to what I'm looking to do, doesn't necessarily have to work in to something larger.  It was an interesting experience.  Any comments welcome!

(Link)

[Severyx]

I have a question. How do you people gather inspiration for your stories? Do you simply think them up or does it come to you while doing something?



Me? Most of my plot development actually comes from music, as strange as that sounds.

[Sialater]

Minor things around, basically. But my biggest hits of inspiration come when I'm pissed off, I've begun to notice. Like when I'm terribly disappointed in another's author's work, I usually get inspired to "do it better," so to speak.

The jury's still out on whether I actually succeed.

Modifié par Sialater, 23 décembre 2010 - 02:29 .