285 réponses à ce sujet

[Sialater]

TheMarshal wrote...

Sialater wrote...

Well, frankly, most professional writers don't understand the concept of writing as hobby.  They've either done it for so long, they've forgotten the struggle in the unknown trenches, or they've developed such a disdain for their own craft that the idea that someone would write without the ultimate goal of being published is just anathema to them.

That I can understand.  I've been a professional engineer for so long that the idea of going home after work and doing my own little 'side projects' just for fun makes me cringe, and it never ceases to amaze me that there are people out there who actually do just that.

LOL, unlike with engineering, though, projects don't beget projects like it does with writing.  The more I write, the more ideas I have, means the more I write.  Since I started fanficcing a little over a year ago, I've nearly completed my first novel  (I've started and abandoned several).  And this ended a four year dry spell.

[TheMarshal]

Sialater wrote...

LOL, unlike with engineering, though, projects don't beget projects like it does with writing.  The more I write, the more ideas I have, means the more I write.  Since I started fanficcing a little over a year ago, I've nearly completed my first novel  (I've started and abandoned several).  And this ended a four year dry spell.

True enough, I suppose.  Engineering mostly springs forth out of necessity (I need to do this, but I can't.  I wonder how I...).

I only started writing (not just fanficcing) about 5 months ago and only just finished my first multi-chapter story.  I was definitely hit with a deluge of ideas while I was writing, but now that I'm done with that story I'm finding it difficult to get back into writing mode, despite the constant churn of story snippets which pass through my head throughout the day.

[Sialater]

TheMarshal wrote...

Sialater wrote...

LOL, unlike with engineering, though, projects don't beget projects like it does with writing.  The more I write, the more ideas I have, means the more I write.  Since I started fanficcing a little over a year ago, I've nearly completed my first novel  (I've started and abandoned several).  And this ended a four year dry spell.

True enough, I suppose.  Engineering mostly springs forth out of necessity (I need to do this, but I can't.  I wonder how I...).

I only started writing (not just fanficcing) about 5 months ago and only just finished my first multi-chapter story.  I was definitely hit with a deluge of ideas while I was writing, but now that I'm done with that story I'm finding it difficult to get back into writing mode, despite the constant churn of story snippets which pass through my head throughout the day.

I have, at last count, 4 original novels in various stages of planning/completion, three novel-length fics and a giant AU collaboration with two other writers.  The more you write, the more you write.

[Terror_K]

ElectricZ wrote...

What? How'd that banner get in my sig? I hate those things, too! Only attention ****s and shameless self-promoters stoop to such tactics.

What would be even worse is some schmoe coming up with cover art for his fanfics. I mean, really, that's just tacky!

For shaaaame!

Modifié par Terror_K, 27 mai 2011 - 12:15 .

[LuxDragon]

But if a fan does it for you, then it's okay right?

Modifié par LuxDragon, 27 mai 2011 - 12:44 .

[fainmaca]

ElectricZ wrote...

@Fainmaca - thanks for the props. Because I liked the characters in ME, I want to do right by them. But I think that probably anyone who writes fanfic gets into it for just that reason.

How's your vote-on-the-plot live interactive fiction experiment going? I'm still astounded that you can produce as much as you can in shuch a short time. You mentioned having to take a break for a day or two after finishing a chapter -- it always seems like after I post something I want to take a breather myself, and can't really start writing again until I "feel" like it. But it always seems to come back.
[

Meant every word, dude. You be awesome at writing.

I'm enjoying the challenge of writing a multi-faceted story like this. The main problem I have is not being biased in my writing of the choices I put before my readers. For example, there is a choice coming up where Shep will decide if a certain character lives or dies. Either choice will have huge long-reaching consequences for the story, but I find myself preferring the choice that spares the character, so I'm having to try not to make sparing this character too essential to the story, if you get what I mean.

I want to make this plot feel as much like the games as possible, so the choices are hugely important to the experience.

As for your question about having someone else write their take on it: I'd be flattered if someone did that with my stories, but also a little wary. It's a huge compliment if someone likes your characters/plotlines enough that they want to write about them, but at the same time you can't be sure what direction they'll be taken in.

Sialater wrote...
The more I write, the more ideas I have, means the more I write. Since I started fanficcing a little over a year ago, I've nearly completed my first novel (I've started and abandoned several). And this ended a four year dry spell.

I know the feeling! Ideas just keep popping into my head for new stories. I've got one planned that I'm gonna hold in reserve in case I go through a dry spell. Its a more comedic approach than the dramatic ME3 plot In Into the Unknown. If only I could find a way to make a living at this writing lark I could get rid of that pesky full-time job and get to writing down all the ideas burning through my brain...

I've been writing for my own amusement for quite some time now. Started off when I was 13/14, writing a Star Wars fanfic. It took 8 months, but I finished the first of three planned novel-length installments, just doing it to see if I could. When I started off, I honestly thought I could send it off in an envelope to George Lucas' desk and see it published! Still got it around here somewhere....

[Severyx]

TheMarshal wrote...

I only started writing (not just fanficcing) about 5 months ago and only just finished my first multi-chapter story.  I was definitely hit with a deluge of ideas while I was writing, but now that I'm done with that story I'm finding it difficult to get back into writing mode, despite the constant churn of story snippets which pass through my head throughout the day.

I wonder if I'll have that issue when I'm finished with ME:GD. I have so many ideas swimming around in my head (even the potential for a sequel - egads!) that it doesn't seem possible, but you never know... I found it's good to type up the various related ideas you have into a document and save it for later when you can chronologically and logically link all of it together in the form of a plotline. That's how my fic got started.

All this talk about writing fanfiction and the writing for fun versus writing for a career suddenly make me wonder if what I'm writing is actually fanfiction or not. I had always assumed it was because it was being written by a fan, but would you really consider Karpyshyn's Darth Bane trilogy fanfiction? It follows the same set of rules as my story, meaning he's written an original plot with original characters using a (mostly) established setting for an IP he doesn't own. I guess technically his work with KOTOR might excuse him in that regard, but from what I hear, his work there was only the qualifier for him to be allowed to write a series of official Star Wars novels.

Terror K could sympathize with me. His work follows a similar novel-ish fundamental as mine.

AnimaTempli101 wrote...

I seem to remember David Gaider saying that in his opinion Fan-Fic is like "watching somebody touch your wife and not in a 'Tickle-Me Elmo' way."

And this is just one of the many reasons why I write original stuff.

Modifié par Severyx, 27 mai 2011 - 11:51 .

[TheMarshal]

Severyx wrote...

I wonder if I'll have that issue when I'm finished with ME:GD. I have so many ideas swimming around in my head (even the potential for a sequel - egads!) that it doesn't seem possible, but you never know... I found it's good to type up the various related ideas you have into a document and save it for later when you can chronologically and logically link all of it together in the form of a plotline. That's how my fic got started.

All this talk about writing fanfiction and the writing for fun versus writing for a career suddenly make me wonder if what I'm writing is actually fanfiction or not. I had always assumed it was because it was being written by a fan, but would you really consider Karpyshyn's Darth Bane trilogy fanfiction? It follows the same set of rules as my story, meaning he's written an original plot with original characters using a (mostly) established setting for an IP he doesn't own. I guess technically his work with KOTOR might excuse him in that regard, but from what I hear, his work there was only the qualifier for him to be allowed to write a series of official Star Wars novels.

Terror K could sympathize with me. His work follows a similar novel-ish fundamental as mine.

I've got a few plot points for my next story written out in this little book I carry with me everywhere I go.  It helped me stay focused on my last project.  Whenever I'd get inundated with ideas for something other than what I was working on, I'd write them down so that they'd be out of my head and could then get back to work.  I also have 3-4 short stories that I've started but haven't looked at since I first touched them.  So I've got a lot of false starts and ideas, I just haven't really taken the steps to get anything in order.

I think I agree with you about the subtle differences between fanfiction vs. fiction-using-an-established-universe.  A lot of my initial ideas for stories when I started out involved following the events of the Mass Effect universe, but I found that it was the in-between stuff, the things which weren't part of the main plot which were far more interesting.  I still like using some established characters, but given how much of a blank slate Shepard can be, I still feel like she is technically my character (which is why I use her first name in my stories, much to the chagrin of some readers).  Maybe that doesn't make me a 'real' author, but so what?  I'm writing something that I enjoy, and at least a few people are enjoying the stuff I'm coming up with.

[fainmaca]

Hey, if anyone's interested chapter 28 of my fic is up. I'm having fun writing the mission from different perspectives, and think ME 3 should feature a few moments like that. It was done in both KOTORs and it was a fun change of pace with Joker's segment. Please, let me know what y'all think about it.

[Labrev]

I've just started working on a piece of my own. Seeing all these writings has inspired me to do one myself, and I came up with a couple of ideas that I think might be pretty good. I'll post a link up to the other thread when I'm ready, nothing's published yet, but writing is underway.

[ElectricZ]

Sialater wrote...

That being said, I find that if I ever "make it,"  I'll have no problem with fic on my worlds/creations.  I'll even deal with slash for characters that wouldn't remotely look at one another as a sexual being EVER.    It would be rather hypocritical of me to do otherwise.

Life is funny, innit? i just read up on the Garrus thread how someone caught the creator of a very popular ME web comic was blatantly "inspired by" (read: cribbing from) your fic, Loved. Obviously, you were taken aback a bit.

Care to comment? ::turns camera and spotlight on Sia::

But seriously, and out of genuine curiosity, what was your first, gut reaction to seeing your words and situations show up in someone elses' work? Not gonna lie, I felt angry for you. I think you would have been justified in demanding public satisfaction, and though the artist has since posted a disclaimer about "borrowing ideas" from fics, it still strikes me as very low class to do it without at least asking permission.

The first thing that popped into my head was how the artist would like it if someone took all the frames of his/her piece, blotted out the words, rearranged them into a new order and wrote completely new dialogue... and then took credit for the whole thing, art and all.

But then I thought, that's what we fanfic writers do every time we post a story. We take what was created, chop it up, rearrange it, and then post it on our own. I don't recall ever asking the good folks at Bioware for permission...

Getting angry, to 'borrow' from Sia, is hypocritical. But then again, there's got to be a certain level of politeness in how its done. Gonna have to think about this some more as I continue my latest "borrowing" of Bioware's intellectual property...

Modifié par ElectricZ, 31 mai 2011 - 10:38 .

[PMC65]

LuxDragon wrote...



But if a fan does it for you, then it's okay right?

That is sweet!

[Severyx]

An interesting point, ElectricZ. Those are some more of the many reasons why I write original stuff, while only 'borrowing' the setting. The characters are BioWare's manifestations of countless hours of hard work, from the moment they achieved a name to the finalization of the textures and meshes. Likewise, Shepard was designed to be the player's creation. Both are personal to their respective creators, and I have no desire to bend someone else's personal creation to my will. It just doesn't seem right to me.

I have a few short appearances of established characters in my story and I struggled with those, because no matter how close I am able to mimic the behaviors and personalities of the characters, the original was still created by someone else with their own vision of who the character should be. If the creator of those particular characters read my story and said "That was spot on, I'd have had <character> do that too." it'd make me feel better, but, well, let's face it. That's not going to happen.

The exception in my case is, of course, the setting. I'd love to ask the creators of the all encompassing Mass Effect universe how they view their setting being used (as opposed to characters) in all the different ways that it has been, from fanfiction to original fan novels, even a fan made game. (BioWare, feel free to comment! ) I get the gut feeling that it's a different relationship between creator and creation in this case, since creating a setting is essentially building something for the sole purpose of being used by others. This is what I'd like to think, of course.

[Terror_K]

ElectricZ wrote...

But seriously, and out of genuine curiosity, what was your first, gut reaction to seeing your words and situations show up in someone elses' work? Not gonna lie, I felt angry for you. I think you would have been justified in demanding public satisfaction, and though the artist has since posted a disclaimer about "borrowing ideas" from fics, it still strikes me as very low class to do it without at least asking permission.

The first thing that popped into my head was how the artist would like it if someone took all the frames of his/her piece, blotted out the words, rearranged them into a new order and wrote completely new dialogue... and then took credit for the whole thing, art and all.

But then I thought, that's what we fanfic writers do every time we post a story. We take what was created, chop it up, rearrange it, and then post it on our own. I don't recall ever asking the good folks at Bioware for permission...

Getting angry, to 'borrow' from Sia, is hypocritical. But then again, there's got to be a certain level of politeness in how its done. Gonna have to think about this some more as I continue my latest "borrowing" of Bioware's intellectual property...

While that may be true to a degree with the more general fanfics that focus around established characters from the series, but I don't think it's quite the case with writers such as Severyx and myself who write new stories with new characters that merely paddle in the Mass Effect universe rather than dive into it and mess around with and twist with what's already there. Sure... there's still a certain degree of it, because we're still essentially playing in BioWare's sandbox rather than our own, and perhaps taking a few liberties here and there or merely filling in some gaps with unofficial fan-canon that could contradict something if we're either not careful or something else comes along later that overules it, but that's little different than many of the official Star Wars books out there set during periods unexplored by the films and following new characters (especially since many of them have been retconned since, particularly any pre-prequel ones).

I guess what I'm trying to say is, not all fanfics meddle directly with BioWare's work and try to claim it as their own.

[fainmaca]

After having to put a third break into a chapter I'd expected to be done with none, I'm coming to realise I am terrible at estimating how long my missions are going to be. Any other authors out there find some of their chapters/arcs/missions running a lot longer than anticipated?

To clarify: I'd expected my Shepard's mission to Bekenstein to take 15K words, tops. It is now at just over 40K words, and I'm expecting to hit fifty five, maybe sixty in the end. There's still quite a bit I need to tell.

EDIT: And this is just one mission, out of a planned forty! I'm not sure what's going to be left of me, come this time next year. I just hope I don't develop a second case of literary diarrhea and end up with a string of missions taking 60K words each. I'll have no fingers left to type with, only worn down stubs!

Modifié par fainmaca, 05 juin 2011 - 01:05 .

[TheMarshal]

Oh I've definitely underestimated how long a story was going to be. When I started A Good Night, the first chapter was only ~4k words, and I was maybe 1-2k words into the second chapter, and I was convinced I was 75% or more of the way through the story.

Final word count (after 6 chapters) was 33k. The first chapter alone was almost 9k words with revisions/updates. So yeah, I share your inability to properly estimate the length of my stories, and raise a glass to the verbose amongst us!

[Severyx]

Since ME:GD is my first writing project, I've never really had any expectations of where my chapters and overall story would end up, wordcount-wise. After I got a few chapters out and started getting a feel for how I played things out, I set myself a minimum wordcount per chapter for consistency, but I've been known to deviate from that depending on the needs of the chapter. My longest chapter so far is chapter three at over 12K words. That's my standing record. Chapter 25 came in close to beating it, but not quite.

That said, I had -no idea- my story would traverse as many chapters/words as it has so far, and I'm not even done yet! I'm always mindful of 'pruning' and such, but every time I go to tidy things up, I end up finding that cutting anything detracts more from the scene than I was willing to let go. So that either makes me a bad self-editor, or a spot-on one. I'll leave that for the readers to decide.

[fainmaca]

Hey there fanfiction writers and readers!

I've got a question for you authors out there. How important do you find positive feedback? I've just been thinking back on the past couple of times I have been faced with writer's block, and I've found that I usually overcome it after receiving a particularly encouraging review or PM.

Anyone else get that, where a positive word or two inspires you to get writing again?

[Sialater]

I used to. I don't any more. But that's just because my muse and my ego (and a certain version of Shepard) seem to be riding me. You're not the only author, though, I've heard of with that problem.

[TheMarshal]

Personally, I welcome constructive criticism, since oftentimes I don't actually learn anything from a glowing review. It's always nice to know that someone enjoyed something I've written, or when they affirm my own belief that I'm doing a certain thing well, but sometimes I can't see the things I should be doing differently. Of course, maybe that's just when I'm having something beta-read, since I've sent off a few chapters to be beta'd that I've felt lukewarm about and gotten back little more than "great job!" I'm not sure how I would take a negative review from a reader.

[Severyx]

Positive feedback is great. There's nothing an artist likes to hear more than that people are really enjoying their work. I certainly have had moments where I'd be stuck on how to start a chapter, read a long positive review and then find my brain quickly churning on how to get that story moving again. I think, for me, it's tied with a stop and go cycle I seem to have fallen into that doesn't directly relate to feedback, but I won't say that positive feedback hasn't had a hand in helping me get back into muse-mode.

As far as how important it is-- Positive and negative feedback rank equal to me. By negative feedback, I mean something with more intelligent thought than "this story sux im outta here". Both have a very important part to play in the creative process. I'd certainly want negative feedback over no feedback, at least.

[fainmaca]

I guess a large part of it is the psychology of the thing. If you haven't heard anything about your latest offering for a few days, good or bad, it can weaken one's confidence.

[TheMarshal]

fainmaca wrote...

I guess a large part of it is the psychology of the thing. If you haven't heard anything about your latest offering for a few days, good or bad, it can weaken one's confidence.

That I totally agree with.  Good or bad, it's nice to know that at least someone out there is reading your stuff.  That's why I've taken to posting any new stories/updates that I make on the LJ mass effect community and in any relevant threads on these forums.

[skcih-deraj]

fainmaca wrote...

Hey there fanfiction writers and readers!

I've got a question for you authors out there. How important do you find positive feedback? I've just been thinking back on the past couple of times I have been faced with writer's block, and I've found that I usually overcome it after receiving a particularly encouraging review or PM.

Anyone else get that, where a positive word or two inspires you to get writing again?

Positive feedback is good, but when you don't get a shinny review and they let you know how something could get better is the kind of feedback I like best. But when reviews or any feedback for that matter has been far and in between. You look at your stats and get that bit of satisfaction that people are at least reading it.

[Terror_K]

fainmaca wrote...

Hey there fanfiction writers and readers!

I've got a question for you authors out there. How important do you find positive feedback? I've just been thinking back on the past couple of times I have been faced with writer's block, and I've found that I usually overcome it after receiving a particularly encouraging review or PM.

Anyone else get that, where a positive word or two inspires you to get writing again?

I find any feedback that's constructive and goes into specifics is good, whether it's positive or negative. Thankfully I haven't had much negative feedback at all yet, and any that has has been on just a few minor points and overall been constructive and helped me. Positive feedback is good too of course, and while I do think constructive criticism can overall be more important, specific positive feedback can also help you understand whether what you've intended to do with something works and reinforces the fact that what you're doing has succeeded or not in the manner you intended. I've been very happy for some of the character-specific feedback for instance, and was really pleased after I wrote a chapter I wanted to be particularly emotional and a reader actually went as far to say it was the saddest thing she'd ever read. Stuff like that at least lets you know that the story and characters you've written are working or not, and thus whether to keep it up or tweak things a bit.

Overall feedback is important to just overall encourage you to write more as a whole. If you don't get feedback as often suddenly and it dries up or simply doesn't really come at all in the first place, you can start to wonder whether it's even worth writing or whether you're still engaging your readers. And while concrit and specific feedback is overall better and more helpful, just a small, vague review can even do wonders during a feedback dry spell, IMO.