1079 réponses à ce sujet

[Gabey5]

sweet

[Maria Caliban]

Addai67 wrote...

Onyx Jaguar wrote...

It's a "gotcha!" moment, pure and simple.  Completely ****s over the Carver character because you can bet that most players will play as a Warrior.

Good god, why.  I'll never understand that.

Giant, two-handed sword.

Having a orge pick you up and smash you in the face half-a-dozen times and being able to shrug it off.

Metal armor.

Being able to benchpress your companions.

First into the fray.

Being able to protect your companions by serving as a physical barrier with large sword.

Modifié par Maria Caliban, 21 décembre 2010 - 03:43 .

[Onyx Jaguar]

Why do we need party balance? Hell I can build my party anyway I want in ME or Baldur's Gate. If I want to go on full mage assault in either game I can, if I want to go full on warrior assault in iether game I can.



Dragon Age so far in both of the games released does not allow you to do this with the exception of the Warrior class.

[MerinTB]

Bryy_Miller wrote...

MerinTB wrote...

This thread is so much catharsis for me.

I have absolutely no idea why it's such a big deal that something you do affects the game. The posts in this thread boggle my mind.

I've said it a couple times now - I think its a "bad" design decision, but storywise I'm looking forward to seeing the why behind this and anticipate liking it.

It is just nice to finally be back on the other side of the fence, and watching others gnash their teeth for once.

Puts things in perspective.  Grants me some calm. 

[SirOccam]

I doubt I'm going to shock anyone by saying this, but...I think I'm okay with how the Bethany/Carver thing works. Yes, if given the choice, I'd love to be able to keep both of them safe, but that's just it...I am not being given that choice, and, more importantly, was never given that choice.

They're not taking anything away from us. I'd like to keep both siblings, but then I'd have liked to be able to spare Loghain and keep Alistair in the group too, and that wasn't in the cards either. It's easy to imagine things you'd like to do, but BioWare can't possibly keep up with all of our imaginations, nor should they need to try. They're the ones telling this story. If it calls for one sibling, then it calls for one sibling.

As David says, I think it's pretty cool that we get some variation at all. They could just as easily have written only one character to fill that slot in every playthrough.

[Onyx Jaguar]

But it is a choice, it is a meta choice, that will show up only as a cool easter egg for those who do not know about it.

[tmp7704]

ziggehunderslash wrote...

Except you don't really know anything about, and thus haven't, as a player really developed attachments to either at that point.

If lack of attachment is supposed to be a problem, then this problem still exists even in the current setup where the player doesn't get to choose. A sibling you know nothing about kicks the bucket, what a traumatic experien- hey, dibs on that ogre's loot!

Both his and the lack of info both could be probably addressed/provided in sort of introductory "just who the hell is Hawke and what was he/she doing before the Blight hit" cinematic/tapestry/montage/yarn spun by Varric?

[nijnij]

SirOccam wrote...

I doubt I'm going to shock anyone by saying this, but...I think I'm okay with how the Bethany/Carver thing works. Yes, if given the choice, I'd love to be able to keep both of them safe, but that's just it...I am not being given that choice, and, more importantly, was never given that choice.

They're not taking anything away from us. I'd like to keep both siblings, but then I'd have liked to be able to spare Loghain and keep Alistair in the group too, and that wasn't in the cards either. It's easy to imagine things you'd like to do, but BioWare can't possibly keep up with all of our imaginations, nor should they need to try. They're the ones telling this story. If it calls for one sibling, then it calls for one sibling.

As David says, I think it's pretty cool that we get some variation at all. They could just as easily have written only one character to fill that slot in every playthrough.

Agree 100%. And I bet there'll be a mod anyway.

[Ziggeh]

Onyx Jaguar wrote...

Why do we need party balance?

Well, strictly speaking I suppose you don't. It has a number of benefits, diversity of party within each playthrough, predictable maximums aiding difficulty balancing, never being left without a class specific function (like healing) unless it's through choice...well, 'cept lockpicking I suppose.

It changes your class choice from one that affects your party makeup choices to one that merely reflects your intended playstyle, and I consider that cunning on their part.

[Bryy_Miller]

MerinTB wrote...

Bryy_Miller wrote...

MerinTB wrote...

This thread is so much catharsis for me.

I have absolutely no idea why it's such a big deal that something you do affects the game. The posts in this thread boggle my mind.

I've said it a couple times now - I think its a "bad" design decision, but storywise I'm looking forward to seeing the why behind this and anticipate liking it.

I get the feeling that this wouldn't be an "issue" if you were somehow asked within the game to save one or the other. Which, to me, is a horrible device because there are so many ways to do it poorly. I absolutely loved the Ashley/Kaiden choice in ME1, but I hated the execution. I don't want to be the narrator of my own story. That being said, I'm a bit annoyed that I allowed myself to read that spoiler. 

[Ziggeh]

tmp7704 wrote...

If lack of attachment is supposed to be a problem, then this problem still exists even in the current setup where the player doesn't get to choose. A sibling you know nothing about kicks the bucket, what a traumatic experien- hey, dibs on that ogre's loot!

They're still a sibling and you can certainly empathise. You just have little to distinguish between them.

[Addai]

Bryy_Miller wrote...

MerinTB wrote...

This thread is so much catharsis for me.

I have absolutely no idea why it's such a big deal that something you do affects the game. The posts in this thread boggle my mind.

Can only speak for myself, but Bethany is the only NPC I have any interest in at this point.  Sure it's superficial, but they put these character portraits out there to hook people.  Not happy that I have to play a rogue to get interaction with her.  Gomer better be worth it.    And too bad we can't dump Aveline as one of our choices.

[Onyx Jaguar]

ziggehunderslash wrote...

Onyx Jaguar wrote...

Why do we need party balance?

Well, strictly speaking I suppose you don't. It has a number of benefits, diversity of party within each playthrough, predictable maximums aiding difficulty balancing, never being left without a class specific function (like healing) unless it's through choice...well, 'cept lockpicking I suppose.

It changes your class choice from one that affects your party makeup choices to one that merely reflects your intended playstyle, and I consider that cunning on their part.

Again, I don't even need to lay a trap to make an opening for my point.

If I want to fully load a mage party I cannot.  In fact I am hampered more so because of this.

The same for other party combinations

Unless they over-simplify what a Mage can do, which wouuld be seriously unsurprising, then I could not test build a set of mages for circumstance.  Same with the other classes.

How is removing what I want to do on a playthrough just because of what class I play as "diversify" my party?

It locks me out based on what class the PC is!

[Onyx Jaguar]

filaminstrel wrote...

nijnij wrote...

SirOccam wrote...

I doubt I'm going to shock anyone by saying this, but...I think I'm okay with how the Bethany/Carver thing works. Yes, if given the choice, I'd love to be able to keep both of them safe, but that's just it...I am not being given that choice, and, more importantly, was never given that choice.

They're not taking anything away from us. I'd like to keep both siblings, but then I'd have liked to be able to spare Loghain and keep Alistair in the group too, and that wasn't in the cards either. It's easy to imagine things you'd like to do, but BioWare can't possibly keep up with all of our imaginations, nor should they need to try. They're the ones telling this story. If it calls for one sibling, then it calls for one sibling.

As David says, I think it's pretty cool that we get some variation at all. They could just as easily have written only one character to fill that slot in every playthrough.

Agree 100%. And I bet there'll be a mod anyway.

I have a feeling there will be too much "oh our poor dead sister, why wasn't it you instead" dialog to simply mod away their death easily.

You could probably mod out the importance of the PC being a Mage sinc ethere are two alternate paths. 

[Bryy_Miller]

Guys. I think Onyx Jaguar's mind broke.

[MerinTB]

Onyx Jaguar wrote...
You could probably mod out the importance of the PC being a Mage sinc ethere are two alternate paths. 

They modded male romance Alistair and female romance Morrigan fairly quickly - I doubt that this kind of "check what class the MC is, return which sibling becomes a follower" code will be much harder to hack.

[Bryy_Miller]

I forsee YouTube videos of Carver acting like Bethany and vice versa.

[tmp7704]

ziggehunderslash wrote...

They're still a sibling and you can certainly empathise. You just have little to distinguish between them.

Depends on what your own experience with siblings was, if any. If i'm not allowed to choose between them because i know nothing about them, then maybe i shouldn't be too hasty with feeling sorry, either. After all how do i know Bethany hasn't been making Hawke's life living hell since the day both were born, and so there's no love lost there, for example...

[Ziggeh]

Onyx Jaguar wrote...

How is removing what I want to do on a playthrough just because of what class I play as "diversify" my party?

Lets say you want to start with a warrior heavy setup, you go with warrior hawke and get to pick carver to increase the derp. You pick up aveline and fenris and away you go. After happily exploring said setup, you decide you should give a mage heavy party a try, you find yourself in something of a pickle.

While not letting you really stack a party with a given class (cept warriors, which seems a bit odd, but still), the more balanced party lets you to at least wieght a party in every direction within that playthrough.

Modifié par ziggehunderslash, 21 décembre 2010 - 04:10 .

[David Gaider]

Onyx Jaguar wrote...
Again, I don't even need to lay a trap to make an opening for my point.

If I want to fully load a mage party I cannot.  In fact I am hampered more so because of this.

The same for other party combinations

Unless they over-simplify what a Mage can do, which wouuld be seriously unsurprising, then I could not test build a set of mages for circumstance.  Same with the other classes.

How is removing what I want to do on a playthrough just because of what class I play as "diversify" my party?

It locks me out based on what class the PC is!

That's assuming:

a) That Carver or Bethany are permanent party members.

That you won't get the mages you need elsewhere.

c) That we ever intended for this to be anything other than a story mechanic.

Maybe it's just me, but that's a lot of assumptions-- all based on your desire to metagame your party composition rather than play the game we're presenting.

[Maria Caliban]

MerinTB wrote...

Onyx Jaguar wrote...
You could probably mod out the importance of the PC being a Mage sinc ethere are two alternate paths. 

They modded male romance Alistair and female romance Morrigan fairly quickly - I doubt that this kind of "check what class the MC is, return which sibling becomes a follower" code will be much harder to hack.

Indeed, though David indicated there were story based reasons for it, so I'm inclined to believe that one of the Hawkes being a mage is important.

Edit: *notices above post* Yep.

Modifié par Maria Caliban, 21 décembre 2010 - 04:11 .

[Saibh]

I think it's too much to say players don't or never had the choice--as Onyx said, it's a metachoice. Like how sacrificing Alistair can be prevented by simply not taking him with you.

In any case, I'm a bit sad about lost storytelling potential (having a mage sister while being a mage, for the most part), but I can deal with this easily. I don't feel anything is being taken away from me, is the important thing.

So, I'm curious--will Carver be there instead of Bethany in the opening prologue? The exaggerated part, I mean.

Modifié par Saibh, 21 décembre 2010 - 04:12 .

[Ziggeh]

tmp7704 wrote...

Depends on what your own experience with siblings was, if any.

Not really, I think it's common enough in fiction to at least give people the sense of the relationship, even if they've had no experience personally. I've never owned a dog, but Ol' Yeller still made me cry as a kid.

tmp7704 wrote...
If i'm not allowed to choose between them because i know nothing about them, then maybe i shouldn't be too hasty with feeling sorry, either.

I have no idea what that means.

tmp7704 wrote...
After all how do i know Bethany hasn't been making Hawke's life living hell since the day both were born, and so there's no love lost there, for example...

Heh, fair enough, I concede, you may not understand sibling relationships at all.

[David Gaider]

Saibh wrote...
So, I'm curious--will Carver be there instead of Bethany in the opening prologue? The exaggerated part, I mean.

Yes-- if you play a mage then Carver is present in the exaggerated opening instead of Bethany.