226 réponses à ce sujet

[Sylvius the Mad]

I don't listen to myself speak (people sometimes complain that I mumble, but I never notice), so the silent protagonist was good for me.

[Altima Darkspells]

Morroian wrote...


Actually no it means that VO costs more to produce.

In theory, yes.  You go from a budget of, say, zero to whatever it costs to hire the voice actor, animators, studio time, etc.

However, remember, that because voiced protagonists take so much effort, BioWare can get away with skimping on everything else.  Case in point, there are only thirty-thousand dialogue lines in DA2, as opposed to the seventy thousand (with eight hundred thousand words) lines in DAO.

So one can somewhat expect DA2 to be cheaper in the voice acting department than, say, DAO.  Now, of course, this isn't exactly a problem, as long as it's obvious the funds they save this way goes into other parts of the game.

The reason why a game such as TOR has such a massive, massive VA budget is that BioWare's essentially doing the same dialogue they always do, but they're doing it with sixteen different main characters--meaning sixteen different VAs, with all the studio time and costs that entails.

[Atakuma]

Where did they say how much dialogue was in DA2?

[ToJKa1]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

If the PC isn't voiced, those options can serve as abstractions of what the character actually says, not unlike the keyword dialogue you see in the Elder Scrolls games.

Only when the PC is voiced does the utterance of those exact words become explicit within the game world.

Exactly why i prefer the silent protagonist too. Oblivion's topic system was nice, but Morrowind's keyword system was even better, however i bet Skyrim will have Fallout 3 style dialogue lines.
As for DA2, forced race, name (or half of it really ) and voice really takes a lot freedom from the chracter deveploment away, but it's the storyline and choices that can be made during it that count, and i still believe BW can do that right.

[Graunt]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

I don't listen to myself speak (people sometimes complain that I mumble, but I never notice), so the silent protagonist was good for me.

Hah, I get that quite a bit too actually and seem to think I'm speaking loud enough since I know what I'm trying to say.  Thing is, this is supposed to be a game, not real life.  The same rules don't apply even if you're trying your hardest to "imagine" that they do.  

I had absolutely no problem in the past RPGs where no one spoke and it was all text driven, but then when a game comes along where everything is spoken, even by your main character it gets really distracting when another game comes along where everyone but you speaks.  I would have preferred no one in Origins spoke if this was the route they were going to go.

Morroian wrote...

However,
remember, that because voiced protagonists take so much effort, BioWare
can get away with skimping on everything else.  Case in point, there
are only thirty-thousand dialogue lines in DA2, as opposed to the
seventy thousand (with eight hundred thousand words) lines in DAO.

Keep in mind how much of the dialogue, whether it was spoken or just a choice from the main character typically ended up on the same path as another choice though.  A lot of that was redundancy trying to mask the fact that the supposed "choice" was just an illusion.  This will be a problem in DA2 if the same man behind the curtain scenarios keep happening, but if there are less or almost none it won't really be an issue that there's less spoken dialogue.  You'll end up having just as many "real" choices that you had in the first game without a lot of the smoke and mirrors.  That, in my opinion is when streamlining is done right.  I don't like being treated as though I'm too stupid to realize that 2-3 of the 5 choices lead to the same conclusion.

Modifié par Graunt, 23 décembre 2010 - 04:19 .

[Addai]

Altima Darkspells wrote...
However, remember, that because voiced protagonists take so much effort, BioWare can get away with skimping on everything else.  Case in point, there are only thirty-thousand dialogue lines in DA2, as opposed to the seventy thousand (with eight hundred thousand words) lines in DAO.

It worries me that, given this and with the devs here emphasizing the "action" part of action RPG, that romances will be more like Mass Effect than DAO, where it's a couple stilted conversations and a roll in the hay.  The romance story lines were the most compelling to me in Origins and not at all what I expected from a video game.  It would be all the more odd given the ten year time span.

They can skimp on other things, but if BW ordered 50% less sparkledust for Gaider's keyboard, it's going to be a big disappointment. 

[ejoslin]

Altima Darkspells wrote...

Morroian wrote...


Actually no it means that VO costs more to produce.

In theory, yes.  You go from a budget of, say, zero to whatever it costs to hire the voice actor, animators, studio time, etc.

However, remember, that because voiced protagonists take so much effort, BioWare can get away with skimping on everything else.  Case in point, there are only thirty-thousand dialogue lines in DA2, as opposed to the seventy thousand (with eight hundred thousand words) lines in DAO.

So one can somewhat expect DA2 to be cheaper in the voice acting department than, say, DAO.  Now, of course, this isn't exactly a problem, as long as it's obvious the funds they save this way goes into other parts of the game.

The reason why a game such as TOR has such a massive, massive VA budget is that BioWare's essentially doing the same dialogue they always do, but they're doing it with sixteen different main characters--meaning sixteen different VAs, with all the studio time and costs that entails.

Wait, WAIT!  There are less than half the dialog lines in DA2 than there are in DAO?  Where did you find these numbers?  And are these voiced lines or all lines?  That is a HUGE reduction, if it is true, either way.

This, IMO, would be awful if it's true.  the friendship and romance building were such a major part of DAO -- taking that away or reducing it would be...  ugh.  I thought the game was going to be shorter due to a lot less fluff and filler stuff, not less in the relationship (friendships and lovers).  Or is it going to be less story building?

Oh, I hope you are wrong.

Modifié par ejoslin, 23 décembre 2010 - 04:39 .

[Brockololly]

ejoslin wrote..
Wait, WAIT!  There are less than half the dialog lines in DA2 than there are in DAO?  Where did you find these numbers?  And are these voiced lines or all lines?  That is a HUGE reduction, if it is true, either way.

This, IMO, would be awful if it's true.  the friendship and romance building were such a major part of DAO -- taking that away or reducing it would be...  ugh.  I thought the game was going to be shorter due to a lot less fluff and filler stuff, not less in the relationship (friendships and lovers).  Or is it going to be less story building?

Oh, I hope you are wrong.

Its from an interview with Mark Darrah in the RPG France preview thread.

* How will the voice acting will be  handled in DA2? Will it have more or less the same amount of actors? How many lines of dialogues? What about localisations? Will there be some  fully translated version?

So I think there is, like what, 30.000 lines of dialogues in DA2....

According to this, Origins had about 68,260 lines of character dialogue. And ME2 had "over 25,000" lines of conversational dialogue. So if DA2 is about  30,000 lines of character/conversational dialogue, thats less than half of the dialogue that was in Origins and about the same as ME2, which, sadly, if the game is supposed to be ME2 length, probably makes sense. [smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/sad.png[/smilie]

Modifié par Brockololly, 23 décembre 2010 - 05:12 .

[HolyJellyfish]

@Brockololly I'm not disappointed by much, and I am excited to see what happens, but that is news that disappoints me.



Dialogue was the thing that kept me going in DA:O. It made it fun. I really hope they didn't cut the banter.

[Brockololly]

Gaider has said (at PAX I think) that they had just as much companion dialogue as Origins, but we'll only know once we can play the game. As Awakening showed me, the dialogue system itself is just as important as the amount of dialogue in interacting with the companions and how we're able to interact (or not) with the companions via dialogue and stat based dialogue like persuade/cunning and such is something I'd like to hear more specifics about.

[Shepard Lives]

Or maybe they have less dialogue because they cut out a buttload of sidequest fluff and ambient dialogue. Frankly, I'd be okay with that.

As long as the characters don't end up underdeveloped because of lack of dialogue like in ME2, I'll be fine.

[Addai]

Ambient dialogue is very important to make the world realistic, though. Unless you want to have a lot of NPCs wandering around saying nothing or repeating the same line over and over every time you get near.

[Shepard Lives]

Addai67 wrote...

Ambient dialogue is very important to make the world realistic, though. Unless you want to have a lot of NPCs wandering around saying nothing or repeating the same line over and over every time you get near.

I'd rather just have ambient NPCs being unclickable. You can't possibly think that pointing your mouse at a random servant girl and hearing "the arl is a ******"  makes the world more realistic. Especially when it's the only thing she has to say, time and time again.
I support cutting out single-line NPCs for DAII.

[Addai]

But you should still be able to overhear conversations if you walk close to two NPCs talking, for example.

[Piecake]

shepard_lives wrote...

Addai67 wrote...

Ambient dialogue is very important to make the world realistic, though. Unless you want to have a lot of NPCs wandering around saying nothing or repeating the same line over and over every time you get near.

I'd rather just have ambient NPCs being unclickable. You can't possibly think that pointing your mouse at a random servant girl and hearing "the arl is a ******"  makes the world more realistic. Especially when it's the only thing she has to say, time and time again.
I support cutting out single-line NPCs for DAII.

I'd rather have ambient NPCs look like they are going about their daily lives - meaning movement, talking to shop keepers, going in and out of shops, houses, etc.  Have some hustle and bustle. 

That is definitely what was lacking in DAO, the NPCs didnt wander around, they didnt feel 'alive' so the city didn't feel alive.

[Wissenschaft]

Piecake wrote...

shepard_lives wrote...

Addai67 wrote...

Ambient dialogue is very important to make the world realistic, though. Unless you want to have a lot of NPCs wandering around saying nothing or repeating the same line over and over every time you get near.

I'd rather just have ambient NPCs being unclickable. You can't possibly think that pointing your mouse at a random servant girl and hearing "the arl is a ******"  makes the world more realistic. Especially when it's the only thing she has to say, time and time again.
I support cutting out single-line NPCs for DAII.

I'd rather have ambient NPCs look like they are going about their daily lives - meaning movement, talking to shop keepers, going in and out of shops, houses, etc.  Have some hustle and bustle. 

That is definitely what was lacking in DAO, the NPCs didnt wander around, they didnt feel 'alive' so the city didn't feel alive.

The kids in Denerim were running around........

[Master Shiori]

shepard_lives wrote...

Or maybe they have less dialogue because they cut out a buttload of sidequest fluff and ambient dialogue. Frankly, I'd be okay with that.

As long as the characters don't end up underdeveloped because of lack of dialogue like in ME2, I'll be fine.

We know DA2 will be shorter than Origins so it follows there will be less dialogue. I agree that it's most likely sidquests and ambient dialogue that got cut. If David said that the amount of companions dialogue was the same as in Origins then we know the cuts weren't make on important stuff.

[Piecake]

the 6 different origin dialogue also got cut

[Wissenschaft]

Less dialogue is very likely the result of the game being shorter, not that anything was cut. I'm sure you will still have sidequest fluff and ambient dialogue. But if you cut the game's length in half, you'd still have a 40+ hour long game and you'd naturally end up with a lot less Dialogue.

Modifié par Wissenschaft, 23 décembre 2010 - 05:57 .

[HolyJellyfish]

Well, I didn't quite take the six different origin dialogue streams, which were quite a lot... quiiite a lot. So I feel a bit more comfortable now.

[Brockololly]

Piecake wrote...

That is definitely what was lacking in DAO, the NPCs didnt wander around, they didnt feel 'alive' so the city didn't feel alive.

Its a problem in all BioWare games where you have a large city- they just lack any pulse and atmosphere. Outside of Athkatla in BG2, BioWare cities in games generally feel very static and stale I think. I'll be curious to see how DA2 pulls off Kirkwall, seeing as its going to be the place we're likely stuck for most of the game. I really hope its more alive like Athkatla as opposed to how rigid Denerim felt.

[ToJKa1]

Addai67 wrote...



Ambient dialogue is very important to make the world realistic, though. Unless you want to have a lot of NPCs wandering around saying nothing or repeating the same line over and over every time you get near.

I saw a mudcrab the other day...



Ambient dialogue, and that they actually do something. That's what i love about Bethesda's games, the NPCs work, eat and sleep during the day.

[Atakuma]

ToJKa1 wrote...

Addai67 wrote...

Ambient dialogue is very important to make the world realistic, though. Unless you want to have a lot of NPCs wandering around saying nothing or repeating the same line over and over every time you get near.

I saw a mudcrab the other day...

Ambient dialogue, and that they actually do something. That's what i love about Bethesda's games, the NPCs work, eat and sleep during the day.

You like when different groups of people have the exact same conversation over and over again?

[slimgrin]

Addai67 wrote...

Ambient dialogue is very important to make the world realistic, though. Unless you want to have a lot of NPCs wandering around saying nothing or repeating the same line over and over every time you get near.

Couldn't agree more. In The Witcher, if you took the time to click on npc's you got nice little details about the plot and side quests. It also makes the game more interactive.

Modifié par slimgrin, 23 décembre 2010 - 07:07 .

[Addai]

Atakuma wrote...

ToJKa1 wrote...

Addai67 wrote...

Ambient dialogue is very important to make the world realistic, though. Unless you want to have a lot of NPCs wandering around saying nothing or repeating the same line over and over every time you get near.

I saw a mudcrab the other day...

Ambient dialogue, and that they actually do something. That's what i love about Bethesda's games, the NPCs work, eat and sleep during the day.

You like when different groups of people have the exact same conversation over and over again?

I at least am saying the exact opposite.  I like lots of ambient dialogue so that people aren't saying the same thing over and over again.  I think Mass Effect does this decently well.