226 réponses à ce sujet

[upsettingshorts]

I don't mind if most people are unclickable and the ambient noise is mostly "rabble rabble." It just seems more "real" that way to me. I am out to talk to who I'm out to talk to, not everyone I run across on my way to the shop. That'd be weird.

In fact I think the best way to do a busy city street is to have it have a ton of unclickable people, but have a general ambient crowd noise. 

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 23 décembre 2010 - 07:40 .

[Graunt]

Brockololly wrote...
According to this, Origins had about 68,260 lines of character dialogue. And ME2 had "over 25,000" lines of conversational dialogue. So if DA2 is about  30,000 lines of character/conversational dialogue, thats less than half of the dialogue that was in Origins and about the same as ME2, which, sadly, if the game is supposed to be ME2 length, probably makes sense. [smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/sad.png[/smilie]

Err, did we play the same games?  I think Origins took me approximately 35ish hours (maybe less) on my first "Normal" playthrough, and that was with a single romance and I didn't skip any cutscenes or randomly mash my keyboard when given text options.  Mass Effect 2 took me approximately the same amount of time because I did everything there was to do in it.

[slimgrin]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

I don't mind if most people are unclickable and the ambient noise is mostly "rabble rabble." It just seems more "real" that way to me. I am out to talk to who I'm out to talk to, not everyone I run across on my way to the shop. That'd be weird.

To me, that's an example of sacrificing game design for realism.

[In Exile]

Piecake wrote...
I'd rather have ambient NPCs look like they are going about their daily lives - meaning movement, talking to shop keepers, going in and out of shops, houses, etc.  Have some hustle and bustle. 

That is definitely what was lacking in DAO, the NPCs didnt wander around, they didnt feel 'alive' so the city didn't feel alive.

It really (and I'm being honest here) just rather have them be the unmoving automatons of Origins, but with the crowd background noise that Shorts mentioned.

This is likely entirely a consequence of my personality, but I just don't care about ambiance. I am not the sit and smell the roses kind of person. I'd just rather they scrap all that in return for one extra sidequest or two.

[Addai]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

I don't mind if most people are unclickable and the ambient noise is mostly "rabble rabble." It just seems more "real" that way to me. I am out to talk to who I'm out to talk to, not everyone I run across on my way to the shop. That'd be weird.

In fact I think the best way to do a busy city street is to have it have a ton of unclickable people, but have a general ambient crowd noise. 

That's fine.  I don't like clicking on things unless there's a real reason to do so.  As long as it sounds like they're actually speaking... Kirkwallian, I guess... then chatter is fine by me.

[Brockololly]

Graunt wrote..
Err, did we play the same games?  I think Origins took me approximately 35ish hours (maybe less) on my first "Normal" playthrough, and that was with a single romance and I didn't skip any cutscenes or randomly mash my keyboard when given text options.  Mass Effect 2 took me approximately the same amount of time because I did everything there was to do in it.

Game length is subjective but my first run of Origins took me about 70 hours- not skipping dialogue, reading the codex, doing most of the side quests. Subesquent runs are shorter (40-50 hours) ME2 took me about 30 hours, of course probably 5 of which was planet scanning:sick:.

I'd naturally prefer a longer game, but so long as the story feels complete, the characters aren't cardboard cutouts that resort to calibrations after a couple conversations and the story doesn't leave glaring loose ends or under developed plots *cough*Awakening*cough*, then length can vary. Its just that in most games, especially RPGs, I find that a shorter game often leaves stuff to be desired.

Modifié par Brockololly, 23 décembre 2010 - 08:36 .

[Piecake]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

I don't mind if most people are unclickable and the ambient noise is mostly "rabble rabble." It just seems more "real" that way to me. I am out to talk to who I'm out to talk to, not everyone I run across on my way to the shop. That'd be weird.

In fact I think the best way to do a busy city street is to have it have a ton of unclickable people, but have a general ambient crowd noise. 

Sounds fantastic

Modifié par Piecake, 23 décembre 2010 - 08:43 .

[upsettingshorts]

slimgrin wrote...

To me, that's an example of sacrificing game design for realism.

Wat.  What's so great about clicking on a dude 5 times to hear 5 canned phrases?  You can still have the occasional random NPC with something to say, just make them clickable.  But for general noise you don't need canned phrases that get old after you've already heard them once, especially if you're going to hear them a thousand times.  

I've heard "Youre getting old granny" about 1841 times in The Witcher - ok, it's closer to like 90.  But still,  I was amused for maybe the first... two.

Piecake wrote...



Sounds fantastic

That was indeed the reference, though of course I don't actually mean just layering the sound of people babbling over each other.  

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 23 décembre 2010 - 08:45 .

[slimgrin]

Addai67 wrote...

Upsettingshorts wrote...

I don't mind if most people are unclickable and the ambient noise is mostly "rabble rabble." It just seems more "real" that way to me. I am out to talk to who I'm out to talk to, not everyone I run across on my way to the shop. That'd be weird.

In fact I think the best way to do a busy city street is to have it have a ton of unclickable people, but have a general ambient crowd noise. 

That's fine.  I don't like clicking on things unless there's a real reason to do so.  As long as it sounds like they're actually speaking... Kirkwallian, I guess... then chatter is fine by me.

And yet it's perfectly feasible to talk to random people on your way to the shop. I've always found that immersion and ambience are generally lacking in Bioware's games but meh, I guess if one wants to be continually reminded you are just playing a game then I guess their version of area design is serviceable.

Modifié par slimgrin, 23 décembre 2010 - 09:21 .

[Piecake]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

slimgrin wrote...

To me, that's an example of sacrificing game design for realism.

Wat.  What's so great about clicking on a dude 5 times to hear 5 canned phrases?  You can still have the occasional random NPC with something to say, just make them clickable.  But for general noise you don't need canned phrases that get old after you've already heard them once, especially if you're going to hear them a thousand times.  

I've heard "Youre getting old granny" about 1841 times in The Witcher - ok, it's closer to like 90.  But still,  I was amused for maybe the first... two.

Piecake wrote...



Sounds fantastic

That was indeed the reference, though of course I don't actually mean just layering the sound of people babbling over each other.  

Oh, i know.  I just felt like being a douche.  But yea, crowd noise along with movement and the feeling that people are living their lives, not just standing there, the whole time is what I want for the non-shopkeeper/quest/interesting people

[AlanC9]

Upsettingshorts wrote...


Wat.  What's so great about clicking on a dude 5 times to hear 5 canned phrases?  You can still have the occasional random NPC with something to say, just make them clickable.  But for general noise you don't need canned phrases that get old after you've already heard them once, especially if you're going to hear them a thousand times.  

How about like ME2, where NPCs aren't clickable if they only have one line -- instead, they talk when you're in hearing range. Some even have several lines in sequence. I'm thinking of the quarian-turian couple on Ilium in particular.

[AlanC9]

slimgrin wrote...
And yet it's perfectly feasible to talk to random people on your way to the shop.

Do you actually do this IRL?

[Addai]

Some areas in ME2 have NPCs that are clickable with only one line. I kind of hate that, actually, though I think it's done to give you in-game information (like on Jacob's quest).

Modifié par Addai67, 23 décembre 2010 - 09:04 .

[Addai]

slimgrin wrote...
And yet it's perfectly feasible to talk to random people on your way to the shop. I've always found that immersion and ambience are generally lacking in Bioware's games but meh, I guess If one wants to be continually reminded you are just playing a game then I guess their version of area design is serviceable.

Then I'd expect to hear them say "good day to you" or something like that, not whatever random comment usually comes out.  Which would also be boring and repetitive.

[slimgrin]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

Wat.  What's so great about clicking on a dude 5 times to hear 5 canned phrases?  You can still have the occasional random NPC with something to say, just make them clickable.  But for general noise you don't need canned phrases that get old after you've already heard them once, especially if you're going to hear them a thousand times.  

I've heard "Youre getting old granny" about 1841 times in The Witcher - ok, it's closer to like 90.  But still,  I was amused for maybe the first... two.

I played in Polish so it didn't bother me. 

But seriously, a balance needs to be struck. Pure rabble, or background noise isn't enough imo. I would also cite GTA4 as an example of effective random dialog and ambience in a game.

It comes down to resources I suppose. Granny didn't need to say her line so many times in TW1. I just like the option to click on random npc's and hear a new line I wouldn't have otherwise.

Modifié par slimgrin, 23 décembre 2010 - 09:09 .

[AlanC9]

Addai67 wrote...

Some areas in ME2 have NPCs that are clickable with only one line. I kind of hate that, actually, though I think it's done to give you in-game information (like on Jacob's quest).

Yeah, I think your're right about the design. Clickable = something the player will get some benefit from doing. Besides mere entertainment, that is.

[ToJKa1]

Atakuma wrote...

ToJKa1 wrote...

Addai67 wrote...

Ambient dialogue is very important to make the world realistic, though. Unless you want to have a lot of NPCs wandering around saying nothing or repeating the same line over and over every time you get near.

I saw a mudcrab the other day...

Ambient dialogue, and that they actually do something. That's what i love about Bethesda's games, the NPCs work, eat and sleep during the day.

You like when different groups of people have the exact same conversation over and over again?

More dialogue would be better, but even repeating ambient dialogue is IMO better than complete silence.

Then again, Bioware's current approach of having certain people have a conversation when you approach them the first time works just as well.

[zidercol]

there was no enemies in the end on the map... i walked for hours befor met some orks. =)



Really don't understend the 2nd part of DA - For what ? In 1st part of DA you had freedom of choose, but in 2nd You can have just 1 main hero (thich's look like Lady Gaga - metal hand, supper sword-staff, tatoo on the face, fur hood, left hand is bigger than his leg, etc). You can walk , most of all, just in 1 city - Is this city Really big, like country ? If the Bioware wanted to give 1 new part of the World per 2 Parts of DA - the whole world we will see just in ...mmm... 2010+2*8 = 2026. May be it's better to forget about game till what ?

Ohh, one more thing - may be it's good to make main hero looks like pop-star, but in the end this hero gonna be just any one other have.

[upsettingshorts]

zidercol - You will be able to change how Hawke appears in Dragon Age 2.

[zidercol]

i've remember - "fun service" is the name of all of this.

___

but everything else is like i've said ?

[upsettingshorts]

I don't know what to say to most of it. Kirkwall is going to be the focus, as one big city - something Bioware sorta did before in Baldur's Gate 2.

The rest is honestly stuff we don't know for sure yet - such as what armor Hawke is going to have access to throughout the game, or if you'll always want to use the sword-staff.

In terms of the character... I could say that my guess is that while Dragon Age Origins had a lot of choice in the beginning, not a lot in the middle, and some at the end - Dragon Age 2 will have not a lot of choice in the beginning, a lot in the middle, and some at the end.

Put another way, again if I had to guess - I'd say Origins was about "who is the Grey Warden" and DA2 is about "how did Hawke become champion."

So in the same way that my Warden is probably a different person than your Warden in many ways, it might turn out that after playing DA2, your Hawke and my Hawke rose to power in very different ways for very different reasons.

But I could very well be wrong.

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 23 décembre 2010 - 11:54 .

[zidercol]

I hope everything gonna be like you said... i just little bit demotivated by new vision of game.

[In Exile]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

In terms of the character... I could say that my guess is that while Dragon Age Origins had a lot of choice in the beginning, not a lot in the middle, and some at the end - Dragon Age 2 will have not a lot of choice in the beginning, a lot in the middle, and some at the end.

I think we need to demarcate between the kind of choice we have in DA:O.

You don't really have lots of choice at any point in DA:O. You usually get a bivariate area choice. The origins offer a distinct lack of choice.

What they did was offer you a different origin, though how much that actually means in terms of the character...

I think it always comes down to a personality vs. nurture difference. I don't think where you come from matters so strongly re: who you are.

[upsettingshorts]

I agree, though I didn't want to burden the point with too much nuance - as I was just trying to give a general idea of what I expect.

[zidercol]

DA:O is game for all kinds of gamers, DA2 just for a part. For example - i'm hate to play for humans, especialy for paladins (sword+magic) , because for my mind it's a great cheatcode =) I'm don't like the Hawk for his style, name, character... and for me that's important + Smart players wanted to play in hard game =)