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Please make Tali a romance character for females in ME3


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#251
Rekkampum

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Thundertactics wrote...

Yes. Yes, there would be, because that wouldn't be done retroactively. (Perhaps in a development sense, but not in a continuity sense)
If they literally did that, I would eat my words and apologize.
Otherwise, it's referred to as "retconning".


Even in a continuity sense, there is no "canon" Shepard playthrough apart from that which the player creates, so you'd have to treat how Tali reacts to Shepard in one playthrough separately from the other.

I'm not quite sure why we're arguing about the very definition of words.


We're not arguing over words. We're having a conversation and sharing opinions.

#252
Thundertactics

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Rekkampum wrote...

We're not arguing over words. We're having a conversation and sharing opinions.

Well, it seems we both think the same thing:
The idea of Tali having a romantic relationship with femShep is there very strongly, even for the devs, and affirmed by certain in-game events. While it's not currently possible, aforementioned events could be used (probably with some slight additions to make it seem more logical) as a basis for an actual romantic relationship in the future.

The only difference being that you seem to be a strong proponent of it, while I'm more skeptical. And the fact that you don't accept my definition of "retconning".

#253
Destroy Raiden_

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No. She clearly wants female friends. She wasn’t interested in 1 isn’t interested in 2 so if they suddenly make her bi for 3 it makes no sense plus it ruins her already well developed character. I guess people want non Asari girls to be bi because they’re not Asari ME sets them up as mono gendered there for when your fshep romances one she’s technically romancing a guy even though she’s all outwardly female like flowers you just don’t know what sex your getting when you pick em’. For those who don’t know flowers are monogendered too and can change themselves to be either depending on the season and male to female ratio.

#254
MisterDyslexo

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There seems to be major opposition due to the fact you may get hit on. I present two solutions:

1. Deal with it.

Thats right, I said it. If the fact that not only that they are fictional characters made up of polygons isn't enough for you, its a role-playing game, meaning that you can shoot down whoever you want. I'll use, ironically, Tali as an example. I loathre the Talimance. I see her in two ways. One my sister, two a stereotypical (not my view) Palestinian (Geth-Quarians=Israelis-Palestinians). So when she starts hitting on me, I see my sister in a burqa holding an AK-47 in one hand, and an inbred toothless redneck child in the other, while spouting techie stuff in Farsi. Know what I do?

"I'm sorry Tali, I just don't feel that way about you".
I certainly don't die inside when this happens, or have to run to the toilet to vomit or anything. If it does that to anybody, you need to stop playing videogames and go to counseling.

Or you could also just ignore her, which brings up solution number two.

2. Remove the aspect of getting hit on.

This would actually solve a lot of this. First of all, it removes all of that awkward imagery you might get (see above). It also ends Talimances, so long as you have a decent understanding in grammer and what the difference between things like "I can't" and "I won't" mean. A lot of the "But how will I noe if tehy liek meh?" sayers about this can be also appeased with a greater use of body language. Its already has been used a fair amount in Mass Effect, and greatly so in other Bioware games. So this makes things good for both parties because you don't really see that body language of the NPC subconsciously saying "Ooh, I liek Shepard<3" with their body unless you want to see it. That way if somebody's thinking of romance with them, they can get tipped off rather than hit on. Those who don't want to see them that way can, and most likely will, not even notice it. And will likely brush it off if they do.

IMO, the latter seems really out of character for Bioware, which redirects you to Solution 1, DEAL WITH IT.

It is role-playing, and you fill that role however you want to play it. Every choice is absolutely your own to make. If you can't deal with that, you should stop playing RPGs and go play a game that forces you do see the game the way the developers wanted you to see it.

Edit: Posted while I was typing

Destroy Raiden wrote...

No. She clearly wants female
friends. She wasn’t interested in 1 isn’t interested in 2 so if they
suddenly make her bi for 3 it makes no sense plus it ruins her already
well developed character.

She wasn't interested in MaleShep in Mass Effect 1 either, and I doubt she's going to go without being further developed in ME3.


I guess people want non Asari girls to be bi
because they’re not Asari ME sets them up as mono gendered there for
when your fshep romances one she’s technically romancing a guy

[img]http://images.lazygamer.co.za/2009/12/Samara_thumb.jpg-/img]
Not male in my eyes.


even
though she’s all outwardly female like flowers you just don’t know what
sex your getting when you pick em’. For those who don’t know flowers are
monogendered too and can change themselves to be either depending on
the season and male to female ratio.


We agree. Romancing asari in Mass Effect is like screwing a flower.

Bioware tried to pull the veil over our eyes saying "well they're not female, so they're not actually lesbians". That made some people go "Oh okay, no gays in my Mass effect. I feel much better.' whereas other saw them and go "Oh, well they're clearly female, so lesbians, so Bioware does care."
Its all bs trying to trick all of us, using this very hypocritical and sexist standpoint on an entire species, trying to appease two groups on the totally different side of the spectrum, one on technicality and the other physically. Its disgraceful.

Modifié par MisterDyslexo, 21 décembre 2010 - 10:55 .


#255
didymos1120

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Destroy Raiden wrote...

I guess people want non Asari girls to be bi because they’re not Asari ME sets them up as mono gendered there for when your fshep romances one she’s technically romancing a guy even though she’s all outwardly female like flowers you just don’t know what sex your getting when you pick em’. For those who don’t know flowers are monogendered too and can change themselves to be either depending on the season and male to female ratio.


What you're describing about flowers is not being monogendered.  It's being hermaphroditic (or somtimes, the term "androgynous" is used): i.e. both sexes. Two.  Duo.  Not mono.   Also, that's not true for every single species of flowering plant. And actually, the asari aren't technically all guys either.  They're technically all women.  It even says so right in the the Codex. 

Modifié par didymos1120, 21 décembre 2010 - 10:54 .


#256
Thundertactics

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Destroy Raiden wrote...

No. She clearly wants female friends. She wasn’t interested in 1 isn’t interested in 2 so if they suddenly make her bi for 3 it makes no sense plus it ruins her already well developed character. I guess people want non Asari girls to be bi because they’re not Asari ME sets them up as mono gendered there for when your fshep romances one she’s technically romancing a guy even though she’s all outwardly female like flowers you just don’t know what sex your getting when you pick em’. For those who don’t know flowers are monogendered too and can change themselves to be either depending on the season and male to female ratio.

Well, that's one way to put it. And I'm all for the "just very good friends" route.
But to say it would "ruin" her character is a bit excessive; BioWare can mess it up, sure. But they're the same people (Patrick Weekes, specifically) who wrote her, so I do have faith in their ability to do it right.
By now, while femShep and maleShep have a similar overarching plot, their characters, and the ones around them, could be quite divergent. And as such, you could be lenient and say Tali being bi is pretty much an Alternate Universe of sorts. I certainly couldn't imagine her being bisexual in the universe where maleShep exists, but I could imagine the one with femShep might alter her opinion to an extent. (Not drastically, but that's where the whole "retconning" ordeal comes in.)

#257
didymos1120

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MisterDyslexo wrote...
Its all bs trying to trick all of us, using this very hypocritical and sexist standpoint on an entire species, trying to appease two groups on the totally different side of the spectrum, one on technicality and the other physically. Its disgraceful.


The most amusing thing being they got that technicality wrong in the PR, but right in the codex: by definition (and reproductive necessity), a parthenogenetic species is all female.

#258
Aurica

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twilekaoi wrote...

I'm begging you guys, Bioware! I've had her in my party ever since I saved her in ME1. When ME2 came along I was hoping to romance her with my female Shep, but that didn't happen :(
Anyone know of a place or a petition to have a female Shep romance our favorite quarian in ME3?


Then in this case Garrus should have a bi option for male shepard too :)
Its only fair

#259
Rekkampum

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Thundertactics wrote...

Rekkampum wrote...

We're not arguing over words. We're having a conversation and sharing opinions.

Well, it seems we both think the same thing:
The idea of Tali having a romantic relationship with femShep is there very strongly, even for the devs, and affirmed by certain in-game events. While it's not currently possible, aforementioned events could be used (probably with some slight additions to make it seem more logical) as a basis for an actual romantic relationship in the future.

The only difference being that you seem to be a strong proponent of it, while I'm more skeptical. And the fact that you don't accept my definition of "retconning".


I'm not a proponent of anything. I simply am amused by some of Bioware's double-standards when it comes to orientation.

They're uncomfortable with allowing a male Shepard to be homosexual, since he wasn't "built" that way - although the player being able to "build" Shepard to their own liking is what this game is iconic for - and their solution to any possible resistance to same sex portrayals is to invent an all-female race that can successfully mate with either sex (obviously fulfilling countless male fantasies about homosexuality as it applies to women). Now, we have several chances for more realistic portrayals of same-sex pairings scrapped and defended by semantics and shallow understandings of sexuality.

I don't have a problem with your definition at all. It fits perfectly if the game didn't have the level of interactivity it does, which could be seen as its ultimate drawback.

#260
MisterDyslexo

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Aurica wrote...

twilekaoi wrote...

I'm begging you guys, Bioware! I've had her in my party ever since I saved her in ME1. When ME2 came along I was hoping to romance her with my female Shep, but that didn't happen :(
Anyone know of a place or a petition to have a female Shep romance our favorite quarian in ME3?


Then in this case Garrus should have a bi option for male shepard too :)
Its only fair


Actually, this is pretty accurate. There's no solid argument to not include Garrus as a bisexual romance. The best argument has to do in how Shepard serves as Garrus' role-model, and is basically "no way, its just the fact that they're the same gender that the MaleShep-Garrus role-model relationship is at a different point so he can't be romanced. Gender roles and all that hoo-ha". However, this can be spun the opposite way, making it so that it actually make more sense (for some) that Garrus be romanced by MaleShep, saying this greater influence would make it more likely that Garrus would find MaleShep suitable. THis is strengthened further by the fact that FemShep actually has to bring him around to the idea of the two of them being together, so it just makes it easier for MaleShep.

And of course this was so greatly desired for by the fans, and there are also fans who want to see Garrus a s/s romance, so by that logic... :whistle:

Modifié par MisterDyslexo, 21 décembre 2010 - 11:14 .


#261
Rekkampum

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Destroy Raiden wrote...
For those who don’t know flowers are monogendered too and can change themselves to be either depending on the season and male to female ratio.


For one, sex is not the same as gender. All Asari are female in sex, but they have no distinctive genders.

Secondly, I wouldn't use nature to support your example, since there are animals that can literally change their sex to compensate for lack of available breeding partners.

#262
BTG_01

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While I hope everyone gets the love interest they want, I doubt Tali will be romanceable for anyone in ME3 who didn't romance her in ME2 just as the ME1 love interests weren't romanceable in ME2. Personally, I prefer all the characters without the romance, but I'm probably definitely in the minority. Also, while trying not to sound like a know-it-all ******, I would point out that Palestinians speak Arabic. Iranians speak Farsi.

#263
earthbornFemShep

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Personally, when my Shep was talking to Tali it certainly sounded like she was flirting. Then, she just stopped talking to Shep in general. To me, it felt cut. I'm not sure if any of my femSheps would cheat on their ME1-LI for Tali, but I'd like the option.... it also felt like the option should have been there. (otherwise, what was with all the flirting? why not use different dialogue?)

#264
HunterX6

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Just accept the fact that not lot of voice actors want to play the "bi" role plus maybe bioware simply doesnt want to add that to mass effect, just enjoy the game as it is, this game isnt just about romance -_-

#265
Rekkampum

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BTG_01 wrote...

While I hope everyone gets the love interest they want, I doubt Tali will be romanceable for anyone in ME3 who didn't romance her in ME2 just as the ME1 love interests weren't romanceable in ME2. Personally, I prefer all the characters without the romance, but I'm probably definitely in the minority.


You aren't, but while it's there...B)

Actually, you can continue your relationship with Liara from ME1 after completing the Lair of the Shadow Broker mission, which despite being DLC is considered canon, during which you can invite her up to the Normandy and "pseudo" romance her. So.... Ha!

earthbornFemShep wrote...

Personally, when my Shep was
talking to Tali it certainly sounded like she was flirting. Then, she
just stopped talking to Shep in general. To me, it felt cut. I'm not
sure if any of my femSheps would cheat on their ME1-LI for Tali, but I'd
like the option.... it also felt like the option should have been
there. (otherwise, what was with all the flirting? why not use
different dialogue?)


The FemShep audio for Tali was cut from ME2, as AdmiralCheez showed us.

Modifié par Rekkampum, 21 décembre 2010 - 11:42 .


#266
antique_nova

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MisterDyslexo wrote...
She wasn't interested in MaleShep in Mass Effect 1 either, and I doubt she's going to go without being further developed in ME3.

She was interested in maleshep in ME1, Liara even tells you if you romance Tali in ME2. I guess Tali was too shy, the only reason for the ME2 romance was because she let slip her interest.

#267
BTG_01

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Rekkampum wrote...

BTG_01 wrote...

While I hope everyone gets the love interest they want, I doubt Tali will be romanceable for anyone in ME3 who didn't romance her in ME2 just as the ME1 love interests weren't romanceable in ME2. Personally, I prefer all the characters without the romance, but I'm probably definitely in the minority.


You aren't, but while it's there...B)

Actually, you can continue your relationship with Liara from ME1 after completing the Lair of the Shadow Broker mission, which despite being DLC is considered canon, during which you can invite her up to the Normandy and "pseudo" romance her. So.... Ha!


Really? I did that mission and picked most of the friendlier conversation options and didn't get anything romance-y. Well, I guess I'm off to check youtube.

#268
jlb524

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antique_nova wrote...

MisterDyslexo wrote...
She wasn't interested in MaleShep in Mass Effect 1 either, and I doubt she's going to go without being further developed in ME3.

She was interested in maleshep in ME1, Liara even tells you if you romance Tali in ME2. I guess Tali was too shy, the only reason for the ME2 romance was because she let slip her interest.


But, this was not depicted in ME1.  Tali behaves the same around MaleShep and FemShep.

Thus, all that stuff added in ME2 about ME1 is a retcon.

TBH, I don't think it matters if Tali shows interest in FemShep in ME3 or not, as they can always add in a nice explanation in ME3 for why she didn't act on her feelings sooner, similar with what they did to the MaleShep romance.

#269
antique_nova

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HunterX6 wrote...

Just accept the fact that not lot of voice actors want to play the "bi" role plus maybe bioware simply doesnt want to add that to mass effect, just enjoy the game as it is, this game isnt just about romance -_-

Solid point that just throws the discussion out the window, Tali's romance dialogue can be unisex, while sheps can't be, but they are actors who can get this because it's acting, but then again they always look at what they are doing before wanting to take that job/action.

#270
MisterDyslexo

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HunterX6 wrote...

Just accept the fact that not lot of voice actors want to play the "bi" role plus maybe bioware simply doesnt want to add that to mass effect, just enjoy the game as it is, this game isnt just about romance -_-


True, but I seriously don't think the PC Voice actor (Meer or Hale) is seriously going to pass over a huge payday to avoid saying a few extra lines in addition to the thousnads they already have.

Modifié par MisterDyslexo, 21 décembre 2010 - 11:54 .


#271
Rekkampum

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BTG_01 wrote...

Rekkampum wrote...

BTG_01 wrote...

While I hope everyone gets the love interest they want, I doubt Tali will be romanceable for anyone in ME3 who didn't romance her in ME2 just as the ME1 love interests weren't romanceable in ME2. Personally, I prefer all the characters without the romance, but I'm probably definitely in the minority.


You aren't, but while it's there...B)

Actually, you can continue your relationship with Liara from ME1 after completing the Lair of the Shadow Broker mission, which despite being DLC is considered canon, during which you can invite her up to the Normandy and "pseudo" romance her. So.... Ha!


Really? I did that mission and picked most of the friendlier conversation options and didn't get anything romance-y. Well, I guess I'm off to check youtube.


You have to speak to her again, after the mission is completed to get the option to pop up. Here you go

#272
BTG_01

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Rekkampum wrote...

BTG_01 wrote...

Rekkampum wrote...
You aren't, but while it's there...B)

Actually, you can continue your relationship with Liara from ME1 after completing the Lair of the Shadow Broker mission, which despite being DLC is considered canon, during which you can invite her up to the Normandy and "pseudo" romance her. So.... Ha!


Really? I did that mission and picked most of the friendlier conversation options and didn't get anything romance-y. Well, I guess I'm off to check youtube.


You have to speak to her again, after the mission is completed to get the option to pop up. Here you go


Isn't that a Shepard who romanced her in ME1?

If so, there's a slight misunderstanding, I was saying that the player can't start a romance with an ME1 love interest in ME2, I wasn't saying that they couldn't continue one.

If not, well then it's just me being an idiot again, so I will await your correction.

#273
Rekkampum

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BTG_01 wrote...

Rekkampum wrote...

BTG_01 wrote...

Rekkampum wrote...
You aren't, but while it's there...B)

Actually, you can continue your relationship with Liara from ME1 after completing the Lair of the Shadow Broker mission, which despite being DLC is considered canon, during which you can invite her up to the Normandy and "pseudo" romance her. So.... Ha!


Really? I did that mission and picked most of the friendlier conversation options and didn't get anything romance-y. Well, I guess I'm off to check youtube.


You have to speak to her again, after the mission is completed to get the option to pop up. Here you go


Isn't that a Shepard who romanced her in ME1?

If so, there's a slight misunderstanding, I was saying that the player can't start a romance with an ME1 love interest in ME2, I wasn't saying that they couldn't continue one.

If not, well then it's just me being an idiot again, so I will await your correction.


Actually, you can't romance if you are currently involved with someone, - except Kelly lol - but if you aren't in a relationship, you can begin one with Liara.

#274
BTG_01

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Okay, thanks! I'll have to redo LotSB sometime soon.

#275
HunterX6

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MisterDyslexo wrote...

HunterX6 wrote...

Just accept the fact that not lot of voice actors want to play the "bi" role plus maybe bioware simply doesnt want to add that to mass effect, just enjoy the game as it is, this game isnt just about romance -_-


True, but I seriously don't think the PC Voice actor (Meer or Hale) is seriously going to pass over a huge payday to avoid saying a few extra lines in addition to the thousnads they already have.


well who knows, but some actors might simply reject the money and even those in mass effect . Remember sometimes they make a video of the game cast, (the voice actors) and most wouldnt like people knowing that they played "bi" especially if those actors have kids or family,etc who play mass effect. Even if they accept it cause its just a "game" that leaves bioware to do the animation and they have family and a reputation to protect too, remember fox news lol....we dont want that again -_-

as for me I wouldnt like it forced on me, such as I am talking to jacob and out of nowhere he says something ******...I wouldnt like that, i dont care if people want to be bi or gay, that their business but I dont like it when they try to say or act attracted to me since I am straight and it makes me uncomfortably mad, if they chose too make it like that they should ask you or give you a option in the menu if your bi,pedo,furry lover or w/e.