418 réponses à ce sujet

[RhiGibson]

Ignore

Modifié par RhiGibson, 22 décembre 2010 - 03:24 .

[Count Viceroy]

Nashiktal wrote...


Actually Tali was supposed to be a love interest in ME1, but they retconned it because they figured no one would want to romance a girl with duck feet.

shows what they know eh?

Growing up with Captain Kirk one would have thought that obvious.

[adneate]

Destroy Raiden wrote...

If people are so upset of not having games that have f/f and m/m pairings why don't you guys take game classes and make them yourself. I'm not saying this to be a mean **** I'm saying if you don't like it make the game you want and see if it sells. Obviously there is a market out there it just ain't here I think BW has pushed that envelope all they're willing to do with the f/f that already exists. Look at it this way they took those bi sections out for a reason, what that is only they know you can either bombard the dev department for answers, try to beat the m//f crowd to death to want what you do or you can enjoy the game for what it is and how BW has composed it.

Yes because BioWare, much like God is infalliable, they never make mistakes ever. Nobody is telling them what to do they have 100% artistic freedom under the second largest multi-national publicly traded publisher.

Modifié par adneate, 22 décembre 2010 - 03:18 .

[HolyJellyfish]

Destroy Raiden wrote...

If people are so upset of not having games that have f/f and m/m pairings why don't you guys take game classes and make them yourself. I'm not saying this to be a mean **** I'm saying if you don't like it make the game you want and see if it sells. Obviously there is a market out there it just ain't here I think BW has pushed that envelope all they're willing to do with the f/f that already exists. Look at it this way they took those bi sections out for a reason, what that is only they know you can either bombard the dev department for answers, try to beat the m//f crowd to death to want what you do or you can enjoy the game for what it is and how BW has composed it.

Wow. Telling people to 'deal with it', and go hide away somewhere else save from everyone else's feelings. I love living in a closet.

There is nothing wrong with the straight crowd. There are plenty of straight people on here who are willing to support the f/f m/m ideas. I take up an issue with the jerks who identify as straight who make it their job to dash and **** and being complete jerks to anyone who wants an alternative. That screams of homophobia.

When one group of fans feel left out because their sexuality & gender isn't being supported equally in a game that claims equal coverage, they have every right to talk about it.

And no, they didn't push the envelope. If you want to see BW push the envelope, look at Dragon Age. m/m has been entirely neglected, and f/f is limited to only a single relationship.

[jlb524]

Nashiktal wrote...

jlb524 wrote...


They didn't have to make a huge announcement when they retconned Tali into liking humans in ME2.

I also wasn't aware there needs to be a limit on bi characters in a gaming series.

Actually Tali was supposed to be a love interest in ME1, but they retconned it because they figured no one would want to romance a girl with duck feet.

shows what they know eh?

Well, some claim she was supposed to be an f/f LI in ME2 but then they got cold feet.  Now, look at all the people that want that included.

Shows what they know eh?

[RhiGibson]

HolyJellyfish wrote...

Destroy Raiden wrote...

If people are so upset of not having games that have f/f and m/m pairings why don't you guys take game classes and make them yourself. I'm not saying this to be a mean **** I'm saying if you don't like it make the game you want and see if it sells. Obviously there is a market out there it just ain't here I think BW has pushed that envelope all they're willing to do with the f/f that already exists. Look at it this way they took those bi sections out for a reason, what that is only they know you can either bombard the dev department for answers, try to beat the m//f crowd to death to want what you do or you can enjoy the game for what it is and how BW has composed it.

Wow. Telling people to 'deal with it', and go hide away somewhere else save from everyone else's feelings. I love living in a closet.

There is nothing wrong with the straight crowd. There are plenty of straight people on here who are willing to support the f/f m/m ideas. I take up an issue with the jerks who identify as straight who make it their job to dash and **** and being complete jerks to anyone who wants an alternative. That screams of homophobia.

When one group of fans feel left out because their sexuality & gender isn't being supported equally in a game that claims equal coverage, they have every right to talk about it.

And no, they didn't push the envelope. If you want to see BW push the envelope, look at Dragon Age. m/m has been entirely neglected, and f/f is limited to only a single relationship.

*Gives Cookie* <3

Agree with everything you have said with above and below comment

Modifié par RhiGibson, 22 décembre 2010 - 03:25 .

[HolyJellyfish]

And by the way? People have a right to demand equal representation from a game that claims to allow people to customize and create the game however they like.

Especially in a period where so many homosexuals & bisexuals are targetted, attacked, harmed, insulted, and denied rights. If you pump in that option even a little bit into a game that has been strictly marketed to the casual straight male demograph, breaking down those walls and making that culture normal tends to take away from the homophobic BS prevalent in the gaming community. And if you think that is unrealistic of Mass Effect, then you need to live in the real world.



My two cents and I'm sticking with it.

[Destroy Raiden_]

quote]HolyJellyfish wrote...
Wow. Telling people to 'deal with it', and go hide away somewhere else save from everyone else's feelings. I love living in a closet.

There is nothing wrong with the straight crowd. There are plenty of straight people on here who are willing to support the f/f m/m ideas. I take up an issue with the jerks who identify as straight who make it their job to dash and **** and being complete jerks to anyone who wants an alternative. That screams of homophobia.

When one group of fans feel left out because their sexuality & gender isn't being supported equally in a game that claims equal coverage, they have every right to talk about it.

And no, they didn't push the envelope. If you want to see BW push the envelope, look at Dragon Age. m/m has been entirely neglected, and f/f is limited to only a single relationship.

[/quote]

Where exactly did I physically write deal with it? I said make the games you want. If you wish to take that as a deal with it then that’s on you.

As far as equality goes there can never be true equality unless it is forced. There is inequality in pay from males to females, there is inequality in hiring demographics some blacks in those demographics get hired more then whites, Some whites get hired more in another demographic then blacks, some people have money to go to collage others do not, some people are born well off others are not, and others make their own state of well off others do not. Sorry its a world wide fact that all populations all around the world are unequal not even N.Korea has societal, sexual, working equality you can't find it, and man can't do it so in that all of us are out of luck and have to just deal with it to coin your words so nicely.

DA was made in a different time with a different target demographic audience. ME is made in a different time with a different set of target audience so that’s why no m/m is in there.

Modifié par Destroy Raiden , 22 décembre 2010 - 03:29 .

[didymos1120]

Nashiktal wrote...
Actually Tali was supposed to be a love interest in ME1, but they retconned it because they figured no one would want to romance a girl with duck feet.

shows what they know eh?

I've heard people repeat this before, but where was this ever said?  I'm only aware of the very much post-ME1 chat with Casey Hudson where he said this:

CaseyH-ME2: In ME1 Tali was kind of a young character, on her "pilgrimage", so she wasn't a love interest option. One cool thing ME1 players will notice is that the characters they know and love from the first game have grown up and moved on a bit. Tali is more mature now. We were surprised to see how many people were interested in her as a love interest, given that she wore a mask, was an alien, and as one of our team members said, she had "chicken feet". Will she take things further with you? There's a great story there, but I won't spoil it for you!

I.e., it sure sounds like the Tali idea only occurred to them due to fan response to ME1 and that they had no intention to make  her an LI before that.

[Count Viceroy]

HolyJellyfish wrote...

And by the way? People have a right to demand equal representation from a game that claims to allow people to

.

I agree with this thread and I think the cutting of content was retarded, as it seems they basically gave into fox news and its sideboob bull****. 

But this is where you are wrong. You have no right to anything. You're not entitled to anything what so ever. You aren't forced to buy the product. This is entierly up to Bioware.

Modifié par Count Viceroy, 22 décembre 2010 - 03:31 .

[Nashiktal]

jlb524 wrote...

Nashiktal wrote...

jlb524 wrote...


They didn't have to make a huge announcement when they retconned Tali into liking humans in ME2.

I also wasn't aware there needs to be a limit on bi characters in a gaming series.

Actually Tali was supposed to be a love interest in ME1, but they retconned it because they figured no one would want to romance a girl with duck feet.

shows what they know eh?

Well, some claim she was supposed to be an f/f LI in ME2 but then they got cold feet.  Now, look at all the people that want that included.

Shows what they know eh?

Yup, I love bioware but they seem to get a bit cowardly about this sort of thing. 

Modifié par Nashiktal, 22 décembre 2010 - 03:33 .

[HolyJellyfish]

@Destroy

You said Go leave make your own game stop complaining. That screams of 'Deal with it. ME isn't changing'



Yeah. There is a lack of equality. In the REAL WORLD. Mass Effect doesn't have to share that social paradigm. It can change it. In many ways, it has. Its a video game that isn't an extension of this world, just influenced by it. ME claims it gives an equal game for all, but in the same token its denying a lot of people a good gaming experience because its only giving options to heterosexual players.



And ME has tried to tinker in with the m/m quite a bit, only to constantly pull it. I think that's horrible. THe only reason I can imagine Bioware is pulling it is to cater to the homophobic straight male crowd, and THAT is sexist, narrow, and perpetuates that sense of inequality into an RPG / Fantasy world.



So people here have a right to create a support thread and talk about these issues. These things typically get people's attention and generate more support. Hell, look at Garrus. I doubt he'd been an LI if it wasn't for all that damn fansupport.

[HolyJellyfish]

Count Viceroy wrote...

But this is where you are wrong. You have no right to anything. You're not entitled to anything what so ever. You aren't forced to buy the product. This is entierly up to Bioware.

People do have a right when Choice, Customizability, and Be Your Own Shepard is the main marketing strategy behind ME.

[didymos1120]

HolyJellyfish wrote...
There is nothing wrong with the straight crowd. There are plenty of straight people on here who are willing to support the f/f m/m ideas.

*raises hand*

Personally, I'm not even interested in the "Ogling Tali+FemShep" factor. I don't particularly like her as an MShep LI either, though I've played through it once (kinda cute, but my belief just wasn't sufficiently suspended). I'd only pursue it again, whatever genders were involved, if some achievement was tied up with it...maybe.  It's the double-standards and really stupid anti-same-sex arguments that bug me.

[thatguy212]

Okay not trying to start anything here but is there proof that a lesbian tali romance was cut other than the suit link line, because i know they found dialogue of femshep and miranda were going to have a romance (mordin sex advice), i'm just an ill informed person (only did one femshep so far and i revealed evidence at the trial) not a anti-gay person trying to stir up stuff

[HolyJellyfish]

@didymos

I'm on the same camp with you, Didy. I don't particularly care for same sex pairings, but I will support other people who want them. They deserve to have as fun a game experience as I do.

[jlb524]

Count Viceroy wrote...

But this is where you are wrong. You have no right to anything. You're not entitled to anything what so ever. You aren't forced to buy the product. This is entierly up to Bioware.

No one has a 'right' to anything.  The purpose of these forums is to make suggestions for future ME content. 

It's much like all the 'I want Tali to be an LI in ME2' threads that used to pop up on the old forums.  These people didn't have a 'right' to have Tali as an LI but they still asked for it.  No big deal.

[jlb524]

didymos1120 wrote...
 It's the double-standards and really stupid anti-same-sex arguments that bug me.

Yep.

I personally don't care for Tali as an LI, FemShep or MaleShep, but the double standards applied to people asking for them are awful.

[HolyJellyfish]

thatguy212 wrote...

Okay not trying to start anything here but is there proof that a lesbian tali romance was cut other than the suit link line, because i know they found dialogue of femshep and miranda were going to have a romance (mordin sex advice), i'm just an ill informed person (only did one femshep so far and i revealed evidence at the trial) not a anti-gay person trying to stir up stuff

Yes, but we are saying it could be reinvestigated. And it can be in ME3.

And I get the impression one of the reasons it was cut was because they didn't know exactly how to handle the Thane M/M relationship, so chucked it along with Tali's F/F to keep the game balanced between LIs. Which just doesn't make sense to me.

[Destroy Raiden_]

Count Viceroy wrote...

HolyJellyfish wrote...

And by the way? People have a right to demand equal representation from a game that claims to allow people to

.

I agree with this thread and I think the cutting of content was retarded, as it seems they basically gave into fox news and its sideboob bull****. 

But this is where you are wrong. You have no right to anything. You're not entitled to anything what so ever. You aren't forced to buy the product. This is entierly up to Bioware.

I agree with no one is entitled to anything. The only thing I am entitled to in the world of man is food, clothing, and shelter be it my food is my kill, my clothing is the skin from that kill, and my shelter is a shanty shack. Now under my constitution I'm granted with the Inalienable rights to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness so long as that happiness doesn't include me being happy by murdering and killing my neighbors.

I'm not entitled to my car, internet, my 401K, my apartment, or to own a pet over 90% of my life as it stands is not an entitlement but a privilege that must be taken care of not destroyed or misused.

[HolyJellyfish]

@destroy You are also entitled to be able to love whoever you wish to love.



Keep that in mind. Freedom to romance and breed and knock boots with whoever you want should go hand in hand with that.



And how dare you equate someone's entitlement of sexual orientation to a freaking pet, apartment, the internet, or car.

[Destroy Raiden_]

HolyJellyfish wrote...

@Destroy
You said Go leave make your own game stop complaining. That screams of 'Deal with it. ME isn't changing'

Yeah. There is a lack of equality. In the REAL WORLD. Mass Effect doesn't have to share that social paradigm. It can change it. In many ways, it has. Its a video game that isn't an extension of this world, just influenced by it. ME claims it gives an equal game for all, but in the same token its denying a lot of people a good gaming experience because its only giving options to heterosexual players.

And ME has tried to tinker in with the m/m quite a bit, only to constantly pull it. I think that's horrible. THe only reason I can imagine Bioware is pulling it is to cater to the homophobic straight male crowd, and THAT is sexist, narrow, and perpetuates that sense of inequality into an RPG / Fantasy world.

So people here have a right to create a support thread and talk about these issues. These things typically get people's attention and generate more support. Hell, look at Garrus. I doubt he'd been an LI if it wasn't for all that damn fansupport.

Wrong I said take gaming classes and make your own games where in that sentence is the go away part?
 
As far as feeling alienated I can’t help you there I feel alienated when the triple K used to roll through my town but oh well….Now I have others I’m not whining about it to high heaven I see it, I accept it, and guess what I go about my life. If BW is pulling the s/s dialogue it is because they have a reason you need to ask devs on it not bash the demographic they picked for the game anyway.
 
If you want to make a post for tali being an f/f LI go here in the general form those who appose will more likely do so at the link rather then there:  http://social.biowar...3/index/2883314

Or you can go under Tali's support thread in Characters form it's not like she doesn't have any support threads.

[Destroy Raiden_]

HolyJellyfish wrote...

@destroy You are also entitled to be able to love whoever you wish to love.

Keep that in mind. Freedom to romance and breed and knock boots with whoever you want should go hand in hand with that.

And how dare you equate someone's entitlement of sexual orientation to a freaking pet, apartment, the internet, or car.

You aren’t entitled to love you choose love not the same thing. You also choose who not to love. So I say I'm not entitled to owning a pet and that translates into orientation how?

[didymos1120]

thatguy212 wrote...

Okay not trying to start anything here but is there proof that a lesbian tali romance was cut other than the suit link line, because i know they found dialogue of femshep and miranda were going to have a romance (mordin sex advice), i'm just an ill informed person (only did one femshep so far and i revealed evidence at the trial) not a anti-gay person trying to stir up stuff

Alright, here's what I've found:

Miranda, Tali, Jack: all have partiallly recorded same-sex FemShep dialogue, and that includes the Mordin Sex Talk responses for FemShep (also includes FemShep Renegade Sex with Jack).

Jacob, Thane: both have partially recorded MShep same-sex dialogue, but MShep has no responses to Mordin's advice about either.  Both are noticeably less complete than the f/f FemShep dialogue, though.

Garrus: there's a single MShep line, and it's clearly a gag.  MShep responds to the turian sex advice from Mordin with a ridiculously robotic "I. AM. NOT. SCREWING. GARRUS."  Why that's in the game files, I don't know, but it is.

Basically, only the early romance-path dialogue exists. I.e. the stuff before and up to the "official" relationship starting points, but not all of it (and as noted, less was done for the m/m relationships).  Some of the break-up and "I wanna talk about us" dialogue is present. Generally, the further along you go, you more you start finding blank placeholder files, and none of the same-sex "consummation" dialogue for any LI exists.  The evidence suggests that:

a. Everyone, except Garrus, was being considered as a same-sex option, and it was to the point where they actually started recording the necessary Shep dialogue.

b. Relatively early in development they killed that idea and stopped recording those lines

and:

c. The m/m romances were dropped earlier than the f/f ones.

Modifié par didymos1120, 22 décembre 2010 - 04:20 .

[Bamboozalist]

didymos1120 wrote...

thatguy212 wrote...

Okay not trying to start anything here but is there proof that a lesbian tali romance was cut other than the suit link line, because i know they found dialogue of femshep and miranda were going to have a romance (mordin sex advice), i'm just an ill informed person (only did one femshep so far and i revealed evidence at the trial) not a anti-gay person trying to stir up stuff

Alright, here's what I've found:

Miranda, Tali, Jack: all have partiallly recorded same-sex FemShep dialogue, and that includes the Mordin Sex Talk responses for FemShep (also includes FemShep Renegade Sex with Jack).

Jacob, Thane: both have partially recorded MShep same-sex dialogue, but MShep has no responses to Mordin's advice about either.

Garrus: there's a single MShep line, and it's clearly a gag.  MShep responds to the turian sex advice from Mordin with a ridiculously robotic "I. AM. NOT. SCREWING. GARRUS."  Why that's in the game files, I don't know, but it is.

Basically, only the early romance-path dialogue exists. I.e. the stuff before and up to the "official" relationship starting points, but not all of it.  Some of the break-up and "I wanna talk about us" dialogue is present. Generally, the further along you go, you more you start finding blank placeholder files, and none of the same-sex "consummation" dialogue for any LI exists.  The evidence suggests that:

a. Everyone, except Garrus, was being considered as a same-sex option, and it was to the point where they actually started recording the necessary Shep dialogue.

b. Relatively early in development they killed that idea and stopped recording those lines

and:

c. The m/m romances were dropped somewhat earlier than the f/f ones.

Can you post those in your unused audio please?