418 réponses à ce sujet

[Reiella]

GodWood wrote...

I just think it makes the universe [even] less believable when every person my Shep recruits is bisexual.
It's bad enough every female I recruit is of the super hot, skin tight clothing, wants to bed me and me alone variety.

Part of that, well it's more broadly with 'Every Character', than necessarily every female character.  But part of that is because dialog is driven by the NPCs not the PCs.  Freaking painful trying to talk to some characters on the ship when you really don't have interest.

[Xilizhra]

It's bad enough every female I recruit is of the super hot, skin tight clothing, wants to bed me and me alone variety.

I have to point out that given the varied sexual history of Miranda and Jack, Samara's not wanting you, and Kasumi's thing for Jacob, the only two people who fit this are Tali (who's not really skintight) and Morinth.

[GodWood]

Xilizhra wrote...

It's bad enough every female I recruit is of the super hot, skin tight clothing, wants to bed me and me alone variety.

I have to point out that given the varied sexual history of Miranda and Jack, Samara's not wanting you, and Kasumi's thing for Jacob, the only two people who fit this are Tali (who's not really skintight) and Morinth.

Ugh, I'll correct it little miss must pick apart eveything.
It's bad enough practically every female I recruit is of the super hot, skin tight clothing, wants to bed me (exluding one) and me alone variety.
(This includes Tali, Liara, Miranda, Samara (she still wants Shepard) Morinth and Kasumi (excluding the sleep with part))

Modifié par GodWood, 21 décembre 2010 - 03:11 .

[AdmiralCheez]

GodWood wrote...

I just think it makes the universe [even] less believable when every person my Shep recruits is bisexual.
It's bad enough every female I recruit is of the super hot, skin tight clothing, wants to bed me and me alone variety.

Well, let's see.  Miranda and Ashley are straight, Kasumi doesn't want to bed you, Samara turns you down, nobody even knows what Tali looks like, Ash and Liara never wore skin-tight clothing, Jack doesn't even wear clothes and is bald, which is a turn-off for lots of people...  Seriously, out of all of those women, only one of them is a bisexual romance option.  We didn't have ANY non-hetero LIs in ME2, unless you count being shot down by Samara or Kelly dancing before the fish.

[HolyJellyfish]

@xil Agreed. If Asari are meant to be monogendered but female bisexuals (as a lot of people are claiming), then so far in the entire game, they are the only real bisexual characters Shepard has encountered.



Which means, of the entire party from both ME1 - ME2, only one is romancable, one kills with sex, and the other is uninterested due to the code.



Tali has already expressed interest, and was originally designed to romance F!Shepard in ME2, but was chucked because I imagine the writers had a difficult time wrapping their head around a bisexual Thane romance. People would be throwing bigger fits if Male Shepard received fewer romance options than F!Shepard.



Regardless, it is still viable that Tali could potentially reinvestigate her interest in F!Shepard, tossing another LI towards the Male crowd. Keep in mind that despite the fanbase, ME3 will be created for both newcomers and loyal fans alike (just as ME2 was), and cutting out romance option potential wouldn't happen. I imagine there would probably be more LIs, or if not that, opening your old crew to reinvestigate their LI status by Default.



Assuming that is the case, Tali for Fem!Shep is a possibility. And keeping her strictly to Male!Shep world is kind of selfish, especially if people are pulling the "Bisexual characters take away from the story!" Card. She might be totally straight in your world, and she could be totally gay in F!Shep's world. It doesn't matter, because Tali seemed to offer herself two both Sheps. One simply didn't have follow up for the above reasons I mentioned.

[klossen4]

yeah almost all females in the game wants shephard i would not be surprised if the asari on the council also wants you.

[HolyJellyfish]

klossen4 wrote...

yeah almost all females in the game wants shephard i would not be surprised if the asari on the council also wants you.

Considering the other recruitable males are two krogan and a salarian, I'm not offended by this.

(I am not including Kasumi or Zaeed. Assuming DLC doesn't count)

[GodWood]

AdmiralCheez wrote...

GodWood wrote...
I just think it makes the universe [even] less believable when every person my Shep recruits is bisexual.
It's bad enough every female I recruit is of the super hot, skin tight clothing, wants to bed me and me alone variety.

Well, let's see.  Miranda and Ashley are straight, Kasumi doesn't want to bed you, Samara turns you down, nobody even knows what Tali looks like, Ash and Liara never wore skin-tight clothing, Jack doesn't even wear clothes and is bald, which is a turn-off for lots of people...  Seriously, out of all of those women, only one of them is a bisexual romance option.  We didn't have ANY non-hetero LIs in ME2, unless you count being shot down by Samara or Kelly dancing before the fish.

God I should've just said super babe variety...

Not true, Liara is one, Kelly (regardless of its quality) is another, Samara (despite there being no sex) is another, Morinth another, Shaira (a fling but still counts) another and Shiala will inevitably be another.
Thats 6 [female] bisexual characters + theres the fact that there's an entire race of bisexual females.

Modifié par GodWood, 21 décembre 2010 - 03:32 .

[HolyJellyfish]

GodWood wrote...

Not true, Liara is one, Kelly (regardless of its quality) is another, Samara (despite there being no sex) is another, Morinth another, Shaira (a fling but still counts) another and Shiala will inevitably be another.
Thats 6 [female] bisexual characters + theres the fact that there's an entire race of bisexual females.

None of which are viable LI (with exception to Liara. Kelly...? I really don't know how much she counts. She feels like more fanservice, for both ladies and boys).

Its a sci-fi game. There are massive synthetic-organic creatures out to destroy the earth and you can't accept one character exploring a lesbian-optional relationship?

I'm not a Talimancer either, but this argument doesn't make sense. You don't have to play Fem!Shep, you would never know any of the characters are potentially bisexual. You have the option of encountering only heterosexual options.

Why take issue if you don't have to play a Fem!Shep?

Modifié par HolyJellyfish, 21 décembre 2010 - 03:35 .

[Collider]

Obligatory reading.

[GodWood]

HolyJellyfish wrote...
Assuming that is the case, Tali for Fem!Shep is a possibility. And keeping her strictly to Male!Shep world is kind of selfish, especially if people are pulling the "Bisexual characters take away from the story!" Card. She might be totally straight in your world, and she could be totally gay in F!Shep's world. It doesn't matter, because Tali seemed to offer herself two both Sheps. One simply didn't have follow up for the above reasons I mentioned

What about people who play as Femshep and have no desire to have Tali ****** over them.
I have a female friend who is sick to death of having female characters throw themselves at her Shepard or having her Shepard act as if shes into women.

First there was Shaira's groping.
Then there was Liara's creepy I WANT YOU speech.
Then there was the dat ass Miranda scene.
Then there was Liara throwing herself at femshep again on Ilos.
Then there was the forced to be interested in Shiala's flirting.
Then there was Tali's "I only want to link suits with you" **** (I asked her today)
Then there was the seducing Morinth.
Then there was the sexual tension in LotSB.

Now she has nothing against lesbians it's just that having so many encounters where women are all over her Shepard make her feel like shes not in a believable sci-fi universe but rather a childish male fantasy.

Modifié par GodWood, 21 décembre 2010 - 03:47 .

[Xilizhra]

What about people who play as Femshep and have no desire to have Tali ****** over them.

Then there was Tali's "I only want to link suits with you" **** (I asked her today)

As you've inadverdently demonstrated, Tali still shlicks over Femshep. The only thing cut is being able to respond to it.

[GodWood]

Xilizhra wrote...

What about people who play as Femshep and have no desire to have Tali ****** over them.

Then there was Tali's "I only want to link suits with you" **** (I asked her today)

As you've inadverdently demonstrated, Tali still shlicks over Femshep. The only thing cut is being able to respond to it.

I'm already aware that Tali shows an interest in Femshep and admitted I was wrong about her not being interested a few pages back.
My point now is that I don't want every female to be bisexual.

[Count Viceroy]

Xilizhra wrote...

What about people who play as Femshep and have no desire to have Tali ****** over them.

Then there was Tali's "I only want to link suits with you" **** (I asked her today)

As you've inadverdently demonstrated, Tali still shlicks over Femshep. The only thing cut is being able to respond to it.

He already admited to this on a previous page, sorry to rain on your parade.

[Count Viceroy]

The way I see it, she was supposed to be BI, thats fine. But it was cut, leaving the content there while cutting off the ending just looks stupid and was probably not intended but they most likely didn't bother. I think It would be weird to reinstate the romance in me3.

The decision has been made, however stupid it may have been, its better to stick with it at this point.

Modifié par Count Viceroy, 21 décembre 2010 - 03:53 .

[Xilizhra]

I'm already aware that Tali shows an interest in Femshep and admitted I was wrong about her not being interested a few pages back.

My point now is that I don't want every female to be bisexual.

And your point about being female and not wanting to have Tali be interested in you holds no water.

As for the other thing, I'd be happy to have all females and males alike be bisexual.

[Busomjack]

The problem I have with the Tali romance is that it's never explained why a Quarian would want to scrog a human. A Human and an Asari make sense since Asari's physiology make it not only possible, but desirable to mate with other species. Why would a Human and a Quarian want to scrog though?

It almost felt like it was just a matter of respect. Tali wanted to scrog Shepard as a way of showing her loyalty and appreciation towards him.

[HolyJellyfish]

GodWood wrote...

What about people who play as Femshep and have no desire to have Tali ****** over them.
I have a female friend who is sick to death of having female characters throw themselves at her Shepard or having her Shepard act as if shes into women.

First there was Shaira's groping.
Then there was Liara's creepy I WANT YOU speech.
Then there was the dat ass Miranda scene.
Then there was Liara throwing herself at femshep again on Ilos.
Then there was the forced to be interested in Shiala's flirting.
Then there was Tali's "I only want to link suits with you" **** (I asked her today)
Then there was the seducing Morinth.
Then there was the sexual tension in LotSB.

Now she has nothing against lesbians it's just that having so many encounters where women are all over her Shepard make her feel like shes not in a believable sci-fi universe but rather a childish male fantasy.

That's hearsay, and if there are any women or guys who play Fem!Shep and take issue with it, they can talk it out.

These options happen to Male!Shep. I don't mind that the opportunities are equal for Fem!Shep. If there is issue with Male Gaze writing, then that is another topic entirely.

The lines I bolded are all entirely optional. I play renegade, I've never had the Shiara issue and Liara never threw herself on me. In fact, I rarely saw any lesbian interest in my Shep specifically because I had the option to avoid it, with exception to Morinth and Tali's lines.

In fact, No one has to tackle these relationships. Isn't that part of the Optional Romance territory thing?

[Count Viceroy]

Xilizhra wrote...

As for the other thing, I'd be happy to have all females and males alike be bisexual.

A characters sexuality is a very essential part in how they are written. It should always be defined by the writer. If you want every character to be written around you and your preferences, then why bother at all? Might as well just draw a blank slate on all the companions and let the player design them from the ground up.

Would save up a lot of time on this forum no doubt.

Modifié par Count Viceroy, 21 décembre 2010 - 03:58 .

[HolyJellyfish]

Count Viceroy wrote...

The way I see it, she was supposed to be BI, thats fine. But it was cut, leaving the content there while cutting off the ending just looks stupid and was probably not intended but they most likely didn't bother. I think It would be weird to reinstate the romance in me3.

The decision has been made, however stupid it may have been, its better to stick with it at this point.

But it is still possible to reopen it in ME3. If they treat ME3 the same way they did ME2, reinvestigating LIs for Default Shepards will exist. Reintroducing Tali is a possibility as well.

[GodWood]

Xilizhra wrote...
And your point about being female and not wanting to have Tali be interested in you holds no water.

And why is that?

As for the other thing, I'd be happy to have all females and males alike be bisexual.

And I do not.
Sexuality is part of a person's character, if a character is gay/bisexual I want it to be a written part of their character and not have it simply handwaved as "everybodys bi lol".

[Xilizhra]

I just said I'd be happy, not that I'd actively campaign for it. I have no objection to most of the squadmates being straight; Tali and to a lesser extent Garrus are the only ones where I find it questionable (Garrus not as much, I just think he'd be the best balance for those who wanted an m/m romance option).

And why is that?

I just explained. Tali is interested in Femshep in-game, you just can't reciprocate because that dialogue was cut. Tali's character wasn't revised.

Modifié par Xilizhra, 21 décembre 2010 - 04:00 .

[Count Viceroy]

HolyJellyfish wrote...

But it is still possible to reopen it in ME3. If they treat ME3 the same way they did ME2, reinvestigating LIs for Default Shepards will exist. Reintroducing Tali is a possibility as well.

Wouldn't re-introducing it in Me3 for fshepard be an exact copy of the reintroduction for Mshepard in the second game though?. "I've had feelings for you from the start, just didn't know how you'd react" type of deal.

Modifié par Count Viceroy, 21 décembre 2010 - 04:01 .

[HolyJellyfish]

Count Viceroy wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

As for the other thing, I'd be happy to have all females and males alike be bisexual.

A characters sexuality is a very essential part in how they are written. It should always be defined by the writer. If you want every character to be written around you and your preferences, then why bother at all? Might as well just draw a blank slate on all the companions and let the player design them from the ground up.

Would save up a lot of time on this forum no doubt.

I understand where you are coming from, but this statement isn't entirely true for RPGs.

Writers treat their characters depending on the choices you make. If the world was entirely in their control, there wouldn't be so many different options in the way we treat NPCs, who we romance, and the impact of the decisions we make. The writers at Bioware are careful to consider the weight of our decisions, and change the characters attitudes to fit them.

Consider Tali's Trial. Or Garrus' loyalty mission. Hell, whether Samara lives or dies. These decisions effect the way the characters have to be written, and those decisions are yours alone to make. Tali was predefined to be Bi in the beginning, so it was the writer's intention. It was cut, probably because of Thane's situation. But her lines remained, maybe to reopen the conversation later in ME3 when this possibility could be revisited.

My best guess is Tali maybe open for Lady Sheps in ME3 when the writers can provide another LI to Male!Sheps, so that neither party can be shortsticked.

[jlb524]

GodWood wrote...

Sexuality is part of a person's character, if a character is gay/bisexual I want it to be a written part of their character and not have it simply handwaved as "everybodys bi lol".

Sexuality doesn't have to be a part of a person's 'character'.