418 réponses à ce sujet

[Count Viceroy]

HolyJellyfish wrote...Raf, you have no idea how much you are my hero right now. Thanks man   <3:wizard:

It takes a lot of gall and awesome to be able to accept another point of view and agree on a public forum. You get awesome points for being a cool person.

The internet would be a pretty boring place if this was the norm. Just sayin'

[HolyJellyfish]

@Godwood Then start a thread about how much you dislike the male gaze aspect of the game's writing. There are a lot of issues on that, truly.



But a Tali romance isn't about male gaze. This is actually about ladies who are interested in the idea of a Tali relationship, and that doesn't affect your game playing experience at all.

[HolyJellyfish]

Count Viceroy wrote...

HolyJellyfish wrote...Raf, you have no idea how much you are my hero right now. Thanks man   <3:wizard:

It takes a lot of gall and awesome to be able to accept another point of view and agree on a public forum. You get awesome points for being a cool person.

The internet would be a pretty boring place if this was the norm. Just sayin'

No. I don't think so. The internet would be a nicer place where people don't actively harass and belittle others. We'd draw pictures and share puppy videos.

I personally think the internet would be awesome that way.

[GodWood]

RAF1940 wrote...
I see your point. I stand corrected. If Kaidan or Jacob or whoever came on to my Shepard, I would just ignore it

As would I.
But if Kaiden came onto my male Shep.
Then Jacob.
Then Garrus.
Then Thane.
Then Udina.
Then Anderson

And so on, I'd start to feel like I'm in a yaoi fanfic and not an actual universe.

[HolyJellyfish]

GodWood wrote...

RAF1940 wrote...
I see your point. I stand corrected. If Kaidan or Jacob or whoever came on to my Shepard, I would just ignore it

As would I.
But if Kaiden came onto my male Shep.
Then Jacob.
Then Garrus.
Then Thane.
Then Udina.
Then Anderson

And so on, I'd start to feel like I'm in a yaoi fanfic and not an actual universe.

Yes but they don't. You don't play fem!shep. The only opinion you've used is one person, your friend's. I also have friends who didn't like playing Mass Effect 2 because they don't like shooters. Does that mean we should take out the shooting aspect of the game and give them swords?

[RAF1940]

GodWood wrote...

RAF1940 wrote...
I see your point. I stand corrected. If Kaidan or Jacob or whoever came on to my Shepard, I would just ignore it

As would I.
But if Kaiden came onto my male Shep.
Then Jacob.
Then Garrus.
Then Thane.
Then Udina.
Then Anderson

And so on, I'd start to feel like I'm in a yaoi fanfic and not an actual universe.

You guys make too many good points.....

[GodWood]

HolyJellyfish wrote...
Yes but they don't. You don't play fem!shep.

Yes I do.
I have more femsheps than malesheps as a matter of fact.

[HolyJellyfish]

GodWood wrote...

HolyJellyfish wrote...
Yes but they don't. You don't play fem!shep.

Yes I do.
I have more femsheps than malesheps as a matter of fact.

That's wonderful. Why didn't you mention it earlier? So you should be aware that you can optionally ignore suggestions, lay the smack down, and be pleasantly heterosexual in the game.

Please. Don't tell people how they should interpret and enjoy their game.

If someone wants a Tali romance option, then they have every right to want it when you should know full well all romance options are optional and any lesbian encounters can be knocked in the stomach.

Let people have their cake. You enjoy your cookies.

[HolyJellyfish]

And if you want to further complain about how irritating it is that everyone in the game seems like a Lesbian, and all the Male Gaze writing - A tali support romance thread created by a woman isn't for you.



Go start a Male Gaze thread and actively complain.

[jlb524]

HolyJellyfish wrote...

I didn't see any of the Male!Sheps complaining. And now you are, when we are asking for lesbian options?

This argument confounds me.

Double standard.  All lesbian romances are inherently 'fan service' for straight guys and this is a problem with all f/f romances.

However, if there's a questionable m/f romance, not all m/f romances are called into question.

[GodWood]

HolyJellyfish wrote...

GodWood wrote...

HolyJellyfish wrote...
Yes but they don't. You don't play fem!shep.

Yes I do.
I have more femsheps than malesheps as a matter of fact.

That's wonderful. Why didn't you mention it earlier? So you should be aware that you can optionally ignore suggestions, lay the smack down, and be pleasantly heterosexual in the game.

-sigh-
See the example I gave RAF.

Please. Don't tell people how they should interpret and enjoy their game.

Are you trying to make me out into a villain? Because I never did no such thing.

If someone wants a Tali romance option, then they have every right to want it when you should know full well all romance options are optional and any lesbian encounters can be knocked in the stomach.

Optional or not they affect how the character is portrayed and ultimately effect the player's perception of the universe.

HolyJellyfish wrote...
And if you want to further complain about how irritating it is that everyone in the game seems like a Lesbian, and all the Male Gaze writing - A tali support romance thread created by a woman isn't for you.

Go start a Male Gaze thread and actively complain.

I have no need to as I'm still on topic.
And there is nothing to suggest what the OP's gender is.

[jlb524]

GodWood wrote...
How is that a fix at all?
I said I didn't want every character to be bi, not I don't any bi romaces.

I don't know...when you bring up your poor friend and how it troubles her that a few asari hit on her Fem PC, it seems you are pushing to have this removed from the game.

GodWood wrote...

Stop trying to make it sound bad.
Lesbians/bisexuals are not that common, having every female be a hot bisexual stretches what I can believe.
And besides, theres 6 potential lesbian encounters, thats not too little.

The asari are supposed to be bisexual, and there's lots of them.  As most have said, most of those lesbian encounters are nothing.  I think there should be more f/f encounters with the asari but, oddly enough, most are portrayed as straight and with male aliens.

GodWood wrote...
I too hate the fact that women throw themselves at my male Shep(Tali and Liara)/are portrayed in a childish male fantasy way (Miranda).
The solution to that would be either yes, scrap them or better yet portray them in a less 'childish male fantasy' way.

But, the problem is that people act like f/f romances are inherintly flawed and can't be made 'better' and should go if there are too many of them, even if they are good, while m/f stuff gets a free pass, even if it's quite offensive stuff.  If so, you would go to the Miranda or Jack threads and decry those that wish for those romances to continue.

Modifié par jlb524, 21 décembre 2010 - 05:17 .

[HolyJellyfish]

@Godwood Yep. It does alter the perception of the character's universe.



That's what RPGs do. They give you your own character to alter their perceptions of whatever universe they are in.



If a character hits on me, I can slam it down. Every time. And I bet you can to. All to create a different perception of that universe.

[Sajuro]

I read this and get more sick of it then the Collector Base threads, I personally think that there should be M/M and F/F options in the game (May not take M/M but whatever). For people complaining about females hitting on their femshep, that's the kind of universe it is, there are women who like women, men who like men, and those who like both. If in your game Tali hits on you and you don't like it, just take the option to tell her to knock it off like I would take with Jacob if he started hitting on me, but I wouldn't butthurt in the forums about how bioware is so mean about making Jacob hit on me.

[HolyJellyfish]

jlb524 wrote...

Double standard.  All lesbian romances are inherently 'fan service' for straight guys and this is a problem with all f/f romances.

However, if there's a questionable m/f romance, not all m/f romances are called into question.

Yep.

[HolyJellyfish]

Sajuro wrote...

I read this and get more sick of it then the Collector Base threads, I personally think that there should be M/M and F/F options in the game (May not take M/M but whatever). For people complaining about females hitting on their femshep, that's the kind of universe it is, there are women who like women, men who like men, and those who like both. If in your game Tali hits on you and you don't like it, just take the option to tell her to knock it off like I would take with Jacob if he started hitting on me, but I wouldn't butthurt in the forums about how bioware is so mean about making Jacob hit on me.

Thank you.

Dragon Age forums are at least friendler and more open to the equal standards for all players regardless of gender and sexual orientation. I wish that way of thinking was carried on over to the ME universe.

[GodWood]

jlb524 wrote...

GodWood wrote...
How is that a fix at all?
I said I didn't want every character to be bi, not I don't any bi romaces.

I don't know...when you bring up your poor friend and how it troubles her that a few asari hit on her Fem PC, it seems you are pushing to have this removed from the game.

Can you at least try to see things from someone else's point of view?
She's hit on by female character's frequently,  as a matter of fact shes hit on by female characters more than male characters and she would like this to stop happening (or at least happen less) as it makes her feel like shes playing in a male fantasy.
It's not that hard to why she'd have an issue with it.

GodWood wrote...
Stop trying to make it sound bad.
Lesbians/bisexuals are not that common, having every female be a hot bisexual stretches what I can believe.
And besides, theres 6 potential lesbian encounters, thats not too little.

The asari are supposed to be bisexual, and there's lots of them.  As most have said, most of those lesbian encounters are nothing.

Those lesbian encounters are not nothing, they are lesbian encounters.
You're speaking as if you are deprived of f/f content which is simply not true. 

I think there should be more f/f encounters with the asari but, oddly enough, most are portrayed as straight and with male aliens.

Well thats not true.
Theres only 2 'malien' romances and yet there's 3 [sexual] lesbian encounters with asari, 4 if you include the inevitable Shiala fling.

GodWood wrote...
I too hate the fact that women throw themselves at my male Shep(Tali and Liara)/are portrayed in a childish male fantasy way (Miranda).
The solution to that would be either yes, scrap them or better yet portray them in a less 'childish male fantasy' way.

But, the problem is that people act like f/f romances are inherintly flawed and can't be made 'better' and should go if there are too many of them, even if they are good, while m/f stuff gets a free pass.

I don't know where you're pulling this from, as I've never said lesbian romances are flawed/can't be made better thus should be scrapped.

Modifié par GodWood, 21 décembre 2010 - 05:32 .

[GodWood]

HolyJellyfish wrote...

Sajuro wrote...
I read this and get more sick of it then the Collector Base threads, I personally think that there should be M/M and F/F options in the game (May not take M/M but whatever). For people complaining about females hitting on their femshep, that's the kind of universe it is, there are women who like women, men who like men, and those who like both. If in your game Tali hits on you and you don't like it, just take the option to tell her to knock it off like I would take with Jacob if he started hitting on me, but I wouldn't butthurt in the forums about how bioware is so mean about making Jacob hit on me.

Thank you.

Dragon Age forums are at least friendler and more open to the equal standards for all players regardless of gender and sexual orientation. I wish that way of thinking was carried on over to the ME universe.

Wow, I think you have completely misinterpreted most of what I've said.

I have no problem with the presence of homosexual relationships in the game.
My problem is when there's a frequent amount of bisexual characters in the game it starts to make the universe feel less believable.

Dragon Age handled it perfectly.

[HolyJellyfish]

GodWood wrote...

I don't know where you're pulling this from, as I've never said lesbian romances are flawed/can't be made better thus should be scrapped.

No, what you are saying is that you actively dislike having lesbian romances thrown at your Fem!Shep, but no one is complaining when the same women flirt with Male!Shep

Why not just ban all romances and flirtations under the same umbrella?

By any means, no one is ignorant that the entire writing staff of ME is male, and the Fem!Shep is penned and voiced after Male!Shep with a few alterations.

What we are asking for is something that would specifically affect Fem!Shep. Its fair game and optional.

[HolyJellyfish]

GodWood wrote...
Wow, I think you have completely misinterpreted most of what I've said.

I have no problem with the presence of homosexual relationships in the game.
My problem is when there's a frequent amount of bisexual characters in the game it starts to make the universe feel less believable.

Dragon Age handled it perfectly.

I'm not trying to fight you here. I can understand why you might feel defensive about your opinion, but its one that negatively impacts a lot of people's optional interests.

Perhaps a different platform that should be taken is not to lessen bisexual / lesbian encounters (which are infrequent in the greater scheme of the game), but to ask for more M/M options. Then the playing field would be equal and all parties satisfied.

[Sajuro]

GodWood wrote...

HolyJellyfish wrote...

Sajuro wrote...
I read this and get more sick of it then the Collector Base threads, I personally think that there should be M/M and F/F options in the game (May not take M/M but whatever). For people complaining about females hitting on their femshep, that's the kind of universe it is, there are women who like women, men who like men, and those who like both. If in your game Tali hits on you and you don't like it, just take the option to tell her to knock it off like I would take with Jacob if he started hitting on me, but I wouldn't butthurt in the forums about how bioware is so mean about making Jacob hit on me.

Thank you.

Dragon Age forums are at least friendler and more open to the equal standards for all players regardless of gender and sexual orientation. I wish that way of thinking was carried on over to the ME universe.

Wow, I think you have completely misinterpreted most of what I've said.

I have no problem with the presence of homosexual relationships in the game.
My problem is when there's a frequent amount of bisexual characters in the game it starts to make the universe feel less believable.

Dragon Age handled it perfectly.

Okay, enlighten me
How is the universe less believable if there are a lot of bisexuals?
Does that make Ancient Rome of Greece (where the men engaged in both ****** and hetero sexual acts, and probably the women to) less believable?
Has it crossed your mind that maybe Aliens don't have the strict concept of sexuality like we do and are more of the 'free love' type?
I think it makes the universe more realistic that not every alien is a moral guardian when it comes to sexuality and that not everyone is like humans, the volus for example never showed any interest in shepard, neither have the Hanar or the Elcor. It's only the aliens who share are humanoid shape (hence many of the same traits being desirable indications of strength or fertility) who don't merely want to tap Shep's ass, but go Krogan on it.
As for the Krogans wanting Shep's vertigo stick, it's because he/she killed a freaking thresher maw on foot, imagine how much ass that landed Wrex and Shep's a squishy little human.

[GodWood]

HolyJellyfish wrote...

GodWood wrote...
I don't know where you're pulling this from, as I've never said lesbian romances are flawed/can't be made better thus should be scrapped.

No, what you are saying is that you actively dislike having lesbian romances thrown at your Fem!Shep

-sigh-
No, my friend who is female and has no interest in lesbian relationships is sick of having lesbian romances thrown at her which is a perfectly valid complaint as it's not like it's something that happens once or twice, it happens frequently.
Honestly, I can't even remember why I brought her up.

but no one is complaining when the same women flirt with Male!Shep

Because it's not relevent to the current topic? but even so I personally get annoyed when too many female character's hit on with my PC.

HolyJellyfish wrote...

GodWood wrote...
Wow, I think you have completely misinterpreted most of what I've said.
I have no problem with the presence of homosexual relationships in the game.
My problem is when there's a frequent amount of bisexual characters in the game it starts to make the universe feel less believable.

Dragon Age handled it perfectly.

I'm not trying to fight you here. I can understand why you might feel defensive about your opinion, but its one that negatively impacts a lot of people's optional interests.

I think we should just drop it.
I think having too many bisexual romances damages the believability of the game's universe.
You see them as optional and thus shouldn't be a bother in the individual's game.
Agree to disagree?

Perhaps a different platform that should be taken is not to lessen bisexual / lesbian encounters (which are infrequent in the greater scheme of the game), but to ask for more M/M options. Then the playing field would be equal and all parties satisfied.

I do agree there should be a properly fleshed out M/M option for gay male Shepards.
However I do have a slight issue with adding any new LIs in ME3 as it will inevitably lessen the quality or the already established romances.
But thats a completely different topic for another thread/day.

[Mystranna Kelteel]

GodWood wrote...
No, my friend who is female and has no interest in lesbian relationships is sick of having lesbian romances thrown at her which is a perfectly valid complaint as it's not like it's something that happens once or twice, it happens frequently.

Liara says she has a crush on you, which you can shut down ASAP.
Shiala will touch your cheek if you kept her alive.
You have to pretend to be interested in Morinth for the sake of Samara's mission.

And that's it. Any other lesbian content is actively pursued by the player or it's non-existent.
And all three of the above situations are from a species who are all into women. So they might hit on you, just as any bisexual woman might hit on another woman. Tis part of life.

Modifié par Mystranna Kelteel, 21 décembre 2010 - 06:11 .

[Rekkampum]

MoogleNut wrote...

SmokePants wrote...

Given the incompatible protein chirality, oral sex is off the table for fear of ingestion. What's that leave? Scissoring? Does that even work? seems like they would start to chafe long before...

This exchange is over.

Aww bless, another man who thinks what goes on in straight porn is real

That's the problem. They confuse "sex" with sexuality.

[GodWood]

Mystranna Kelteel wrote...

GodWood wrote...
No, my friend who is female and has no interest in lesbian relationships is sick of having lesbian romances thrown at her which is a perfectly valid complaint as it's not like it's something that happens once or twice, it happens frequently.

Liara says she has a crush on you, which you can shut down ASAP.
Shiala will touch your cheek if you kept her alive.
You have to pretend to be interested in Morinth for the sake of Samara's mission.

And that's it. Any other lesbian content is actively pursued by the player or it's non-existent.
And all three of the above situations are from a species who are all into women. So they might hit on you, just as any bisexual woman might hit on another woman. Tis part of life.

From the previous page.

GodWood wrote...

HolyJellyfish wrote...

GodWood wrote...
What about people who play as Femshep and have no desire to have Tali ****** over them.
I have a female friend who is sick to death of having female characters throw themselves at her Shepard or having her Shepard act as if shes into women.

First there was Shaira's groping.
Then there was Liara's creepy I WANT YOU speech.
Then there was the dat ass Miranda scene.
Then there was Liara throwing herself at femshep again on Ilos.
Then there was the forced to be interested in Shiala's flirting.
Then there was Tali's "I only want to link suits with you" **** (I asked her today)
Then there was the seducing Morinth.
Then there was the sexual tension in LotSB.

Now she has nothing against lesbians it's just that having so many encounters where women are all over her Shepard make her feel like shes not in a believable sci-fi universe but rather a childish male fantasy.

The lines I bolded are all entirely optional. I play renegade, I've never had the Shiara issue and Liara never threw herself on me. In fact, I rarely saw any lesbian interest in my Shep specifically because I had the option to avoid it, with exception to Morinth and Tali's lines.

In fact, No one has to tackle these relationships. Isn't that part of the Optional Romance territory thing?

Actually every one you bolded is not optional (unless you completely avoid the characters)
Shaira gropes you no matter what.
Liara confesses her feelings for you no matter what.
Liara then throws her arms around you again on Ilos (you may see that as a greeting between friends but when it's some girl you never really liked who had the hots for you its weird)
If you're paragon and help Shiala, she flirts with your Shepard and no matter what your Shepard does a "Yeah baby" smile.
And you may not of sensed it but others do, theres still that feeling that Liara wants Shepard in LotSB even if you didn't romance her.