69 réponses à ce sujet

[fmsantos39]

I really don't understand why we can't crouch in ME2, crouch is always importante for games that involve bullets trying to hit you, when I played in insane difficulty I realized how much I miss this option so I hope BW read this and consider it added

[Gibb_Shepard]

I 100% agree. Crouch seems to be a given in a TPS game, so ME3 must have it.

[BattleRaptor]

have to back it.. crouch as extra accuracte(same as behind boxes in me2) and make it so your harder to hit while crouched... so that you DONT have to go behind boxes ALL the time.



Not saying you should beable to stand in the open agasint an army... but not having to always be behind cover like most classes in me2 would help with level design.. boxes/cover wouldnt have to be so darn forced.

[FREEGUNNER]

I think it's a balance issue concerning biotic attacks.



Like you could crouch behind a box with the M98 Widow just enough so you can see Harbingers head yet all of his biotic attacks hit the box.

[shumworld]

I personally didn't like crouch. The cover system was a lot better imo.

[PROKNIFER69]

both thumbsticks (on teh 360) bring up the minimap which i never use, why couldnt they have used one as the crouch button?

[AdmiralCheez]

It's not high on my list of things that need to return, especially since the accuracy mechanic was streamlined in a good way in ME2, but hey! Teabagging.

[Jebel Krong]

no point in having a separate crouch when you have a cover-system. where would you even use it? as soon as you are in the open the AI focuses fire on you anyway - crouching wouldn't negate that, it would just stop you moving out of the way. stupid and unnecessary.

[Captain_Obvious_au]

Definately need it back, which is why it's in my ME3 ideas blog.



Cover is great, and crouching certainly wouldn't eliminate the need for cover, but it would make you less vulnerable and more accurate outside of cover.

[Bogsnot1]

I agree. I miss crouch. I did a fair amount of side missions in ME1 all in crouch mode. Sneaking along, go around some cover, shove my shotgun up someone's coit and pull the trigger.

[Mole42]

Jebel Krong wrote...

no point in having a separate crouch when you have a cover-system. where would you even use it? as soon as you are in the open the AI focuses fire on you anyway - crouching wouldn't negate that, it would just stop you moving out of the way. stupid and unnecessary.

If you are like me and don't appreciate the strong suction that cover
generates in ME2, then you'd like a chance to crouch behind it, take
an action, and then sprint off - without having to brake off the
cover's suction first.

This is a major frustration for me - that, and accidentaly leaping
over the cover into enemy fire, resulting in my death. :-/

Modifié par Mole42, 21 décembre 2010 - 09:46 .

[Captain_Obvious_au]

Mole42 wrote...

This is a major frustration for me - that, and accidentaly leaping
over the cover into enemy fire, resulting in my death. :-/

Same here! Why they can't just have two different buttons for going into cover and leaping over cover, I don't know.

[Vena_86]

Walking is pretty useless in combat, the walk button should have been used for crouching (with drawn weapon).

Crouching is very important for high level play, as it allows you to keep your head down while moving from one cover to the next.
No crouching resulted in many frustrating deaths in my playthroughs, so yes, please (re)add what is a standard in shooters since forever.

[Vena_86]

Jebel Krong wrote...

no point in having a separate crouch when you have a cover-system. where would you even use it? as soon as you are in the open the AI focuses fire on you anyway - crouching wouldn't negate that, it would just stop you moving out of the way. stupid and unnecessary.

This is just typical...being against everything that is not 100% ME2 for no particular reason.
Do you play on easy mode or what? In fights you need to change cover on a regular basis and often there are objects that would block the enemies line of sight while changing cover, if you would be able to crouch. You know what is stupid? Running arround in combat situations as the biggest possible target. Soldiers keep their heads as low as possible in real wars for a good reason. And crouch being a standard in the genre also has good reasons, including games that have the exact same cover system!

Modifié par Vena_86, 21 décembre 2010 - 10:45 .

[Sable Rhapsody]

Vena_86 wrote...

Jebel Krong wrote...

no point in having a separate crouch when you have a cover-system. where would you even use it? as soon as you are in the open the AI focuses fire on you anyway - crouching wouldn't negate that, it would just stop you moving out of the way. stupid and unnecessary.

This is just typical...being against everything that is not 100% ME2 for no particular reason.
Do you play on easy mode or what? In fights you need to change cover on a regular basis and often there are objects that would block the enemies line of sight if you would be able to crouch. You know what is stupid? Running arround in combat situations as the biggest possible target. Soldiers keep their heads as low as possible in real wars for a good reason. And crouch being a standard in the genre also has good reasons, including games that have the exact same cover system!

Hey now.  Being snippy is unnecessary.

As I recall, the purpose of crouch in ME1 was twofold.  It got Shep behind lower cover so s/he got shot less, and it increased weapon accuracy.  But the thing is that neither of these things are issues in ME2.  In ME2, Shep automatically crouches when against low cover as opposed to when against walls.  And in ME2, shooting accuracy is based on where you point the damned reticule, not on stats, so crouching wouldn't give you any additional benefits there either.

There could be other mechanical uses for crouch, sure.  But the reasons why crouch existed in ME1 are no longer salient issues in ME2, and I'm pretty sure ME3's combat will more closely resemble ME2's.

Modifié par Sable Rhapsody, 21 décembre 2010 - 10:45 .

[Captain_Obvious_au]

Sable Rhapsody wrote...

in ME2, shooting accuracy is based on where you point the damned reticule, not on stats, so crouching wouldn't give you any additional benefits there either.

There could be other mechanical uses for crouch, sure.  But the reasons why crouch existed in ME1 are no longer salient issues in ME2, and I'm pretty sure ME3's combat will more closely resemble ME2's.

Not true. The only difference between aiming in ME1 and ME2 is that ME1 had a circle, ME2 has crosshairs. Accuracy is much the same - some weapons are accurate, some aren't, especially rifles like the Avenger. Bioware could easily add an accuracy modifier for Shep being crouched.

[Vena_86]

Sable Rhapsody wrote...

Vena_86 wrote...

Jebel Krong wrote...

no point in having a separate crouch when you have a cover-system. where would you even use it? as soon as you are in the open the AI focuses fire on you anyway - crouching wouldn't negate that, it would just stop you moving out of the way. stupid and unnecessary.

This is just typical...being against everything that is not 100% ME2 for no particular reason.
Do you play on easy mode or what? In fights you need to change cover on a regular basis and often there are objects that would block the enemies line of sight if you would be able to crouch. You know what is stupid? Running arround in combat situations as the biggest possible target. Soldiers keep their heads as low as possible in real wars for a good reason. And crouch being a standard in the genre also has good reasons, including games that have the exact same cover system!

Hey now.  Being snippy is unnecessary.

As I recall, the purpose of crouch in ME1 was twofold.  It got Shep behind lower cover so s/he got shot less, and it increased weapon accuracy.  But the thing is that neither of these things are issues in ME2.  In ME2, Shep automatically crouches when against low cover as opposed to when against walls.  And in ME2, shooting accuracy is based on where you point the damned reticule, not on stats, so crouching wouldn't give you any additional benefits there either.

There could be other mechanical uses for crouch, sure.  But the reasons why crouch existed in ME1 are no longer salient issues in ME2, and I'm pretty sure ME3's combat will more closely resemble ME2's.

It is about taking advantage of sight blocking objects while moving to cover. ME1 had very little use for crouch because the system was far less advanced and you would be in the open during fights much more.
This is no theory crafting here. This is simple experience. I died many times when trying to change cover (because a heavy mech or what ever came too close) because Shepard had to stand tall above all the objects on the ground that would have blocked the line of sight of the enemies if only he or she could have keept the freakin' head down.
What grinds my gears is this attitude: "Stupid and unecessary." Noone is forcing anyone to crouch, why can't the option be there for skilled players?

Modifié par Vena_86, 21 décembre 2010 - 11:00 .

[Sir Ulrich Von Lichenstien]

Vena_86 wrote...

Walking is pretty useless in combat, the walk button should have been used for crouching (with drawn weapon).

Crouching is very important for high level play, as it allows you to keep your head down while moving from one cover to the next.
No crouching resulted in many frustrating deaths in my playthroughs, so yes, please (re)add what is a standard in shooters since forever.

Yes because no one walks at all ever do they? They just run around all the time whether in combat, in a city, in a space station, on a platform that is very unstable with a big chasm underneath and any sudden movement could aaargghhhhh.... *shep falls to their doom as the platform collapses into the abyss because shep was stupidly running over a part of the platform that had been the linchpin in it staying stable and due to Shep running it dislodged* actually.. I've got to admit, that was one of the things I was hoping DID happen on a certain mission, which was why when I first played it, I WAS walking around the whole area. It was only when I decided to test if it was true that I became disappointed because it didn't utilise it.

Anyway I digressed from my point, removing walk is downright stupid. As someone else pointed out, there are other buttons they could use to add crouch. Unless it is due to some crazy game mechanic issue causing it, I don't see no reason why it isn't there, so if possible and with people wanting it am all for it just as long as it doesn't cause issues with other aspects of the game ie. making things bug/glitch out more. It definitly shouldn't replace 'cover' though. Because people like that too.

[Gibb_Shepard]

Vena_86 wrote...

Walking is pretty useless in combat, the walk button should have been used for crouching (with drawn weapon).

Crouching is very important for high level play, as it allows you to keep your head down while moving from one cover to the next.
No crouching resulted in many frustrating deaths in my playthroughs, so yes, please (re)add what is a standard in shooters since forever.

Removing walk would be one of the worst things to do for ME3.

[Vena_86]

I said during combat...several times. Sometimes I get the feeling people skip every second word...

[Sir Ulrich Von Lichenstien]

Meh... I like walking in combat nothing like waltzing through a room, slowly but surely blasting people left right and center

[ashwind]

It has everything to do with the pace and flow of the game. Crouching usually means slow movement speed - more prudent approach. In ME2, insanity at least, enemies will shoot you the moment the tiniest part of your body is expose hence making crouching not very useful imo. ME2 combat (maybe even ME3) is fast pace and relies heavily on mobility, you dash to cover instead of sneaking from one to the other. Also, I do not notice that line of sight is taken into account in ME2, enemies just attack your position - so crouching is simply partial cover with more movement?

I think it's a balance issue concerning biotic attacks.



Like you could crouch behind a box with the M98 Widow just enough so you can see Harbingers head yet all of his biotic attacks hit the box.

You cant really do that. Harbinger's singularity attack will get you even if in cover, relying on crouching is suicide because you lose mobility. Engineer can knock you out of cover as well. Enemies like Harbinger on higher difficulty never stop their biotic attacks, if your are caught crouching, you are almost certain to be dead already.



Now, lets say they do add crouching in ME3 and try to make crouching actually useful (crouching is totally not useful in ME2 especially higher difficulty due to the 100% accuracy of enemies), that would mean slowing down the pace of the game and it becomes just like some other more realistic shooter.

[Sable Rhapsody]

Vena_86 wrote...
It is about taking advantage of sight blocking objects while moving to cover. ME1 had very little use for crouch because the system was far less advanced and you would be in the open during fights much more.
This is no theory crafting here. This is simple experience. I died many times when trying to change cover (because a heavy mech or what ever came too close) because Shepard had to stand tall above all the objects on the ground that would have blocked the line of sight of the enemies if only he or she could have keept the freakin' head down.
What grinds my gears is this attitude: "Stupid and unecessary." Noone is forcing anyone to crouch, why can't the option be there for skilled players?

If I had to change cover quickly, I did it by pausing, thinking out my exact path of movement, then storming.  ME2 can sometimes lend itself to a more pause-and-think style, especially on Insanity when every second counts.

David Gaider's mentioned this on the DA forums, but I think it applies here too: trying to fix something by adding "an option" for a segment of players or a toggle is not always ideal.  Changing the AI's aiming, the control keys for popping in and out of cover, etc. are all valid methods of dealing with sight-blocking objects and Shep's ability to move safely to and from cove, and much more elegant ones than adding a crouch option.  And if the game does solve those issues in ME3, it does essentially preclude the use of a crouch button except just to have it there for the lulz.  I agree that the problems with line of sight and enemies shooting is there.  I just don't think a crouch button is the way to solve it.

[Armannen]

Maybe not ME3, but I bet they'll get it back for the multiplayer spin-off for sure 

[hong]

I don't miss crouching at all.