69 réponses à ce sujet

[HaggardPunk]

i say YES to crouch

[XyleJKH]

I concour... crouching is a staple

[Jebel Krong]

Vena_86 wrote...

Jebel Krong wrote...

no point in having a separate crouch when you have a cover-system. where would you even use it? as soon as you are in the open the AI focuses fire on you anyway - crouching wouldn't negate that, it would just stop you moving out of the way. stupid and unnecessary.

This is just typical...being against everything that is not 100% ME2 for no particular reason.
Do you play on easy mode or what? In fights you need to change cover on a regular basis and often there are objects that would block the enemies line of sight while changing cover, if you would be able to crouch. You know what is stupid? Running arround in combat situations as the biggest possible target. Soldiers keep their heads as low as possible in real wars for a good reason. And crouch being a standard in the genre also has good reasons, including games that have the exact same cover system!

er, that's not what i said and also: you change positions/take cover using the cover system, not cheat the AI by crouching then glitching round corners etc. and no: i generally play on hardcore at least. i get the feeling that the people that can't play well-refined cover-shooters are the sort that need the crutch of a crouch to cheat their way around higher difficulty levels. the only time it was even validly useful in ME1 was on UNCs, sniping.

Vena_86 wrote...

It is about taking advantage of sight blocking objects while moving to cover. ME1 had very little use for crouch because the system was far less advanced and you would be in the open during fights much more. 
This is no theory crafting here. This is simple experience. I died many times when trying to change cover (because a heavy mech or what ever came too close) because Shepard had to stand tall above all the objects on the ground that would have blocked the line of sight of the enemies if only he or she could have keept the freakin' head down. 
What grinds my gears is this attitude: "Stupid and unecessary." Noone is forcing anyone to crouch, why can't the option be there for skilled players?

crouching is not a mechanics used by "skilled" gamers of any sort - for a start it limits your mobility severely, which is usually enough to get you killed in reasonable combat situations on it's own. there is simply nowhere you would use it the way areas/combat are designed in ME2 that would be useful, unless you were just looking to hide and edge round the corner of cover to shoot against an enemy that can't shoot you back - and that is glitching, not playing properly. the cover mechanics are well-refined for movement, changing location, there is very little "stickiness" to it (though more than a pure shooter, like gears, granted - but that can be iterated away).

Modifié par Jebel Krong, 22 décembre 2010 - 09:06 .

[Captain_Obvious_au]

sinosleep wrote...

There's a world of difference between weapons having different levels of accuracy and having your accuracy entirely determined by how many stat points you had in your shotgun skill.

Very true, but completely irrelevant. Plus, ME1 was a combination of weapon accuracy + points into skill level.

Either way, crouching would give you a bonus modifier to your accuracy with any given weapon.

[Lumikki]

I don't really miss crouching, but as option I don't really see why it could harm anyone.

I mean both games you couched when situation "required" it. How ever, crouching to open places isn't really good, because hole point is that you don't fight in middle of battle field without cover. I ques it's question when it has tactical use.

Modifié par Lumikki, 22 décembre 2010 - 09:24 .

[BiancoAngelo7]

Whether you're for or against it, it really doesn't matter, because at the end of the day it's purely a strategic mistake from the development point of view.



The game code already allows for this.

Bioware could have given us the option of crouching.

Bioware CHOSE not to give us that option.



Whenever a company purposefully limits the options its consumers have when interacting with their product (whether its a game or an electric shaver) then the company's customer satisfaction will suffer.



Its already been proven through modding that crouching is already in the game, just that they chose not to activate it, so why limit the options available to your fans?



Decisions like these make no sense to me. Bioware needs to take a good long look at whoever is making the customer satisfaction / marketing analysis decisions, because glaring goofs like these would be avoided by an analyst fresh out of grad school, so what's their excuse?

[michael1983]

I missed the crouching option in the sense that we would be able to use it while hinding behind a wall or something.

[Skilled Seeker]

There is a mod that returns crouching to ME2 if you have the PC version. Personally I don't see its value.

Modifié par Skilled Seeker, 22 décembre 2010 - 10:18 .

[ModerateOsprey]

When I realised I couldn't crouch in ME2, I got quite a pang of disappointment, so would rather have it than not, particularly if the code is on there to do it! Am on the Xbox version, so no mods in ME2 for me or I would install that one in a jiffy.

[Vena_86]

Atmosfear3 wrote...

Crouching is absolutely useless when Shepard is already crouched in low cover. What you people want is to circumvent cover all together and abuse the line of sight. That is obviously not intended hence why they removed it in the first place.

All they need to do is to adopt the Gears of War cover system where when you are at the edge of your cover, you can tap direction+A or w/e your button is to quickly swap into new cover.

Vena_86 wrote...

Urazz wrote...

Vena_86 wrote...

Walking is pretty useless in combat, the walk button should have been used for crouching (with drawn weapon).

Crouching is very important for high level play, as it allows you to keep your head down while moving from one cover to the next.
No crouching resulted in many frustrating deaths in my playthroughs, so yes, please (re)add what is a standard in shooters since forever.

If I recall they said it was a balance issue.  And it doesn't do what you are saying in high level play.  You move slower when crouched so I don't see how it helps other than the abuse we were seeing with it or to be extra accurate in ME1.  ME2 got rid of the ME1 accuracy system so there really is no need for us to crouch while firing now.

You are in a situation like for example the collector trap where there are several chest high walls within different distance from you. Mr. Annoying (Harbinger) is about to slowly flank you, while several collectors fire at you. You need to change your position or else Harbinger will fry you, once he moved arround the cover. 

Option #1 without crouch:
leaving cover to change position to other cover, standing up, right into the firing line of the collectors, taking heavy damage
Option #2 with crouch:
leaving cover but staying crouched, collectors can not see you (or barely), you slowly move to the next cover position without taking any damage

Which option is the logic one?
Why is this so hard to understand?
If it is a "balance issue", then why don't thousands of other shooters not have this problem? How can there even be any concern for this OPTION which is already coded and animated, ready to go?

Its not like we have kinetic shields to absorb bullets for us when we are sprinting from cover to cover or anything 

Oh, I guess there is no point for taking cover then either because we have kinetic barriers that make us invincible?
I have yet to see a reasonable argument against this option.

[BiancoAngelo7]

^@Vena_86



The only reasonable argument against having this option you will ever get are multiple variations of defensive posturing that boils down to...



"because the devs did it"



As I said before, giving people the option to use a function in a game, where its already incorporated just makes sense. Purposefully deactivcating something as basic as crouching doesn't make any sense.



Which of these seems like the best solution....



a) Dont like to crouch? That's ok don't crouch!



You would like to crouch? WELL TOO BAD NO SOUP FOR YOU! >:|



Satire aside, I think you get my point.

[desonnac00]

Full endorsement.



I was so disappointed I couldn't t-bag enemies... ;(

I want to t-bag enemies

[Atmosfear3]

Vena_86 wrote...


Oh, I guess there is no point for taking cover then either because we have kinetic barriers that make us invincible?
I have yet to see a reasonable argument against this option.

Completely taken out of context. Did you miss the part where I said SPRINTING FROM COVER TO COVER?

Again for those that missed it the first time, BW has come out and said that players were abusing crouch by crouching behind low cover where they were still able to aim and shoot at enemies while enemies could not return fire.

In case that didn't settle the case for you, crouching in itself is absolutely pointless when you are already crouched behind low cover. What you are asking for is essentially the same thing as the reason why BW removed it in the first place: to circumvent enemy AI and avoid damage altogether while still being able to fight back. In other words, you guys just want the game easier than it already is.

[Normandy30]

There is no crouch because they imposed a cover system into ME2 which was not in ME1. Well it was in ME1 with the crouch option, however it worked so poorly they totally recreated the cover system to make it like GoW 2. Which is an awsome system. If there is nothing to crouch behind why do you need a crouch option? When you run into cover behind something it automatically crouches behind the cover for you if its a lower cover. So I am for the current combat mechanics they have now.

However I would like to see them tweek the amo system so that the codex actaully makes sence. ME 1 your weapon has virtually unlimited, in 2 you still have "unlimited amo" but you have thermal clips that help keep the gun cool. Beacuse it prevents the weapon from over heating so you have to wait lless by having the gun not over heat you just eject your thermal clip. Beautiful but if the weapons before could fire unlimited ammo just use the thermal clips to stop them from over heating... why does the weapon need to unusable? Simply drastically limit the ammount and speed of shots we can take before the weapon over heats and we need to wait like 10 seconds for it to cool down if we run out of thermal clips for us.

[CC-Tron]

ME2 didn't do a good job of copying GOW. One shouldn't have to wait until they get to low cover to crouch. If a person crouches some distance away from low cover they are still harder to hit. GOW had crouching while running. This served the same purpose of making the player a harder target to hit before getting to cover. There's also the lack of blind fire which forces the player to expose themselves.

[Tony Gunslinger]

desonnac00 wrote...

Full endorsement.

I was so disappointed I couldn't t-bag enemies... ;(
I want to t-bag enemies

I admit I've never had the priviledge of experiencing it myself in real life, but from what I've read, if you are doing the crouching, enemies are t-bagging you.

[hed777]

shumworld wrote...

I personally didn't like crouch. The cover system was a lot better imo.

Yeah, I much preferred the cover of ME2 to the [quite similar] crouch of the first game.

So, who knows, ME3 may improve on the whole routine and call it... i dunno... duck n' cover...?

[ScroguBlitzen]

As a sneaker sniper I definitely miss the feel of sneaking crouched into a room. Give us back crouch on the left thumbstick, and make the run button automatically stand us up.

[Praetor Knight]

One step further, I wanna go prone when I snipe and/or have the high ground in the battlefield.