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How many of you actually saved Wrex from dying in your first playthrough?


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#101
didymos1120

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Malanek999 wrote...

didymos1120 wrote...
Also, the fact is, Ashley shooting him, even in the case where you don't explicitly tell her to, is still the result of YOUR actions. It's entirely up to you whether or not she steps in.

How do you work this out? If you haven't done his armour mission and you haven't got enough persuasion points and you are not going to shoot him, Ashley does and you can't do anything about it


Well, you failing to invest in Charm/Intimidate (i.e. spending points elsewhere) or failing to do the sidequest (i.e. spending too little time talking to Wrex and/or ignoring his request) are still YOUR actions, are they not?  And by doing any of them, you can alter Ashley's behavior. QED: her behavior is ultimately under YOUR control, just as Sheps is.  The fact that you may not be aware of that is irrelevant.

ETA: for another example, Wrex shooting Fist without permission.  Don't want him to?  Then don't bring him with you.  Again: under your control.

Modifié par didymos1120, 21 décembre 2010 - 08:42 .


#102
Badpie

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Malanek999 wrote...

didymos1120 wrote...
Also, the fact is, Ashley shooting him, even in the case where you don't explicitly tell her to, is still the result of YOUR actions. It's entirely up to you whether or not she steps in.

How do you work this out? If you haven't done his armour mission and you haven't got enough persuasion points and you are not going to shoot him, Ashley does and you can't do anything about it


If you haven't gotten his armor, that's something YOU did.  If you fail miserably at talking him down to the point where he's about to shoot your ass (something else YOU did) Ash saves your stupid sorry butt.  And then she gets crap about it.  No gratitude, you people  Sheesh!

;)

But Wrex always lived in my games.  It's not a difficult thing. I mean who goes to Virmire that early that they don't have any charm or intimidate sway?

#103
Malanek

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didymos1120 wrote...

Malanek999 wrote...

didymos1120 wrote...
Also, the fact is, Ashley shooting him, even in the case where you don't explicitly tell her to, is still the result of YOUR actions. It's entirely up to you whether or not she steps in.

How do you work this out? If you haven't done his armour mission and you haven't got enough persuasion points and you are not going to shoot him, Ashley does and you can't do anything about it

Well, you failing to invest in Charm/Intimidate or doing the sidequest are still YOUR actions, are they not?  And by doing any of them, you can alter Ashley's behavior. QED: her behavior is ultimately under YOUR control, just as Sheps is.  The fact that you may not be aware of that fact is irrelevant.

You used the word entirely. And her behaviour is most certainly not under your control, you never tell her to kill him.

I'm afraid I don't buy the argument you are making. Not every action that a character takes, that is in some way influenced by your own actions, changes their character and personality. Sure Ashley is not a real person. She is a bunch of pixels, lines of code and dialogue from writers and an actor. But she is a character that we are discussing. It was her choice to shoot wrex rather than risk him endangering her commander and the mission.

And telling someone they should be metagaming by galavanting off on sidequests when you have a galaxy influencing time critical mission seems wrong to me. You only end up saving the citadel in the nick of time.

EDIT Badpie - same answer. Whether or not you are a smooth talker does not change or excuse the choices that Ashley may make. Also I never cast judgment on her for this. I don't believe her actions were unreasonable.

Modifié par Malanek999, 21 décembre 2010 - 08:53 .


#104
Freakaz0idx

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I've saved him in every playthrough ever, I didn't know he could die until i saw it on youtube. Wrex is the best damn character in the Mass effect universe. Then Grunt.

#105
jwalker

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didymos1120 wrote...

jwalker wrote...
Ashley was growing on me lately, but watching enjoying herself that much when she finished him off... ugh... Back to square one.


Again: Shep will behave exactly the same if you pick that option, and you can even make Shep handle the entire incident like a complete sociopath.  And yet, no one ever says that Shep sucks due to that...

Also, the fact is, Ashley shooting him, even in the case where you don't explicitly tell her to, is still the result of YOUR actions. It's entirely up to you whether or not she steps in.


My actions as a player.... I understand that. That's not my point.

In that specific scenario, there are four other squaddies there. Could be Kaidan, Garrus, Liara, Tali. Everybody has good reasons to protect Shepard

But is Ashley who does the shooting.
Ashley sees her Commander in a dangerous situation and she takes the shot. Ok, understandable.

But now Wrex is on the ground, wounded. No more immediate danger. What does she do ? She walks there and executes him. At that point, it's an execution. And she does it with pleasure IMO. She even allows herself to throw some sort  of "Hasta la vista, baby" line.
Can you picture Liara doing that ? Kaidan ? Tali ? Garrus maybe, he's a turian, he might enjoy killing Krogan.
But is Ashley who does that. What I mean is, is that OOC for her ? That's what bothers me.

#106
PG420

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I had no idea he could die. I tried desperately to talk him down and then Ashley put one in his back and more in his head when he was down. I was devestated to say the least.

#107
Lunatic LK47

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Saved him first time. Did the side mission.

#108
Aidoru Kami

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didymos1120 wrote...

Well, you failing to invest in Charm/Intimidate (i.e. spending points elsewhere) or failing to do the sidequest (i.e. spending too little time talking to Wrex and/or ignoring his request) are still YOUR actions, are they not?  And by doing any of them, you can alter Ashley's behavior. QED: her behavior is ultimately under YOUR control, just as Sheps is.  The fact that you may not be aware of that is irrelevant.

ETA: for another example, Wrex shooting Fist without permission.  Don't want him to?  Then don't bring him with you.  Again: under your control.

Being AWARE of it is COMPLETELY relevant. If you know how to avoid it, then yes, it IS your actions. If you in no way anticipate it, then how on earth is it completely under your control? I talked to Wrex a lot, and got his side quest. I was planning to do it (Along with the majority of the side quests) after the initial main quest planets, (Noveria, Feros, Liara's Dig Site) but Virmire popped up after I did Feros. So I decided to go ahead and do that one after completing Noveria. My charm was high enough to convince Lorik to get Anoleis fired, but not enough to talk Wrex down. I didn't anticipate NEEDING a high charm or intimidate for something as vital as the life of a squadmate. After all, I hadn't needed it for the majority of the game. I didn't request Ashley to kill Wrex. It's entirely based on my choices if I see it coming, but if I don't? Then there's nothing I can do about it.

Either way, all I did was load an earlier save and redo my level ups so that charm would be up higher.

#109
Ragnarok521

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He survived on my first playthrough. If I recall I used the charm option. I didn't find out about his family armor mission until later.

#110
Sursion

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Friggen Ashley killed him. I spent the entire mission crying.

#111
Cra5y Pineapple

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It happened that the first bland planet I landed the mako on was the planet for Wrex's personal mission. So I managed to save him on the first playthrough.

Gotta love coincidence.



As for how I reacted when I knew he could die...well...I already sort of did, considering the little option on the bottom right saying [shoot Wrex] which I thankfully didn't choose.

#112
catgirl789

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I saved him the first time using the Charm option. I had never even heard of Mass Effect until I grabbed it from the used game bin, so you can imagine my surprise when I read the description to the "Charismatic" achievement that popped up.

#113
Darknesshade13

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I killed Wrex and I was like.."WHAT THE EFF DID I JUST DO??? Gotta skip cutscenes so I can load the start of the mission."

#114
Heavensrun

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scorptatious wrote...

 I'm just wondering how many people on this forum have actually saved Wrex from dying their first time through Mass Effect. Whether it be through charming/intimidating him, or doing his sidequest. 

If you didn't save him, what was your reaction? If you did, what was your reaction when you first heard he could die?

For me, I kinda had that spoiled for me early on,<_< so I made sure to do that sidequest.


(raises hand)  Yo!

I was seriously spend-happy on my persuasion the first playthrough, though I'd also done his family armor quest.

#115
TexasToast712

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jwalker wrote...

didymos1120 wrote...

jwalker wrote...
Ashley was growing on me lately, but watching enjoying herself that much when she finished him off... ugh... Back to square one.


Again: Shep will behave exactly the same if you pick that option, and you can even make Shep handle the entire incident like a complete sociopath.  And yet, no one ever says that Shep sucks due to that...

Also, the fact is, Ashley shooting him, even in the case where you don't explicitly tell her to, is still the result of YOUR actions. It's entirely up to you whether or not she steps in.


My actions as a player.... I understand that. That's not my point.

In that specific scenario, there are four other squaddies there. Could be Kaidan, Garrus, Liara, Tali. Everybody has good reasons to protect Shepard

But is Ashley who does the shooting.
Ashley sees her Commander in a dangerous situation and she takes the shot. Ok, understandable.

But now Wrex is on the ground, wounded. No more immediate danger. What does she do ? She walks there and executes him. At that point, it's an execution. And she does it with pleasure IMO. She even allows herself to throw some sort  of "Hasta la vista, baby" line.
Can you picture Liara doing that ? Kaidan ? Tali ? Garrus maybe, he's a turian, he might enjoy killing Krogan.
But is Ashley who does that. What I mean is, is that OOC for her ? That's what bothers me.

Exactly, Ashley is racist, that is why I always sacrifice her on Virmire, because she is a bigoted b*tch.

#116
Notho

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Saved him. No question.

#117
didymos1120

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TexasToast712 wrote...

jwalker wrote...

didymos1120 wrote...

jwalker wrote...
Ashley was growing on me lately, but watching enjoying herself that much when she finished him off... ugh... Back to square one.


Again: Shep will behave exactly the same if you pick that option, and you can even make Shep handle the entire incident like a complete sociopath.  And yet, no one ever says that Shep sucks due to that...

Also, the fact is, Ashley shooting him, even in the case where you don't explicitly tell her to, is still the result of YOUR actions. It's entirely up to you whether or not she steps in.


My actions as a player.... I understand that. That's not my point.

In that specific scenario, there are four other squaddies there. Could be Kaidan, Garrus, Liara, Tali. Everybody has good reasons to protect Shepard

But is Ashley who does the shooting.
Ashley sees her Commander in a dangerous situation and she takes the shot. Ok, understandable.

But now Wrex is on the ground, wounded. No more immediate danger. What does she do ? She walks there and executes him. At that point, it's an execution. And she does it with pleasure IMO. She even allows herself to throw some sort  of "Hasta la vista, baby" line.
Can you picture Liara doing that ? Kaidan ? Tali ? Garrus maybe, he's a turian, he might enjoy killing Krogan.
But is Ashley who does that. What I mean is, is that OOC for her ? That's what bothers me.

Exactly, Ashley is racist, that is why I always sacrifice her on Virmire, because she is a bigoted b*tch.


So is Shepard, because he does the exact same thing when personally killing Wrex.  RenShep is potentially waaaaaay more racist than Ash in ME1 as well.  For instance, you can wholeheartedly endorse Terra Firma, but Ash hates those guys....for being too xenophobic and racist.

Modifié par didymos1120, 22 décembre 2010 - 03:20 .


#118
Count Viceroy

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Ashley shot Wrex once. Was a WTF moment for sure. Never done it since though. Wrex is my man.

Modifié par Count Viceroy, 22 décembre 2010 - 03:23 .


#119
Aidoru Kami

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didymos1120 wrote...

So is Shepard, because he does the exact same thing when personally killing Wrex.  RenShep is potentially waaaaaay more racist than Ash in ME1 as well.  For instance, you can wholeheartedly endorse Terra Firma, but Ash hates those guys....for being too xenophobic and racist.

I kind of doubt that the people who call Ash racist are the renegades. XD I couldn't play as a renegade for more than 20 minutes, and there were at least 3 lines citing about how much Shepard hates turians.

#120
Badpie

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jwalker wrote...

didymos1120 wrote...

jwalker wrote...
Ashley was growing on me lately, but watching enjoying herself that much when she finished him off... ugh... Back to square one.


Again: Shep will behave exactly the same if you pick that option, and you can even make Shep handle the entire incident like a complete sociopath.  And yet, no one ever says that Shep sucks due to that...

Also, the fact is, Ashley shooting him, even in the case where you don't explicitly tell her to, is still the result of YOUR actions. It's entirely up to you whether or not she steps in.


My actions as a player.... I understand that. That's not my point.

In that specific scenario, there are four other squaddies there. Could be Kaidan, Garrus, Liara, Tali. Everybody has good reasons to protect Shepard

But is Ashley who does the shooting.
Ashley sees her Commander in a dangerous situation and she takes the shot. Ok, understandable.

But now Wrex is on the ground, wounded. No more immediate danger. What does she do ? She walks there and executes him. At that point, it's an execution. And she does it with pleasure IMO. She even allows herself to throw some sort  of "Hasta la vista, baby" line.
Can you picture Liara doing that ? Kaidan ? Tali ? Garrus maybe, he's a turian, he might enjoy killing Krogan.
But is Ashley who does that. What I mean is, is that OOC for her ? That's what bothers me.


Well she was the one that Shepard told "be ready."  And I don't see it out of character for her to shoot him.  But you're right, I've always felt it was a big deviation from her character to execute him.

#121
jwalker

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Badpie wrote...

[...]


Well she was the one that Shepard told "be ready."  And I don't see it out of character for her to shoot him.  But you're right, I've always felt it was a big deviation from her character to execute him.


She shoots him even if Shepard doesn't tell her "be ready".
If you haven't done Wrex' quest or you don't have enough 'persuasion' points, Ashley shoots.

Like I said. While I don't approve, I totally understand the first shot. What bothers me is the cold blooded execution when Wrex is on the ground, wounded.

edit: removed quote pyramid

Modifié par jwalker, 22 décembre 2010 - 05:25 .


#122
CARL_DF90

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Uh, I know I did, in EVERY playthrough. There's just no point in killing him off, especially since he is one of the best, and if I might add, wittiest/funniest characters. Keeping him alive is the ONLY option. :)

#123
Guest_Trust_*

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First playthrough I saved him because I did his sidequest.

When I had my renegade playthrough, I nearly choked myself while eating when I saw how Shepard killed Wrex. I felt terrible but I found the scene "wow".

It was one of the few moments in ME1 that really make Shepard look tough and intimidating. It shows how ruthless Shepards are capable of protecting the galaxy.

Modifié par AwesomeEffect2, 22 décembre 2010 - 07:43 .


#124
lovgreno

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TexasToast712 wrote...
Exactly, Ashley is racist, that is why I always sacrifice her on Virmire, because she is a bigoted b*tch.

Ashley is sceptical about aliens but she still realise that humanity cannot stay isolated from the galaxy and therefore she supports peacefull and equal cooperation with the aliens. Thus she is not realy a racist. She killed Wrex to protect Shepard and the mission, not because he is not human.

And if you are going to shoot a krogan you better make sure he stays down for everyones safety.

Not that she has ever needed to do that in my games and she never will.

Modifié par lovgreno, 22 décembre 2010 - 07:52 .


#125
V-rex

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jwalker wrote...
Snip


As someone else said, if you are going to blame Ashley for the 'shooting Wrex repeatedly when he's down' stance, don't forget to label Shepard the same way. After all, not only does he have the potential to do the EXACT SAME THING but he also has the capacity to be a lot more brutal about it and even less respectful.

So as long as we are putting people into the camp of 'blamed for what might be occuring' then Shepard goes in there as well.

As it stands, the way I saw it... Wrex had been shot. He had fallen to his feet and was lying there gurgling, odds are, he was dying. Hence, he was finished off.
It's not like they are going to administer aid to someone who had come dangerously close to shooting the Commander and of whom definetly wouldn't be part of the team anymore. And it's not like he would just be left to painfully breath his last either, not when for all we know his spleen might be sticking out of his neckpipe.

And it's not like Ashley's going to be tearfully sobbing when it comes down to killing the guy who endangered the life of her commander/boyfriend. Also, she wasn't 'enjoying herself' in the sense that she was chuckling with glee while she shot him, she had her face furrowed in angry concentration. She didn't look like she was having fun, just looking concentrated while shooting. It's stupid to assume that her reason for distrusting alien foreign powers connects to the idea that she reaps sadistic pleasure out of killing non humans.
The kind of accusation a moron* would make really. Also if Wrex killed a human and quipped about it, or Garrus killed a Quarian and made a one liner about it, would that be sufficient evidence that they just really like killing humans and Quarians out of racial hate?
I doubt people would make that connection, so why Ashley?

Besides even if he wasn't wounded, what's more dangerous than a seriously angry Krogan? A recently wounded seriously angry Krogan. Ashley would have had to finish him off and make sure he doesn't get back up. If he was dying, he needed to be put out of his misery, if he was only wounded he needed to be put down before he got back up and started real problems.

Finally of course it would be Ashley. After Wrex, she's the best weapons specialist on the team, hence she would be the only one who really could take him down with a gun. Apart from Shepard him/herself of course.

That said, there is something ridiculously out of character about that whole scene, regardless of whether it was Shepard or Ashley. Because it's really trying to nail the point in so heavily that this is a renegade outcome that it makes the characters sound almost like cartoonish super villains.

Plus there's something really 'uncanny valley' about how Shepard just calmly watches (even nodding slightly I think) when Ashley shoots Wrex and after he's dead and there's nothing Shepard can do about it then the paragon/renegade dialogue actions pop up.
So if you do the paragon options and see Shepard suddenly react with a 'WHAT THE HELL WAS THAT' after contently watching the whole incident play out with no signs of visible emotion, it doesn't look like he actually cared that much.

Let it be clear, Ashley's reasons were logical from a military standpoint, it's not fair to blame Ashley but not Shepard for the whole 'shot many times' thing and overall it's a scene filled with innaccurate character portrayals that people then clumsily use as evidence of Ashley's 'racism' ignoring that later on she's happily volunteering to assist Kirrahe and the rest of the Salarian team.

I don't see it as 'the degree of harsh and dark evil monstrousness and lowness that Ashley can stoop' I see it as 'the degree of harsh and dark evil monstrousness and lowness that Bioware are prepared to make Ashley go out of character in order to advance pre concieved plot devices.'

*not calling you a moron personally.

EDIT: That said, never let a save game pass where Wrex dies on Virimire, he's too awesome to let die.

Modifié par V-rex, 22 décembre 2010 - 08:29 .