29 réponses à ce sujet

[HEATFANMAN]

 I am playing as a Sentinel on Hardcore. When I use heavy warp on shielded enemies it will take away all their shields and a small portion of their health. If warp can take down an enemies shield in one hit, is it really worth putting points into overload? I know it overheats weapons but I'd rather invest in something like warp ammo if warp can do the same damage against shields. 

[Bozorgmehr]

Dunno about Hardcore, but Warp won't work like this on Insanity - you'll need rank 4 Overload plus upgrades to fully strip (normal) enemies' shield.

Overload won't overheat weapons used against enemies with (part of their) shields left - overheating only kicks in when (Overload is) used against unprotected enemies.

[HEATFANMAN]

The majority of enemies shields for Hardcore seem to go down in one Warp, excep for the more powerful ones. I'm thinking about just upgrading to full warp ammo and maybe do cyro blast.

[AntiChri5]

Go for energy drain.

[turian councilor Knockout]

Huh, since when did warp work on shielded enemies? (i know it works vs Barriers but shields?).

Modifié par turian councilor Knockout, 21 décembre 2010 - 01:42 .

[AntiChri5]

All powers work on shielded enemies.



Just not very well.

[turian councilor Knockout]

AntiChri5 wrote...

All powers work on shielded enemies.

Just not very well.

Well, in my game warp doesn't execute vs shields, have it something to do with cast it directly or press tab to view all of powers and cast it that way.

[Ahglock]

turian councilor Knockout wrote...

AntiChri5 wrote...

All powers work on shielded enemies.

Just not very well.

Well, in my game warp doesn't execute vs shields, have it something to do with cast it directly or press tab to view all of powers and cast it that way.

It may be red highlighted but you can use it. 
All the red highlight means is it wont be as effective.  Warp is a straight damage power I think heavy warp does a base 200 damage so it hits shields for that+upgrades.  Vs armor it gets another 50% boost and that is where things like overload make the difference since they are designied to go against shields they wont be red highlighted and will have a boosted damage vs them.

[ScroguBlitzen]

HEATFANMAN wrote...

 I am playing as a Sentinel on Hardcore. When I use heavy warp on shielded enemies it will take away all their shields and a small portion of their health. If warp can take down an enemies shield in one hit, is it really worth putting points into overload? I know it overheats weapons but I'd rather invest in something like warp ammo if warp can do the same damage against shields. 

I started a thread on this a month ago or so.  YES, even on Insanity you can skip Overload and just take Heavy Warp.  While it doesn't go all the way through their shields, it does go 3/4 or more which leaves them a couple smg bullets away from totally stripped.

The fact that I'm on 360 and can only map 2 buttons also influences the decision to just drop Overload.  Overload only damages shields/synthetics and never carries damage over to health.  Warp damages everything.

One other note though, Overload DOES damage Barriers and even Armor on organics.  It doesn't do too much damage, but still worth using when available.

[JaegerBane]

Bozorgmehr wrote...

Dunno about Hardcore, but Warp won't work like this on Insanity - you'll need rank 4 Overload plus upgrades to fully strip (normal) enemies' shield.
Overload won't overheat weapons used against enemies with (part of their) shields left - overheating only kicks in when (Overload is) used against unprotected enemies.

I'd have to agree with this - while Heavy Warp manages to dish out the damage and is probably worth it against minor shielded enemies - like drones etc - against any enemy where the shields are strong enough for them to require a bit more than a clip of Locust fire then Warp doesn't really do enough damage to warrant dealing with its 6-sec cooldown.

[ScroguBlitzen]

JaegerBane wrote...

Bozorgmehr wrote...

Dunno about Hardcore, but Warp won't work like this on Insanity - you'll need rank 4 Overload plus upgrades to fully strip (normal) enemies' shield.
Overload won't overheat weapons used against enemies with (part of their) shields left - overheating only kicks in when (Overload is) used against unprotected enemies.

I'd have to agree with this - while Heavy Warp manages to dish out the damage and is probably worth it against minor shielded enemies - like drones etc - against any enemy where the shields are strong enough for them to require a bit more than a clip of Locust fire then Warp doesn't really do enough damage to warrant dealing with its 6-sec cooldown.

What else are you going to do for those 6 seconds?  Heavy Warp does the exact same damage to minor shielded enemies that it does to major shielded enemies.  If the damage is worth the time on one then it is worth the time on the other.  The major advantage of Warp is that you can always throw it out every 6 seconds (3ish with cooldowns) and it is guaranteed to always cause damage and stagger almost every enemy in the game.  You just get in a rhythm of always using it when it's available.  On 360 I just map Warp and Throw and go to town.

[Ahglock]

On a 360 if you don't like using the pause well I can sort of understand it, but on a PC with 8 hot keys um hells no.

[Bozorgmehr]

All defense stripping powers have 6 s (base) cooldown; they'll do ~200 points damage each (rank 4) - not much on Insanity. The Mattock fires 4 (x50 damage) shots much faster; GPS one-shots most defenses etc.

Defense stripping powers used against 'right' defenses do double damage. Tech/biotic upgrades will enable powers to insta-strip normal enemies - powerful ability on Insanity. I never use Shep's powers to strip defenses (not worth the cooldown); I rather use powers to control the field - most such powers have very short cooldowns and therefore are much more effective in combat. Squadmates' powers are best used to remove defenses, but they're only useful if they remove defenses completely.

[Locutus_of_BORG]

Warp works on shields, but I don't why you ever would use it, since as a sentinel you get overload, which does 2x dmg and is instant hit...



I wouldn't even do this on Veteran... I just don't see the appeal.

[ScroguBlitzen]

Locutus_of_BORG wrote...

Warp works on shields, but I don't why you ever would use it, since as a sentinel you get overload, which does 2x dmg and is instant hit...

I wouldn't even do this on Veteran... I just don't see the appeal.

You only get overload if you're willing to pay 10 points for it.  By skipping it you can max a passive bonus power which doesn't require a button mapping for constant use on the 360.  On the 360... you can map RB to Warp, LB to Throw, that means to use Overload or Cryo Blast you will have to bring up the radial menu (which some of us don't like to do).  I just find it more beneficial on most classes on 360 to max 2 active powers in addition to your class power and then just use passive bonus powers.

[JaegerBane]

ScroguBlitzen wrote...

JaegerBane wrote...

Bozorgmehr wrote...

Dunno about Hardcore, but Warp won't work like this on Insanity - you'll need rank 4 Overload plus upgrades to fully strip (normal) enemies' shield.
Overload won't overheat weapons used against enemies with (part of their) shields left - overheating only kicks in when (Overload is) used against unprotected enemies.

I'd have to agree with this - while Heavy Warp manages to dish out the damage and is probably worth it against minor shielded enemies - like drones etc - against any enemy where the shields are strong enough for them to require a bit more than a clip of Locust fire then Warp doesn't really do enough damage to warrant dealing with its 6-sec cooldown.

What else are you going to do for those 6 seconds?  Heavy Warp does the exact same damage to minor shielded enemies that it does to major shielded enemies.  If the damage is worth the time on one then it is worth the time on the other.

The difference is that 200 points of damage may wipe out a shield on a minor enemy and allow further tactics, while on a more heavily shielded opponent, you're still stuck with a portion of their shield and functionally in the same situation as before - only you're waiting for a cooldown.

Given both classes with access to Warp have abilities that are better choices against most shielded enemies (Singularity disabling and Overload which does twice the damage on the same cooldown) and both can take ED if needed, I'm not sure that the sheer fact alone that Warp does damage is enough to blanket-claim that it's always a good choice and you're unlikely to have anything else that works well to spend your cooldown.

[ScroguBlitzen]

JaegerBane wrote...

ScroguBlitzen wrote...

JaegerBane wrote...

Bozorgmehr wrote...

Dunno about Hardcore, but Warp won't work like this on Insanity - you'll need rank 4 Overload plus upgrades to fully strip (normal) enemies' shield.
Overload won't overheat weapons used against enemies with (part of their) shields left - overheating only kicks in when (Overload is) used against unprotected enemies.

I'd have to agree with this - while Heavy Warp manages to dish out the damage and is probably worth it against minor shielded enemies - like drones etc - against any enemy where the shields are strong enough for them to require a bit more than a clip of Locust fire then Warp doesn't really do enough damage to warrant dealing with its 6-sec cooldown.

What else are you going to do for those 6 seconds?  Heavy Warp does the exact same damage to minor shielded enemies that it does to major shielded enemies.  If the damage is worth the time on one then it is worth the time on the other.

The difference is that 200 points of damage may wipe out a shield on a minor enemy and allow further tactics, while on a more heavily shielded opponent, you're still stuck with a portion of their shield and functionally in the same situation as before - only you're waiting for a cooldown.

Given both classes with access to Warp have abilities that are better choices against most shielded enemies (Singularity disabling and Overload which does twice the damage on the same cooldown) and both can take ED if needed, I'm not sure that the sheer fact alone that Warp does damage is enough to blanket-claim that it's always a good choice and you're unlikely to have anything else that works well to spend your cooldown.

Never made any blanket-claims about anything.  You said Warp is worth it on minor shielded enemies but not on major shielded enemies.  The implication being that it wasn't worth the cooldown.  If you don't have Overload or ED, then Warp is always worth the cooldown for the damage it does.  Singularity will often already be in play somewhere else, and casting it again removes it from the first location.

A high ranked warp destroys normal mobs shields pretty effectively.  2 Area Reaves or Area Ininerates will destroy any group of normal mobs shields and damage their health as well.  On Geth missions just take Garrus + any other character with Overload and you are golden.

Vs the rare enemies with extremely high shields (Geth Primes, YMIR, Geth Colossus), give them a few squeezes of the Arc-Projector and their shields are gone.  If you are really relying on Overload to kill them, keep in mind it takes about  10 fully upgraded Heavy Overloads to strip shields on an Insanity YMIR mech.

YMMV, but for 360 users who have limited skills to map and may like playing without pausing, Overload is an easy choice to skip.

[Ahglock]

ScroguBlitzen wrote...


Never made any blanket-claims about anything.  You said Warp is worth it on minor shielded enemies but not on major shielded enemies.  The implication being that it wasn't worth the cooldown.  If you don't have Overload or ED, then Warp is always worth the cooldown for the damage it does.  Singularity will often already be in play somewhere else, and casting it again removes it from the first location.

A high ranked warp destroys normal mobs shields pretty effectively.  2 Area Reaves or Area Ininerates will destroy any group of normal mobs shields and damage their health as well.  On Geth missions just take Garrus + any other character with Overload and you are golden.

Vs the rare enemies with extremely high shields (Geth Primes, YMIR, Geth Colossus), give them a few squeezes of the Arc-Projector and their shields are gone.  If you are really relying on Overload to kill them, keep in mind it takes about  10 fully upgraded Heavy Overloads to strip shields on an Insanity YMIR mech.

YMMV, but for 360 users who have limited skills to map and may like playing without pausing, Overload is an easy choice to skip.

Normally I'd totally disagre with you on this, but I don't suffer the 360 lack of button maping curse.  For us PC types though that cooldown means you can't throw singularity as an adept which is more effective than any warp you will throw and means tech armor is out from cooldown as a sentinel which is such an awesome oh **** button I wont be  using warp unless it is for an explosion or finishing someone off.  Sure singularity might be in play but the issue is you don't know what is going to happen in those X seconds so you better be sure that it is an effective attack when you use it.  I am not going to waste warp when a couple bursts from my SMG would have done the same or more and lose the oportunity cost of a power that I might need badly.  End of the day warp is just damage and not even great damage your guns will most likely do more. If it isn't an explosion which is damage+crowd control it isn;t worth it IMO. 

[Tony Gunslinger]

For my Sentinel, I ended up ditching Overload for the reasons Blitzen did it. It's not because Warp is a substitute for Overload, but as a console player, the most useful 3-power combo would be TA/Warp/Throw. Sure, I could cast Overload while pausing, I can also constantly remap my buttons for each mission, but no matter what I do, there is always going to be 1 fully evolved power that I can't use in real time (whether it's Throw, Warp, or Overload). After screwing around with that for most of my playthrough, I got fed up and got rid of the power I felt was the more specialized, and subsitituted it with an ammo. With Warp, I can stagger common goons and take out some of their shields, it's effective against most tougher enemies who happen to be either armored and/or with barriers, and I can set up explosions. I know I'm using Warp the "wrong way", but it works 90% of the time.

[lazuli]

Overload has the area of effect thing going for it as well, though. Warp can't AoE without a combo.

[JaegerBane]

ScroguBlitzen wrote...

Never made any blanket-claims about anything.  You said Warp is worth it on minor shielded enemies but not on major shielded enemies.  The implication being that it wasn't worth the cooldown.  If you don't have Overload or ED, then Warp is always worth the cooldown for the damage it does.  Singularity will often already be in play somewhere else, and casting it again removes it from the first location.

This is where I'm not sure I understand your argument. On one hand you claim you're not making any blanket claims and a few sentances later you claim it's always worth the cooldown down to the fact it does damage, with the apparent implication that whatever else you have in your arsenal, including shotguns and SMGs, are not even worth bothering with and one should immediately resort to using Warp.

The assumption that Singularity is in play 'somewhere else' is effectively meaningless - it may, or it may not be, but for someone who's already claiming they're not making blanket assumptions, it seems to be a little strange to simply assume it's already needed somewhere else - particularly given it's ability to function through defences. Fixing someone in place with a singularity and drilling their head with a clip of Locust ammo does far more damage to shields, puts less pressure on your cooldown than a cast of warp and sets up a potential explosion, so I can't really see your logic here.

Vs the rare enemies with extremely high shields (Geth Primes, YMIR, Geth Colossus), give them a few squeezes of the Arc-Projector and their shields are gone.  If you are really relying on Overload to kill them, keep in mind it takes about  10 fully upgraded Heavy Overloads to strip shields on an Insanity YMIR mech.

It's definitely true that the Arc Projector is the last word in anti-shield attacks... but I'm not really sure why the fact the Arc Projector destroys shields is a reason to use Warp over Overload against shields. I don't really understand why it's relevant.

Modifié par JaegerBane, 23 décembre 2010 - 05:09 .

[ScroguBlitzen]

@Jaeger- Let me explain clearly what I mean by "it's always worth it to use the cooldown". I don't mean this to say that Warp is the best power in the game and everyone should always use that instead of something else. I don't intend it to mean people shouldn't shoot someone, they should just warp them to death either. Not sure how you could reasonably infer either of these things.



I mean that when your power cooldown is available, if you don't have a better power to use (like Singularity, because it's already active somewhere) then you are better off using Warp. It's worth using whenever the cooldown is available. Now some will say that you should preserve your cooldown in case you need it for a power to bail you out of a problem. In some situations this may be true, but in general you are better off using a power whenever it's available.

On the 360, the problem with powers that are only situationally useful (like overload) is that you aren't using them all the time and so you end up even forgetting to use them when they actually would be useful. Powers like Warp,Reave,Incinerate always do good damage and can be used against ANY target so you can just get into the flow of using them all the time. Using them to shorten your reloading animation is a perfect time to use them. Some classes have uber powers that supersede others, such as Sentinel's armor, Vanguard's charge etc. If these classes are already using powers when available then of course they don't need to stop that and throw a damaging power.

[Praetor Knight]

ScroguBlitzen wrote...

On the 360, the problem with powers that are only situationally useful (like overload) is that you aren't using them all the time and so you end up even forgetting to use them when they actually would be useful. Powers like Warp,Reave,Incinerate always do good damage and can be used against ANY target so you can just get into the flow of using them all the time. Using them to shorten your reloading animation is a perfect time to use them. Some classes have uber powers that supersede others, such as Sentinel's armor, Vanguard's charge etc. If these classes are already using powers when available then of course they don't need to stop that and throw a damaging power.

I agree.

I try to do the same on 360, I try to keep the flow of battle up as best I can without bringing up the Power Wheel so often. It's probably why I've stuck with the Soldier class more then the other classes, but Vanguard and Sentinel are fun when you get a good tempo going.

[Omega-202]

I always use damaging powers on ANY defense if I know that there is no other use for the cooldown. That includes Area Reave on shielded enemies, Garrus's Overload on armored enemies and Incineration Blast on anything I can use it against.

If the cooldown is just going to sit there anyway, might as well use it.

Heck, Liara's Warp makes the fight against the Shadow Broker easier because, even through shields, it still staggers him and does some minor damage.

[ScroguBlitzen]

@Omega- Yep. I didn't even realize till recently that Overload does damage against armor and barriers. EVERY power does at least some damage to EVERY defense. The ones that also damage health are the best though: Warp/Reave/Incinerate.