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Warp Vs. Shields


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#26
Omega-202

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ScroguBlitzen wrote...

@Omega- Yep. I didn't even realize till recently that Overload does damage against armor and barriers. EVERY power does at least some damage to EVERY defense. The ones that also damage health are the best though: Warp/Reave/Incinerate.


Beggars can't be choosers.  I'll use squad Overload/E Drain if I feel its going to help, even if there would be bleed-over with a different power (which Garrus and Tali don't really have).  

I actually watched a friend on his Sentinel do the "Rescue the injured Quarian" mission with Tali and Mordin (he roleplays and thought they fit the theme of the mission best).  Instead of doing what I would normally do and Incineration Blast the varren with Mordin to strip their armor, he used Area Overload + Area Energy Drain -> Mordin's Cryo Blast to incapacitate a group of incoming varren.  

Not the best strategy, but the two electric attacks did strip the armor and left them open to the Cryo.  

#27
JaegerBane

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ScroguBlitzen wrote...

@Jaeger- Let me explain clearly what I mean by "it's always worth it to use the cooldown". I don't mean this to say that Warp is the best power in the game and everyone should always use that instead of something else. I don't intend it to mean people shouldn't shoot someone, they should just warp them to death either. Not sure how you could reasonably infer either of these things.


Scrogu, I'm tied by what you're writing. If you say 'what else are you going to do for those 6 seconds' and 'it's always worth the cooldown' then you can't realistically be surprised if someone gets the idea you're arguing that this power pulls ahead of others.

I mean that when your power cooldown is available, if you don't have a better power to use (like Singularity, because it's already active somewhere) then you are better off using Warp. It's worth using whenever the cooldown is available. Now some will say that you should preserve your cooldown in case you need it for a power to bail you out of a problem. In some situations this may be true, but in general you are better off using a power whenever it's available.



I agree with the idea that in general, it's best to use a power than not - I just don't think you've made the case that using Warp is always the best option in such situations (or even the majority). Bonus powers such as Stasis and Barrier are very much situation agnostic and freely available to any class, and hence I'm not sure what you're gaining by prioritising Warp over them. You've repeatedly asserted that the fact alone that Warp does damage makes it superior - this is something that, given Mass Effect 2's combat system, I can't really take seriously. Why is using Warp on shields a better option than stripping them with an SMG, Pulling the target and Warp-exploding them? Why is using Warp on a shielded boss a better option than Freezing him in stasis and wiping out his cronies? Why is warping a blue suns merc a better option than shredding shields and punting him off the cliff he's standing on?

My point is that excluding weapons from the equation renders the argument of Warp vs Shields purely theoretical and of little practical use, as you'll always have something to use during cooldown, and there are other powers that function in tandem with your weapons far more effectively than Warp. For the 6-sec cooldown to be genuinely worth it it's gotta be improving your situation, and simply hurling a single-target warp at an enemy with enough shields to absorb it is not really going to achieve the improvement, as you'll still have the same problem to deal with while the cooldown is running. 

On the 360, the problem with powers that are only situationally useful (like overload) is that you aren't using them all the time and so you end up even forgetting to use them when they actually would be useful. Powers like Warp,Reave,Incinerate always do good damage and can be used against ANY target so you can just get into the flow of using them all the time. Using them to shorten your reloading animation is a perfect time to use them. Some classes have uber powers that supersede others, such as Sentinel's armor, Vanguard's charge etc. If these classes are already using powers when available then of course they don't need to stop that and throw a damaging power.


Good point. I would point out, however, that this is a problem that only affects 360 users, so I'm not sure it's relevant to thread topic.

Modifié par JaegerBane, 24 décembre 2010 - 09:07 .


#28
ScroguBlitzen

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@jaeger- you clearly don't want to understand my actual argument and I'm tired of correcting your misrepresentations. 360 issues are relevant to about 75% of all ME2 players.

#29
Darkstar Aurora

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Even with only one rank in the skill, Overload will inflict more damage (120 x2 = 240) to enemy shields than a rank 4 Heavy Warp (200).  It also will have a 1.3 meter radius burst, and it can be used to instantly detonate explosive containers and objects with a much greater effect.  At level 30, Commander Shepard will have 51 squad points, thus you can still max out your primary skills and afford to spend 1 point on a shield-defeating power.

They only way Warp would inflict more damage in this example is if you are upgrading biotic damage before tech damage, or doing so at an uneven rate.  Since you receive two Multicore Amplifier (+10% tech dmg) upgrades in the first act of the game but do not receive your first Hyper Amp (+10% biotic dmg) upgrade until Horizon, then it would seem that scenario is unlikely.

On a side note, with regard to using alternate powers against defenses:  Incinerate deals more damage to Shields than Warp since it is a tech power (x 1.5 damage), so that may prove helpful to any Engineers/Inflitrators who want to focus on a specific set of skills as suggested, though in this case it would not help the author of the original post.

Modifié par Darkstar Aurora, 27 décembre 2010 - 03:12 .


#30
JaegerBane

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ScroguBlitzen wrote...

@jaeger- you clearly don't want to understand my actual argument and I'm tired of correcting your misrepresentations. 360 issues are relevant to about 75% of all ME2 players.


*sigh*

I was just discussing the point you made. If you can't or won't answer my questions then fine, your choice, but let's not start bashing off accusations as an excuse, eh?

Modifié par JaegerBane, 27 décembre 2010 - 02:15 .