470 réponses à ce sujet

[Leonia]

I suspect they go with the name rogue because it is so iconic and people have a general idea of what a rogue is based on other games. It might not be the best word they could use but it's easily recognisable.

At a glance you can say "Ok, warriors soak up damage while protecting the party and do a bit of dps, rogues are the heavy dps and utility class, mage is nuker/healer/crowd control"

So it's easy to tell the difference between the three, regardless of what names they have ascribed to them.

Naming the classes as: Tank, DPS, Healer would have been kind of boring so they had to go with something.

Modifié par leonia42, 23 décembre 2010 - 03:50 .

[Ziggeh]

Plus, there's certainly precedent within other rpg's entirely in line the usage here.

[AlanC9]

Anyone here have MMORPG experience? When they say "rogue," what do they mean?

[Leonia]

AlanC9 wrote...

Anyone here have MMORPG experience? When they say "rogue," what do they mean?

Usually it means someone who uses stealth attacks, probably has to be behind their target to get in critical attacks, they might be used to disarm traps or use poisons. Generally a rogue gives the team an edge in the beginning of a fight because they can sneak around and choose when to engage. They usually use daggers and bows. Often rogues help debuff enemies as well. They're kind of the "scout" class, surveying the field of battle before an engagement. They also tend to have bonuses or skills required to unlock loot chests or similar.

Modifié par leonia42, 23 décembre 2010 - 04:25 .

[Ziggeh]

AlanC9 wrote...

Anyone here have MMORPG experience? When they say "rogue," what do they mean?

Single target melee dps.

I farmed Aged Core Leather Gloves and laughed at those in full bloodfang.

[TMZuk]

AlanC9 wrote...

TMZuk wrote...
In DA:O, at least, it was possible to elvolve a rogue into a decent melee fighter, while in DA2, apparantly, they are either ninjas or archers. Some people seems to find that cool, I find it deplorable. 

Ninjas aren't "decent melee fighters"? What's your definition of "decent melee fighter"?

Sorry, went to bed.

Ninjas are assassins, spies and infiltrators. In reality they were probably decent melee fighters, or more, able to trade blows with an opponent. After all, most assassins are skilled with weapons. But in fantasy-games, comic-books, and bad movies from the seventies and eighties, they are super-sneaky, flippy, rolly OTT types... as rogues in DA2.

Wether you like that is a matter of personal taste; I don't.

[Leonia]

Ziggeh wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

Anyone here have MMORPG experience? When they say "rogue," what do they mean?

Single target melee dps.

I farmed Aged Core Leather Gloves and laughed at those in full bloodfang.

Sure, give him the short version.

Though many rogues can also do ranged attacks, they generally excel at melee.

Modifié par leonia42, 23 décembre 2010 - 04:43 .

[soteria]

AlanC9 wrote...

Anyone here have MMORPG experience? When they say "rogue," what do they mean?

What Ziggeh said.  Melee DPS that uses dexterity or agility as a primary stat.  The main difference between a rogue and a warrior is that the rogue is more about burst damage and high crits on demand while the warrior is more about sustained damage and handling multiple enemies.  Rogues maximize damage by being sneaky and avoiding attention whereas warriors maximize their damage by being awesome at fighting.  Oh yeah, and rogues probably get some sort of stealth capability.

Edit:  Also, in WoW, at least, even though the Rogue has historically been the superior DPS, the warrior is the rock to the rogue's scissors in PvP.  Given similar gear and skill, the warrior should almost always win 1v1.  Rogue kills mage, mage kills warrior, warrior kills rogue.... despite dev effort to break that cycle, that's how PvP in WoW worked for as long as I played.

Modifié par soteria, 23 décembre 2010 - 04:52 .

[AlanC9]

TMZuk wrote...
Sorry, went to bed.

Ninjas are assassins, spies and infiltrators. In reality they were probably decent melee fighters, or more, able to trade blows with an opponent. After all, most assassins are skilled with weapons. But in fantasy-games, comic-books, and bad movies from the seventies and eighties, they are super-sneaky, flippy, rolly OTT types... as rogues in DA2.

Wether you like that is a matter of personal taste; I don't.

Thanks for the answer. But a super-sneaky, flippy, rolly OTT rogue can  be a decent melee combatant too. Just not the kind you like. A DA2 rogue will be able to trade blows acccording to what I've seen. This is pretty much what Aermas is arguing against, isn't it?

I don't want to sound like I'm defending the DA2 animations. I'm almost completely insensitive to these -- for instance, I liked NWN2 because its minimal animations didn't get in the way of me seeing what was going on. So I leave debate on animations to people who care about animations.

Edit: So, DA2 is completely within the MMORPG usage of rogue, isn't it?

Modifié par AlanC9, 23 décembre 2010 - 05:21 .

[Blackout62]

Thread got me thinking, so I'm going to describe the traditional classes in the best way I can think of: by comparing them to the cast of Burn Notice.

Sam Axe is the warrior, he's specialized in brute force combat and keeps multiple targets occupied.
Michael Westen is the rogue since he weakens a single target and takes them out.
And Fiona is a mage since when she takes out a target she at range and theres an explosion.

It makes sense to me.

Modifié par Blackout62, 23 décembre 2010 - 05:30 .

[AlanC9]

I knew something worthwhile would be posted if I just kept reading the thread.

[Shadedclan]

A rogue basically has an assortment of skills which can be essential in a fight and they move faster, fight behind enemy lines and uses the skills to hinder the enemy and/or help the player.



A warrior is the one who tanks and can do massive damage with his sword. That's basically it.

[Piecake]

AlanC9 wrote...

I knew something worthwhile would be posted if I just kept reading the thread.

My book recommendation is worthwhile too!  Its quite good, I swear

[Doyle41]

I think that Dragon Age: Origins did a good job with the classes. I think if they would restrict trap disarming, and lockpicks to the rogue as well as the specialization skills, there would have been enough to differentiate the classes. Throw in different animations, ie backflips and dagger embedded boot jump kicks (exaggeration), it should have remained the same. I prefer the warrior class. As of now, I have no reason to play warrior. Rogue or mage seem the obvious 2 choices.



If a warrior could dual wield or use bows/ crossbows it would be a different story. I would have understood if you wore massive armor that dual wielding or bow use would be restricted from being used. But, if my warrior wore light armor either of those choices should be viable weapon choices.



Warrior class almost should be eliminated from Dragon Age 2 and just given to party members instead.

[Aermas]

Doyle41 wrote...

I think that Dragon Age: Origins did a good job with the classes. I think if they would restrict trap disarming, and lockpicks to the rogue as well as the specialization skills, there would have been enough to differentiate the classes. Throw in different animations, ie backflips and dagger embedded boot jump kicks (exaggeration), it should have remained the same. I prefer the warrior class. As of now, I have no reason to play warrior. Rogue or mage seem the obvious 2 choices.

If a warrior could dual wield or use bows/ crossbows it would be a different story. I would have understood if you wore massive armor that dual wielding or bow use would be restricted from being used. But, if my warrior wore light armor either of those choices should be viable weapon choices.

Warrior class almost should be eliminated from Dragon Age 2 and just given to party members instead.

This is the way I feel, warriors get no love, people adhere to the trinity & tell the warrior to shut up & tank, is appalling

[Piecake]

Aermas wrote...

This is the way I feel, warriors get no love, people adhere to the trinity & tell the warrior to shut up & tank, is appalling

Keeping the warrior man down, the Dragon age 2 way

[soteria]

What makes it even funnier is that they know next to nothing about how rogues and warriors will actually play and how effective each class will be in a given role. For all we know warriors might be better than rogues in every important aspect.

[Aermas]

soteria wrote...

What makes it even funnier is that they know next to nothing about how rogues and warriors will actually play and how effective each class will be in a given role. For all we know warriors might be better than rogues in every important aspect.

Except for gameplay videos, lists of class abilities, the names of specializations, the announcement of weapon trees, the word from devs & reviewers & all that.

[Ziggeh]

Doyle41 wrote...

Warrior class almost should be eliminated from Dragon Age 2 and just given to party members instead.

Man, thanks for that. I came over all nostalgic for the blizzard boards.

WHERES THE LOVE BLUE, WHERES THE LOVE?

[Piecake]

Ziggeh wrote...

Doyle41 wrote...

Warrior class almost should be eliminated from Dragon Age 2 and just given to party members instead.

Man, thanks for that. I came over all nostalgic for the blizzard boards.

WHERES THE LOVE BLUE, WHERES THE LOVE?

Blue?

[soteria]

Except for gameplay videos, lists of class abilities, the names of specializations, the announcement of weapon trees, the word from devs & reviewers & all that.

None of which tells us what you're claiming it does. Most of what you listed as what we know is no more than a name with no actual knowledge of how the thing will work relative to everything else. The only real gameplay video we got was with a PC rogue, giving you no warrior to compare to. As for the word of devs and reviewers, I don't remember seeing anything remotely like "rogues are awesome and warriors aren't worth playing."

[Ziggeh]

Piecake wrote...
Blue?

Warcraft board slang for developers, they post in blue text. People would request "BLEU PLX" when after a response.

[Piecake]

Ziggeh wrote...

Piecake wrote...
Blue?

Warcraft board slang for developers, they post in blue text. People would request "BLEU PLX" when after a response.

Ah, that would be annoying.

[errant_knight]

I think there's a whole lot of overstatement going on here. You don't have to play your warrior as a tank, I never do. It's not ruined because you can't duel wield when rogues can. Never did that either. Not a huge fan. It's not even ruined because you can't use a bow. Now that I regret. There were targets that it made a lot of sense to soften up from a distance. But it's a minor disappointment, not a class-breaking disaster. I'm a dubious about the area effects, but if I don't like them, I won't use them. I still have my sword, I still have my shield, and I still have a good set of armor. Nothing wrong there.

[PrinceOfFallout13]

i never tanked with my warrior and warrior is my favorite class from origins