141 réponses à ce sujet

[GodWood]

Slayer299 wrote...

GodWood wrote...

Slayer299 wrote...
Than what is the point of playing the game then and who'd want to play it again after that? 

Again, the journey.

That definitely wouldn't work for me. Seriously, why would i want to play for the 'journey' (over 100 hours over all 3) just so I can lose. That seems pretty pointless and ME3 would hit the garbage can as soon as I found that out, I'd keep 1 and 2 though.

Halo Reach did the same thing and yet that was an enjoyable game.
And if you want to take a more philosphical approach life is the same.
No matter what you do you die, yet this doesn't stop you from being able to enjoy it.

I honestly don't see why it matters though. 
Everyone lives ending.
Everyone dies ending.
The series is over regardless and you're never going to see your Shepard again.


(is not supporting only having the one ending)

Modifié par GodWood, 22 décembre 2010 - 05:17 .

[Lord Nicholai]

GodWood wrote...
Halo Reach did the same thing and yet that was an enjoyable game.

Halo
Reach is one game... and it's a prequel, you know the outcome already. You don't spend hours in 2 previous games making choices with the hope that you can win, only for it to turn out that you have no chance at all.
You don't lose at the end of the main Halo trilogy, and if you did it would suck.

[Slayer299]

Last Vizard wrote...

Oh and i don't understand all the anti-Cerberus comments i see everywhere, they spent alot of money to bring him back so i gave them the base... Cerberus is our only hope...... so much to say, but i'll just say one last thing, humans don't have that many Dreadnaughts (or whatever they are) but we have alot of Carriers (and we know from world War 2 that they are they super weapons of naval combat...(okay, the fighter/bombers that they carry are but you know what i mean.

I have a question for you here;
1 - How is Cerberus the galaxy's *only* hope? Granted, at the time of ME2 they are the ones helping you with the Collectors, but they aren't a galaxy spanning group with superweapons and ships at their beck and call. And why would't you need the Asari, Turians, Salarians, Krogan and/or even Batarians to fight the Reapers?

2 - Carriers are good and were the superweapons of WW2, but they're also really damned fragile too. And we've seen the Reapers have their own fighters so that isn't a sole advantage.

3 - A lot of people really hate/strongly dislike Cerberus because of let's see; murder of Adm. Kohoku, Overlord, Chasca, the Rachni experiments (Me1), Ascension and the attack on the Quarian Fleet, Trident torture den (see Cerberus Daily News January), Industrial accident that dropped eezo on humans at Yandoa), etc.

4 - Yay! They brought Shep back from the dead with Lazarus.  But with their history of incompetence/lack of judgement/common sense it seems to be rather reckless to trust them in general (not touching the CB debate).

[GodWood]

Lord Nicholai wrote...

GodWood wrote...
Halo Reach did the same thing and yet that was an enjoyable game.

HaloReach is one game... and it's a prequel, you know the outcome already. You don't spend hours in 2 previous games making choices with the hope that you can win, only for it to turn out that you have no chance at all.
You don't lose at the end of the main Halo trilogy, and if you did it would suck.

Well thats where you and me differ.
If executed in a well written, 'emotionaly engaging' way I could quite happily play through 3 games, lose, and be perfectly content.

[Slayer299]

GodWood wrote...

I honestly don't see why it matters though. 
Everyone lives ending.
Everyone dies ending.
The series is over regardless and you're never going to see your Shepard again.
(is not supporting only having the one ending)

Replay value. Knowing a defeat/loss at the end is inevitable I cannot see repeating the series.

Cool, thought you were actually supporting the 1. I do agree that ME 3 must have multiple endings and that it should be very, very, hard (if not potentially impossible) to achieve the *everyone survives* ending and including the every one dies ending as well.

[H2Ape]

Last Vizard wrote...

H2Ape wrote...

I think it would be great if the only thing you could do was leave clues for the next intelligent life so that they have a better chance of fighting the Reapers

You blew up the Collector base didn't you, now you need it and don't want to play through again so you just want everyone elses parallel Mass effect universes to be screwed too huh?

I for one mad the right choices.... ie. kept the Rachni Queen alive, Killed the council (loved it so much too, plus all the Turian misstrust of humans had them building as many ships as possible to defend themselves from the all powerful human race) unified the Geth, hopefully talked the Quarians outa attacking the Geth (Geth referred to themselves as gaurdings of the Quarian home world or something like that... so they just need to ask real nice for it back) and kept the base.

Oh and i don't understand all the anti-Cerberus comments i see everywhere, they spent alot of money to bring him back so i gave them the base... Cerberus is our only hope...... so much to say, but i'll just say one last thing, humans don't have that many Dreadnaughts (or whatever they are) but we have alot of Carriers (and we know from world War 2 that they are they super weapons of naval combat...(okay, the fighter/bombers that they carry are but you know what i mean.

The idea that I would want to change the game for other people just so I don't have to play the game over again is cute. Please try not to put too much thought into it, you may hurt yourself.
Let's see we played basically the same, but I did destroy the collector base...with one of my Shepards.
I want to know who you hooked up with.

[ISpeakTheTruth]

Bioware has built this serios on choices if after 3 games and hundreds of hours of content it is revealed that whatever you chose to do was meaningless because you were going to lose anyway no matter what you did or didn't do than you'd have a terrible game. Now if you played badly in the game and died than yeah sure go for that but if there is no way of actually winning than everything was meaningless and that is how the game would be seen.

[Last Vizard]

H2Ape wrote...

I have a hard time seeing a way that you could win at this point.

TECH, TECH, TECH, the thalix guns that you replace the old ones on your ship, REAPER TECH! (yelling at the screen) according to the grand transformatron walking ship dreadnaughts called REAPERs!!!! we shouldn't have recovered that tech from the vangaurd REAPER at the end of ME1! so when the COLLECTOR ship comes out of the COLLECTOR space station (with a smug look on their face) then get knocked the F out by the REAPER TECH THALIX CANNONS (shouldn't have happend cause we shouldn't have that TECH!!!!!) so we are well ahead of any other cycle, these are Turian made too (they hate us for the First contac ass whoopin we gave them.. plus i killed the council, sick pleasure grin lol for the good on the galaxy i thought but the next council is just as stupid... hope i can kill them too) so they are equiping all their ships with them... humans have to do this aswell cause we don't like the Turians..... They attacked us and took one of our worlds (pretty big deal). what if they could put on cannon on a smaller ship (Frigit/fighter/planetary gun/space platform/ really big Geth walking gun...) okay so to recap:
REAPERS - very pissed off that they have to fly the whole way back in or use some other portal thing that is less conveniant plus we have TECH that we shouldn't have... oh and the Protheans F'd their remote cycle buying us more time (Sovereign tried to use the Rachni to take the citadel about 2000 years ago and who knows how long till he realised that it wasn't the Batteries that were F'd in his remote when he was trying to activate the citadel relay from mine Kampfy chair) so now we (galaxy races)  have really big fleets they gota worry about (Protheans didn't seem as cool as us with the whole "i'm gonna kill you cause you have a different : insert reason here i.e. religion.race or culture... or lots of oil so we'll make the trade centers an inside job to give us a reason to go to war with some random guy you helped just a few years before) (freedom of speech and thought i think hahaha funny) so the Prothean's didn't have massive fleets to make war on themselves or defend themselves from another race (they were smart though) OH AND NOW WE HAVE THE COLLECTOR BASE AND THE ABILITY TO MAKE REAPERS OR ATLEAST HAVE SOME MORE INFORMATION ON THEM/TECH AT LEAST.

[H2Ape]

Last Vizard wrote...

H2Ape wrote...

I have a hard time seeing a way that you could win at this point.

TECH, TECH, TECH, the thalix guns that you replace the old ones on your ship, REAPER TECH! (yelling at the screen) according to the grand transformatron walking ship dreadnaughts called REAPERs!!!! we shouldn't have recovered that tech from the vangaurd REAPER at the end of ME1! so when the COLLECTOR ship comes out of the COLLECTOR space station (with a smug look on their face) then get knocked the F out by the REAPER TECH THALIX CANNONS (shouldn't have happend cause we shouldn't have that TECH!!!!!) so we are well ahead of any other cycle, these are Turian made too (they hate us for the First contac ass whoopin we gave them.. plus i killed the council, sick pleasure grin lol for the good on the galaxy i thought but the next council is just as stupid... hope i can kill them too) so they are equiping all their ships with them... humans have to do this aswell cause we don't like the Turians..... They attacked us and took one of our worlds (pretty big deal). what if they could put on cannon on a smaller ship (Frigit/fighter/planetary gun/space platform/ really big Geth walking gun...) okay so to recap:
REAPERS - very pissed off that they have to fly the whole way back in or use some other portal thing that is less conveniant plus we have TECH that we shouldn't have... oh and the Protheans F'd their remote cycle buying us more time (Sovereign tried to use the Rachni to take the citadel about 2000 years ago and who knows how long till he realised that it wasn't the Batteries that were F'd in his remote when he was trying to activate the citadel relay from mine Kampfy chair) so now we (galaxy races)  have really big fleets they gota worry about (Protheans didn't seem as cool as us with the whole "i'm gonna kill you cause you have a different : insert reason here i.e. religion.race or culture... or lots of oil so we'll make the trade centers an inside job to give us a reason to go to war with some random guy you helped just a few years before) (freedom of speech and thought i think hahaha funny) so the Prothean's didn't have massive fleets to make war on themselves or defend themselves from another race (they were smart though) OH AND NOW WE HAVE THE COLLECTOR BASE AND THE ABILITY TO MAKE REAPERS OR ATLEAST HAVE SOME MORE INFORMATION ON THEM/TECH AT LEAST.

You hooked up with Miranda didn't you?
Reapers supposedly outnumber us. It wouldn't matter how strong our weapons are if they can actually darken the sky of every world.

[NanQuan]

I'm not ok with a mandatory loss ending. I hate existentialism in games. And I know some people love it, but it wouldn't make sense for ME, a series that has shown absolutely no existentialist leanings, to suddenly throw a no-win situation at you.

[Last Vizard]

GodWood wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...
So the mere existence of there being a victorious outcome would be disappointing?

If it lacked any kind of losses or repercussions, yes.

Each choice should result in both positives and negatives, some more than the other.
E.g) Cured the krogan? helps against Reapers but results in Civil war afterwards.
Sacrificed the Council? Build up of ships between humans and turians helps against reapers but creates tensions/hostilities between humans and turians post war.
Saved the Council + Destroyed Collector Base? Heavy losses but more stable galaxy afterwards.

Stuff like that.

@ Alienmorph, my mistake.

As long as there is Man there will always be conflict... near extinction won't heal all hate, it is natural to be racest, it is unnatural to tolerate other race/species.... its only sentient beings that can or will try to tollerate others, sometimes a difference of opinion is enough to kill or go to war. but i'm sure either way everyone would forget about killing each other for a long while after the Reapers are defeated (and maybe Cerberus lead humans will step in as rulers and begin a new golden age... for humans)

[ISpeakTheTruth]

You do realise that the whole 'Darken the sky of every world" line is probably an exaggeration right? Besides you're also forgetting a huge advantage that we have over the other cycles right? We still have the Mass Relays. The reason why the Reapers are able to destroy every specie every cycle is because they can shut down all the ralays from the Citadel and then take their time destroying once star system at a time. They don't have that luxery anymore.



They're able to destroy the species because every time they've distroyed that specie's ability to travel system to system to give support or informations. Now we get to keep our network open which has never happened before which means for the first time ever they actually have to fight a war rather than focus on one sytem at a time.



Every race before us had no chance because each system was standing on its own. Now the entire galaxy is coneccted and able to support eachother.

[Destroy Raiden_]

I wouldn't want the sole ending to be lose, they should also have a win and win at heavy cost and several lost major worlds ending. I've played games that contained the lose option and it worked for the subject they were covering. I mainly see movies that have the lose ending but that as well works well for their subjects I just can't see a happy ending for a movie dealing with say war or the worlds that should've ended badly not last second save ending we got.

[Last Vizard]

The idea that I would want to change the game for other people just so I don't have to play the game over again is cute. Please try not to put too much thought into it, you may hurt yourself.
Let's see we played basically the same, but I did destroy the collector base...with one of my Shepards.
I want to know who you hooked up with.
[/quote]

Tali Zora

[Bad King]

If you lost to the reapers no matter what, it really wouldn't be what Mass Effect is all about. In ME there were multiple endings: Save the council/Human-led council/All-human council with Udina/Anderson as councillor. In ME2 there were slightly less options, but still multiple endings: you could save or destroy the collector base. Now, if in Mass Effect 3 all of these choices and paths lead to one ending where you lost, it would seriously suck. There should be a lot of different endings which all depend on the choices you make in all three games. Sure, one of the endings could be losing to the reapers, but it certainly shouldn't be the only possible ending.

Modifié par Bad King, 22 décembre 2010 - 06:24 .

[Iakus]

I'd be fine if it was possible to lose.

I'd be more than fine if winning required some sort of major sacrifice.  On Shepard's part or the galaxy as a whole.

I'd even be okay if total victory was impossible, that there was an opening left for  possible sequels.

But I wouldn't be okay with there being no way to win at all.  Especially after three games.  I don't believe in Kobyashi Maru-type stories.  I more subscibe to Chesterton's view on fairy tales.

[Jacen987]

Losing FTW.Honestly something thats always dissed me about Shepard,is how Bioware want to turn him into the ultimate Superhero.His past victories were incredible accomplishments,as it is.Stopping a 1 single Reaper was pushing it.I mean its possible,since Sovereign had become impatient and arrogant(Its prob Shepards actions that forced him into attacking prematurely and controlling his avatar directly,instead of focusing on the alliance fleet.)

Ad to that his pursuit and victory over Saren,the Collectors and we have an Individual that already achieved more than anyone who was ever born.



However stopping a cycle,that has existed for billions of years and constructs so ancient,and alien,and numerous as the Reaper is pushing it,way beyond the Realm of Reality,that ME has always been more or less based on.Its just not suppose to be possible.Heck Shep,still doesnt understand what the Reapers are,and want exactly.



The common ending should definately be losing.

1)The galaxy is purged of life.Every single race.Probably Paragon.

2)Only the Humans remain,elevated into godhood.Some kind,Reaper-Human Hybrid.Thanks to Shepards efforts in the first 2 games.

3)Renegade Shepard becomes Saren,an avatar of the Reapers.,and finishes what he began,perhaps sabotaging The ''Good Guys" effort.





And the only victory,with huge losses.



4)Based on specific choices form ME1,ME2 and ME3,where you make the right choice in all 3 games.Shepard,despite huge losses,to the galaxy and his crew,manages to push the Reapers into dark space,or make some kind of truce with them.It should be difficult to achieve,so that less that 25% of the player base manages to get that ending on a first play-through.

[Last Vizard]

Slayer299 wrote...

Last Vizard wrote...

Oh and i don't understand all the anti-Cerberus comments i see everywhere, they spent alot of money to bring him back so i gave them the base... Cerberus is our only hope...... so much to say, but i'll just say one last thing, humans don't have that many Dreadnaughts (or whatever they are) but we have alot of Carriers (and we know from world War 2 that they are they super weapons of naval combat...(okay, the fighter/bombers that they carry are but you know what i mean.

I have a question for you here;
1 - How is Cerberus the galaxy's *only* hope? Granted, at the time of ME2 they are the ones helping you with the Collectors, but they aren't a galaxy spanning group with superweapons and ships at their beck and call. And why would't you need the Asari, Turians, Salarians, Krogan and/or even Batarians to fight the Reapers?

2 - Carriers are good and were the superweapons of WW2, but they're also really damned fragile too. And we've seen the Reapers have their own fighters so that isn't a sole advantage.

3 - A lot of people really hate/strongly dislike Cerberus because of let's see; murder of Adm. Kohoku, Overlord, Chasca, the Rachni experiments (Me1), Ascension and the attack on the Quarian Fleet, Trident torture den (see Cerberus Daily News January), Industrial accident that dropped eezo on humans at Yandoa), etc.

4 - Yay! They brought Shep back from the dead with Lazarus.  But with their history of incompetence/lack of judgement/common sense it seems to be rather reckless to trust them in general (not touching the CB debate).

1. What would the out for ME2 universe have been if Shepperd stayed dead? so they save the Galaxy in ME3 by bring you back in ME2 - (i'm a pretty big deal around here") lol

2. I don't recall Reapers having fighters, they used the Geth's help at the end of ME1 so maybe i missed the Reaper fighters in ME2, i got the impression that the Reaper were all dreadnaught class ships and (I really like modern history... mainly the world wars) it seemed that all the other races didn't have WW's early on in there histories so they didn't realise that Carriers were more powerfull than Battleships because of bombers and such.  so in a way there ready for yesterdays conflict instead of moving forwards. (and in the codex it says that there is no restriction on Carrier numbers so for 30 years humanity would have been force to build carriers to make up for the destroyers they couldn't build (restricted to the triangle system... five for them/one for us)

3. Cerberus is a bunch of splinter cells, the illusive Man gives them an objective and they try to reach the ends throguh any means.... i killed those cells and made sure they got what they deserved plus it wasn't till the end of the game that i began to side with the illusive Man, (cold logic is needed is Humanity is to stand at the top)... we don't have to rule all other races but ensure that noone looks **** eyed at us or we'll give em a taste of dirty Harry (the Chuck is over kill) ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------Industrial accident that dropped eezo on humans at Yandoa. Horrible thing to do but it gave us humans with biotics.... ends justifies the means.

[Last Vizard]

Jacen987 wrote...

Losing FTW.Honestly something thats always dissed me about Shepard,is how Bioware want to turn him into the ultimate Superhero.His past victories were incredible accomplishments,as it is.Stopping a 1 single Reaper was pushing it.I mean its possible,since Sovereign had become impatient and arrogant(Its prob Shepards actions that forced him into attacking prematurely and controlling his avatar directly,instead of focusing on the alliance fleet.)
Ad to that his pursuit and victory over Saren,the Collectors and we have an Individual that already achieved more than anyone who was ever born.

However stopping a cycle,that has existed for billions of years and constructs so ancient,and alien,and numerous as the Reaper is pushing it,way beyond the Realm of Reality,that ME has always been more or less based on.Its just not suppose to be possible.Heck Shep,still doesnt understand what the Reapers are,and want exactly.

The common ending should definately be losing.
1)The galaxy is purged of life.Every single race.Probably Paragon.
2)Only the Humans remain,elevated into godhood.Some kind,Reaper-Human Hybrid.Thanks to Shepards efforts in the first 2 games.
3)Renegade Shepard becomes Saren,an avatar of the Reapers.,and finishes what he began,perhaps sabotaging The ''Good Guys" effort.


And the only victory,with huge losses.

4)Based on specific choices form ME1,ME2 and ME3,where you make the right choice in all 3 games.Shepard,despite huge losses,to the galaxy and his crew,manages to push the Reapers into dark space,or make some kind of truce with them.It should be difficult to achieve,so that less that 25% of the player base manages to get that ending on a first play-through.

The Protheans already broke the cycle for us. without there loss/win we wouldn't be able to stop the Reapers.

[Last Vizard]

GodWood wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...
Why? The reason the Reapers won all those other times was because of the Citadel trap

We don't know that.
Some may of made it as far as us and lost.

The Keepers are organic machines, the Protheans altered them so that they wouldn't respond to the signal, the strategy the Reapers used (Citadel trap/locked relay system) was almost flawless, after so many easy cycles it seems the Reapers believed that they couldn't be stoped, (they are AI so i would say that they can feel pride)

if you want an ending were you, your loved ones and every thing else (sentient) is harvested or killed then you should play ME0, featuring the half breed of Prothean and Human (Shepperds ancestor, back when the Protheans had the base on mars, sleeps with a Prothean female to make the Prothean that broke the cycle of the Reapers without them even knowing however everyone is dead.

check in stores before the copies run out.

[Last Vizard]

.[/quote]
You hooked up with Miranda didn't you?
Reapers supposedly outnumber us. It wouldn't matter how strong our weapons are if they can actually darken the sky of every world.
[/quote]

it doesn't matter who i hooked up with, i hook up with Tali every playthrough because i like her shy nature, it doesn't matter what she looks like under the mask, skin colour or race...  (it would matter if she was fat though lol)

and i'm sorta sorry for taking over this thread for a bit lol, i was the best debater in high school, you could say i'm a Master/de/bater lol.

[earthbornFemShep]

Nope. I want to beat them and have the optimistic hopeful ending (all my close allies/my LI lives, I save a bunch of people/planets, suffering is minimal).



However, there should be some scenarios where you lose. There should also be differing degrees of success. You should be able to save civilization in different degrees (i.e. something like: largely destroyed, moderately destroyed, destruction contained.), save squad/crew/allies in different degrees (LI dies/lives?, none/one/some/all allies wiped out, crew dies/lives, etc.), and Shepard should be able to be killed/maimed/alive.



Either way, there should be a VERY long epilogue to explain the consequences of Shepard's actions (regardless of whether she/he is alive).

[Last Vizard]

^what she said^

[That One Display Name]

expanding panic wrote...

I'd be pissed if no matter what you lost to the reapers. It's a video game there is always a way.

Halo reach ended with everyone retreating and the planet getting glassed...

I would have no problem losing the endgame as long as the process of getting there was amazing.

[Merlin 47]

Default ending where the outcome is where you lose?  No thanks; I don't mind if there's an ending where you CAN lose.  But, I'd rather play a game where I know that no matter what I do, I'm going to lose anyway.  If I wanted to play in a Dark Sun universe, I'd play Dark Sun (talk about doomed from the start....).  I don't mind being given opportunities to prevent total destruction/loss from happening and if they don't happen, fine; you lose something.

But to play a game that you're guaranteed to lose everything no matter what, then there would have been no point in playing the first two Mass Effect games in the first place.  I never liked games where I was told, "Well, despite everything you did, you lose anyway, because I said so."

And there's no point in arguing this, because there are deeply drawn lines and neither side can convince the other.  The best both sides can do is just agree to disagree.

EDIT: Again, I support fully multiple endings; I just don't want an "automatic loss" as the default ending, no matter what.

Modifié par Merlin 47, 22 décembre 2010 - 10:13 .