54 réponses à ce sujet

[nicethugbert]

kamalpoe wrote...

Give xp for disarming traps and picking locks, and make traps more dangerous. All of a sudden rogue doesn't look so useless and they hold their own in accumulating xp for the party.

This!

POE is a very rogue accomodating module, in unique and custom ways to.  White Plume Mountain and Risen Hero also give the rogue his due.

The rogue class is under utilized by module builders.  It really is a great class to accompany, compliment, or shepard the PC.  It's such a flexible class by it's nature.  You can use it to advance plots easily when the PC is clearly not suited to do so because all Gronk can do is smash and drool, all the Holy Man can do is pray, and The Wiz is waiting for just the right time for just the right spell.

I think that modules that make good use of rogues are a cut above.  They are more fleshed out modules.  Even if they don't have traps and locks, there are lots of skills that can be used to flesh out a module and rogue has nearly all of them.  Plus, it's image is more flexible and backed up by implementation.  A rogue can be a thug, a diplomat, a master of deception, an information expert, a scout, a McGuyver, an entertainer, an archer, a sword and board skirmsher, despite the fact that the WotC implementaton can be improved greatly.  Bard has a good skill set and decent skill points per level, but, it's got an art image that needs accomodating.

[The Fred]

The one issue I have with the rogue is that in Baldur's Gate, for example, I always felt that I *had* to have a rogue... or at least that it was expected of me. I want rogues to be useful, but not necessary, especially not when the party size is smaller. I probably will make traps give XP, though, and offer some alternative rogue-ish ways to finish quests.

[kamalpoe]

The Fred wrote...

The one issue I have with the rogue is that in Baldur's Gate, for example, I always felt that I *had* to have a rogue... or at least that it was expected of me. I want rogues to be useful, but not necessary, especially not when the party size is smaller. I probably will make traps give XP, though, and offer some alternative rogue-ish ways to finish quests.

Well, there were find/remove traps spells, so you didn't really have to have one. Just like you didn't really have to have a healer. People completed the BG series solo with every class. You could solo the entire BG series with a solo wizard and someone did and wrote up the whole thing.
http://www.baldurdash.org/journal.html

One thing I did to cater to rogues was most any quest that involved fetching an item that wasn't attached to someone's body (or really large) could be done by pickpocketing the item.

I'm going to pimp my blog a bit, but I did a lot of work on alternate uses for skills. Detailed weapon knowledge from Craft Weapons weapon tells you the murder weapon was not a hammer like the guard believes, but a mace. Listen becomes a lot more useful skill if you're listen skill level is so good you're a human lie detector, hearing all the stress in people's voices, and Use Magic Devices becomes more useful if it gives you an innate understanding of how the magically locked door in the dungeon works so you can get right past it.
kamalpoe.blogspot.com/2010/02/how-are-you-using-skill-checks.html

Modifié par kamalpoe, 05 janvier 2011 - 10:57 .

[Arkalezth]

Agreed with the Rogue/traps thing, but Haplose is right. Eliminating Able Learner would also eliminate that possibility, and since you already cut some classes, you could do that. Or change it somehow.

[The Fred]

I know people have soloed BG with pretty much every class, and there are ways around traps and things, but having to fill your spellbook with Knock and Find Traps (and I think Find Traps is a Cleric spell, and I can't remember if it actually removed them, or just reveals them) is tough, especially at low levels. Of course, it hurt not having a tank or not havign a mage almost as much as it hurt not having a rogue, I guess, but whereas you could swap out a Fighter for a Ranger, Paladin, or even a Cleric (maybe a multi-classed Cleric, or even a dual-classed Mage type) you couldn't really replace a Rogue with anything else.



I think I will probably just allow people to use Able Learner to take rogue skills, since spending a feat is a fair price to pay (maybe add some prereqs to it or something) - that way they don't have to take a rogue. That said, I never really felt I had to take a rogue in NWN2, so some rogue-based content in the first place *is* a must. People who don't want to play Rogue can always play Ninja, after all. ;-)