465 réponses à ce sujet

[AtreiyaN7]

Good - everyone gets to be happy presumably.

[dgcatanisiri]

ReconTeam wrote...
You don't ask somebody who may kick your ass a potentially offensive or rude quesiton. I don't see what is so offensive about that.

Well it goes the other way too - what if someone who may kick your ass came up and asked you a potentially offensive or rude question? How do you answer them? Let's say I play my character as exclusively gay. By that same logic, if my character were to approach someone on the street and ask them to have sex with him, they would agree to it solely to prevent themselves from being maimed or killed.

As a gamer who is gay, I like playing as close to my own personality and interests, which means that I prefer to have a option to play as a gay character. I don't ask anyone else take that option, but I like being included in the games I play, rather than be pushed into a romance path that is designed to solely satisfy heterosexual gamers and completely exclude gamers like myself who are gay. The roleplaying experience may allow us to play as another person, but in practice, most people like to play as an idealized version of themselves. While the romances are not required, they are a big part of the character development in the course of the game, and we want our preferences to be included. That's all we've wanted - inclusion and equality. Minority or not, we DO exist, and we want to be treated with the same respect that heterosexual players get. That's all.

[Kabada]

Maybe I'm totally stupid, but even after reading/skimming 18 pages of this thread, where is the original story? Sb. said it's in some French interview or sth. ?! Link please...

[Manx II]

Cat Lance wrote...
This is one of those times when people don't need to think of dragons, but of the cultures of the world they are discussing, as Mr. Gaider has said over and over, this is not a medievil Europe simulator, it's it's own world and cultures, etc.

We're not talking simulation, but at least some degree of believability. The evidence for female warriors throughout history is limited and debatable at best (Celts included), but at no point in human history has there been a feodal society nearly as inclusive as Ferelden. That's where I find that DAO goes off too far, and the world loses some of its credibility.

I fail to see where they need to offer up exact numbers to us. They feel that the numbers warrant continued inclusion. *shrugs*

They don't "need" to do anything. It would, however, help discussion greatly if we had facts rather than simply opinions and conjecture. And again, the limited inclusion of such elements implies that it while interest wasn't nonexistent, it certainly wasn't all that great.

Modifié par Manx II, 25 décembre 2010 - 12:33 .

[caradoc2000]

Kabada wrote...

Maybe I'm totally stupid, but even after reading/skimming 18 pages of this thread, where is the original story? Sb. said it's in some French interview or sth. ?! Link please...

http://social.biowar...-5522817-1.html

[AlarisT]

David Gaider wrote...

Maria is correct. It was not my intention to torture anyone regarding this topic-- just advise those involved to have a realistic view of what goes into the decision, and why the Mass Effect team might have gone a different way. Having people stridently proclaim that they have the "right" to a romance of their preference just doesn't sit well with me, though naturally I get people wanting such things-- and, happily, occasionally have the chance to provide.

So long as romances of any kind are optional and need to be actively pursued by the player in order to be experienced, they simply don't have a leg to stand on. Advocating that nobody should be able to have content you don't intend to personally use is largely pointless-- outside of a vague notion that such efforts should go towards other things, instead. Personally, it's not a lot of effort to include them. The resources we can devote to a minority of players isn't great, but I imagine to those players it's quite worth it... and I would hope that some folks could be sensitive enough to be happy for those players, at the very least out of the selfish notion that they may one day end up in the minority of some content issue and receive the same consideration if nothing else.

The problem with this logic, is you ignore the fact that by even leaving the option to actively pursue same gender romances, you are including this hotly debated issue into your game, which is played in homes (for the most part I'm assuming.)  Therefore, you will get backlash by including that option, like it or not.

Understandably, the homosexual community wants equality in many areas including marriage.  As a christian, I don't know if I've ever seen a homosexual-equality advocate say something similar; i.e. "Understandably, christians believe homosexuality to be a sin."  I am not opening that debate--just pointing out that both sides believe their own side to their very core. 

Those christians who try to be choosey about what comes into their homes now have to keep an extra wary eye on Bioware games.  A good parent should do this anyway regardless of any content Bioware chooses to include or withold from their games; but including the option of same-gender romances just makes the decision to obstain from purchasing Bioware games all too easy for christian parents ... and jewish and muslim parents--pretty sure they also view homosexuality as a grievous sin.  Wow, to satisfy the few with that little option you truly are in danger of hurting your bottom line - $$ cha ching.

Perhaps if you could disable blood and same-gender romances ... with a password ... oh and put some more clothes on that tree spirit chick .... oh who am I kidding?  Son, you're not playing Dragon Age in my home.

While you're at it, you should have a polygamist option ... wait, I'm pretty sure someone already made that mod lol!

Oh, and I assure you, christians are in the increasing minority on a great many issues and receive zero consideration for the vast majority of those issues. 

[Kabada]

caradoc2000 wrote...

Kabada wrote...

Maybe I'm totally stupid, but even after reading/skimming 18 pages of this thread, where is the original story? Sb. said it's in some French interview or sth. ?! Link please...

http://social.biowar...-5522817-1.html

Thank you! I have to say, if not for David Gaider's confirmation in this thread, I wouldn't have been so bold as to read a 100% confirmation into the "all orientations" subsentence of that interview.

On topic: 

Awesome stuff. I just preordered my DA2 copy because of those news.

[shnizzler93]

Personally, I don't care. If that's what will happen, that's what will happen. I'll pursue it though if their are achievements/trophies involved

[upsettingshorts]

AlarisT wrote...

Understandably, the homosexual community wants equality in many areas

You don't have to be part of "the homosexual community" to want or even demand equality. 

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 25 décembre 2010 - 12:36 .

[Kabada]

@AlarisT: Being a christian is 100% choice. Being gay isn't.



If you choose to find people being themselves offensive, that's your choice. Personally, I find portraying religion positively offensive. Religion itself s a stupid concept, imho, it is a millstone dragging humanity down, keeping it from using its full potential.



So, do you think, should I worry about my kids seeing churches on the street? Or worry about them playing games that have positively portrayed religious people in them?



And the best part about your statements: I am almost positive you are not even aware how insulting they are to some people.

[Herr Uhl]

I'm largely unsurprised.

[In Exile]

Manx II wrote..
We're not talking simulation, but at least some degree of believability. The evidence for female warriors throughout history is limited and debatable at best (Celts included), but at no point in human history has there been a feodal society nearly as inclusive as Ferelden. That's where I find that DAO goes off too far, and the world loses some of its credibility.

That's because you're thinking too Western. Europe wasn't, but in terms of attitudes toward practices, if you look further east you will find a much more cosmopolitan and tolerant cultural milieu. That the Europeans were very narrow-minded at that particular leve of technological development doesn't some hypothetical fantasy society would also be.

They don't "need" to do anything. It would, however, help discussion greatly if we had facts rather than simply opinions and conjecture. And again, the limited inclusion of such elements implies that it while interest wasn't nonexistent, it certainly wasn't all that great.

If it's a feature that costs very little to implement, is optional and greatly improves the experience for even a small minority of users... the cost benefit analysis is favourable.

[In Exile]

AlarisT wrote...
Those christians who try to be choosey about what comes into their homes now have to keep an extra wary eye on Bioware games.  A good parent should do this anyway regardless of any content Bioware chooses to include or withold from their games; but including the option of same-gender romances just makes the decision to obstain from purchasing Bioware games all too easy for christian parents ... and jewish and muslim parents--pretty sure they also view homosexuality as a grievous sin.  Wow, to satisfy the few with that little option you truly are in danger of hurting your bottom line - $$ cha ching

Dragon Age Origins, without same-sex relationships, involved the following sins (at least as far as I know re: Christianity): blasphemny and idolatry (worshiping false gods like the maker and false prophets like andraste); witchcraft (and an actual witch in Morrigain), pre-material sex(this is what every romance is, as it culiminates in pre-marital sex), adultery - of a sort (since you can cheat on your partner), lying, murder, bestiality, prostitution, demonology....

I mean the sheer degree of sin in DA:O is serious. If you're going to draw the line at this one particular sin, I would say those that violate the ten commandments are worse.

[thedistortedchild]

AlarisT wrote...

(snip)
While you're at it, you should have a polygamist option ... wait, I'm pretty sure someone already made that mod lol!

Oh, and I assure you, christians are in the increasing minority on a great many issues and receive zero consideration for the vast majority of those issues. 

I'm just going to assume that your post was either sarcastic, or that you are a moron. Christians are not the minority at least not where I live (in America) 9 times out of ten they get their bigoted way.
Also, any hype about Bioware having S/S in it will simply increase money, Faux News actually did Bioware a favor by hating on ME's "simulated sex". Hype about sex and controversy increases game sales, not the opposite.

[ejoslin]

AlarisT wrote...
Those christians who try to be choosey about what comes into their homes now have to keep an extra wary eye on Bioware games.  A good parent should do this anyway regardless of any content Bioware chooses to include or withold from their games; but including the option of same-gender romances just makes the decision to obstain from purchasing Bioware games all too easy for christian parents ... and jewish and muslim parents--pretty sure they also view homosexuality as a grievous sin.  Wow, to satisfy the few with that little option you truly are in danger of hurting your bottom line - $$ cha ching

DAO is rated M for a reason.  I'd really be surprised if what Christian parents buy their children is really a concern for the producers of a game that is for adults.  I'd be pretty upset if it were, tbh. 

[Merci357]

AlarisT wrote...

Those christians who try to be choosey about what comes into their homes now have to keep an extra wary eye on Bioware games.  A good parent should do this anyway regardless of any content Bioware chooses to include or withold from their games; but including the option of same-gender romances just makes the decision to obstain from purchasing Bioware games all too easy for christian parents ... and jewish and muslim parents--pretty sure they also view homosexuality as a grievous sin.  Wow, to satisfy the few with that little option you truly are in danger of hurting your bottom line - $$ cha ching.

Is this serious? Optional same sex romances are a reason not to play a game, yet theft, murder, profanity, you name your cardinal sin that is _not_ optional during gameplay, are not? To put your mind right, I doubt the number of people that might refuse to play a game because of optional same sex romances isn't in any shape or form larger then the number of people who might enjoy those. And if I, as a company, had to choose between those two, who would you pick? The openminded ones, maybe?

[Creature 1]

AlarisT wrote...

Oh, and I assure you, christians are in the increasing minority on a great many issues and receive zero consideration for the vast majority of those issues. 

And for good reason, too. 

Merry Christmas! 

[slimgrin]

Christians are in the minority? What planet is this?

[Creature 1]

slimgrin wrote...

Christians are in the minority? What planet is this?

I think he means his particular brand of Christian.  On the topic of homosexuality, he is absolutely correct that the opinions he and his fellows share are becoming more rare.  As with civil rights, in another generation opposing gay rights will be considered a hopelessly backward point of view. 

These opinions aren't shared by all Christians, obviously.  I'm about to go to a Christmas Eve service at a church that recently held a blessing service for a lesbian couple who have been together for decades. 

[caradoc2000]

slimgrin wrote...

Christians are in the minority? What planet is this?

Two-thirds of the world's population are non-christians, so it is definitely a minority.

[slimgrin]

caradoc2000 wrote...

Two-thirds of the world's population are non-christians, so it is definitely a minority.

What ever will they do...

Sorry, but I don't see how this is a religious issue. I'll bow out now before I say what's truly on my mind.

[Ziggeh]

In Exile wrote...

AlarisT wrote...
Those christians who try to be choosey about what comes into their homes now have to keep an extra wary eye on Bioware games.  A good parent should do this anyway regardless of any content Bioware chooses to include or withold from their games; but including the option of same-gender romances just makes the decision to obstain from purchasing Bioware games all too easy for christian parents ... and jewish and muslim parents--pretty sure they also view homosexuality as a grievous sin.  Wow, to satisfy the few with that little option you truly are in danger of hurting your bottom line - $$ cha ching

Dragon Age Origins, without same-sex relationships, involved the following sins (at least as far as I know re: Christianity): blasphemny and idolatry (worshiping false gods like the maker and false prophets like andraste); witchcraft (and an actual witch in Morrigain), pre-material sex(this is what every romance is, as it culiminates in pre-marital sex), adultery - of a sort (since you can cheat on your partner), lying, murder, bestiality, prostitution, demonology....

I mean the sheer degree of sin in DA:O is serious. If you're going to draw the line at this one particular sin, I would say those that violate the ten commandments are worse.

I suppose the counter argument to that is that despite it being massively hypocritical, many will indeed act in this manner.

Not that that matters. Not every decisions should be made based on the bottom line, and this would, very much, be one that should not.

Modifié par Ziggeh, 25 décembre 2010 - 02:36 .

[Addai]

AlarisT wrote...
The problem with this logic, is you ignore the fact that by even leaving the option to actively pursue same gender romances, you are including this hotly debated issue into your game, which is played in homes (for the most part I'm assuming.)  Therefore, you will get backlash by including that option, like it or not.

Are you for real?  This game involves slaughtering dozens, if not hundreds of people.  You have the option of killing people in cold blood for the lulz.  You can kill a child.  And the availability of optional s/s romances is "the" hot button issue for you regarding BioWare games?  That's how you're going to decide whether or not your kids get to play it?

I smell a troll.