104 réponses à ce sujet

[JamieCOTC]

I like ME2 a lot but it's the most constrictive BW game I've ever played.

[Hwalkerl]

I have to agree, although you have the choice of which "quests" to complete first it lacks the overall grand scale of ME1. I have to say I bought the game ME2 thinking it would be ME1 but so much more awesome and fealt a vast departure from my expectations. It's to bad it has weakened the franchise for me. I will still buy ME3 but am not anticipatingas much as I was ME2 after playing ME1...

Modifié par Hwalkerl, 23 décembre 2010 - 12:56 .

[88mphSlayer]

LesEnfantsTerribles wrote...

I do miss the feeling of vastness and remoteness from ME1 whenever I play ME2. There's something quite special about exploring a large uncharted planet, complimented by unusual and extraterrestrial skies and atmospheres. It contributed to the feeling that there was a huge galaxy waiting to be charted and explored, in contrast to the more confined and segmented feeling of ME2.

ME1 planetary exploration wasn't perfect by any stretch of the imagination, but it was something.

to be fair to ME2 it's a far more personal and dark game than ME1 and is a lot more about personal interactions so the confineness of it fits the themes it's trying to go for, i think it's just the vast difference that everybody immediately notices

ME3's trailer indicates the 3rd game will probably be pretty huge in scale, but i doubt we'll ever see something like the mako planet exploration again, i just can't see that fitting into a game about saving earth

edit: on second thought i bet there will be some vehicle combat on earth at some point

Modifié par 88mphSlayer, 23 décembre 2010 - 01:04 .

[BiancoAngelo7]

Completely agree with article and OP. In ME1 the devs did a MASTERFUL job, really amazing of creating the illusion of size and scale with the game universe. Even though some areas were empty or served only to make you travel, taking in the sights, the random NPC's etc. really contributed to immersing you into the game world, making you live an experience, instead of just playing a game.

Things like boarding and disembarcing your ship, the VI saying the XO has the bridge or the CO is back on board, elevators and the lack of any loading screens made ME1 the most seemless game I have ever had the pleasure of playing.

Not to mention that all those worlds with the Mako exploring, fighting, taking in the views, uncovering quest items and lore it was just magical. The skyboxes we got, the planets and their unique colors, looks, circumstances and sometimes even side quests (not all were copy paste base/mine levels) really added a HUGE element of vast scale to ME1 that made me feel like I WAS commander Shepard and I WAS exploring the galaxy and kicking as* and taking names.

That wasn't the whole caboodle either. Things like the simple and functional galaxy map, that still puts to shame the ME2 map, the graphics and textures used on planets again putting to shame the ones in ME2. The large and interesting places you got to explore that were much more than the "amazing" one room wonder levels of Omega or the Citadel, if you can still call it that, where in ME1 we got to literally explore twice as much as in ME2 (or at least it felt that way, which is what matters in the end)

The small things like exploring every single last system and reading all the planet descriptions cuz they were all so amazing, and the anticipation and sense of wonder, not knowing if you were going to uncover a side quest, minerals hidden in an asteroid belt, or a planet to land on with unique atmosphere, graphics, situations and enemies...

The removal of such elegant, vibrant and fantastically engaging and immersion-intensive game elements for ME2 was the single most disappointing and crushing event of my adult life, (talking about games of course).

I still remember the anticipation before ME2 came out, I had literally NEVER been so anxious to play a game (and I usually dont care about such things, even with games I like) and I was looking forward to it because at a point where I was now an adult, thinking about all the things they did in ME1 and how they were going to improve upon what was already an unforgettable and unique gaming experience that I had not found ANYWHERE else in the gaming industry made me feel like I was 12 again the day before Christmas. I was literally giddy. That's right. Giddy.

But then I played ME2.

-.-

Don't get me wrong, its a great game. But it's lacking every single one of the masterful and detailed game elements that made it the AMAZING experience it was in ME1.

After I had finished playing it, yeah, I was entertained and I appreciated Bioware for their hard work. But at the same time I couldn't stop shaking my head saying "wow...the fight with the reapers/collectors was a side quest, loading screens everywhere, "mission complete" screens, ZERO immersion, ZERO exploration, they cut out EVERYTHING that made ME1 the unique light in the darkness of the gaming industry so they could try and do "Gears of War in space."...with a dialogue wheel and character interacion...."Great."

I'm sorry to go on and on, but no matter how much time passes, this wound just won't heal. If Bioware keeps following this path of worshiping the commercial and flashy over the in depth immersion-intensive experience they did in ME1, (as it seems very likely they will) I do not have high hopes at all for ME3.

One thing is certain, that after ME1, I was waiting for ME2 literally counting down the days, reading the novels, buying any and all game magazines I could find with an article on ME2 (being a nerd basically).

After having played ME2, I am literally "simply curious" as to how this trilogy ends.

If any bioware dev reads this, I don't expect this comment would drastically change your mind on anything. But if anything, I would hope it would make you pause, and ask yourself "hmm...how did a die hard, ME fan in love with EVERYTHING about our game go from dying from anticipation for anything Mass Effect to just barely caring?"

If anyone over at Bioware asked themselves questions like that more often, I think a lot of the mistakes that were made in ME2 would have never happened.

sorry again, end rant.

Edit: if they did at least bring back exploration for ME3, a really nice step in the right direction would be to give us the choice between using the Mako or
the Hammerhead, and to at least let us exit the vehicle when exploring
(I hope) UNC planets like in ME1.

Modifié par BiancoAngelo7, 23 décembre 2010 - 01:16 .

[MajesticJazz]

And not just ME1 but when you compare ME2's "illusion of size" to Jade Empire and even KOTOR, you can see how Bioware slowly begun to streamline their games to have a broader appeal to Shooter/3rd Person Action game fans.



Compare Exploring Taris to Exploring Omega

Compare Exploring Korriban to Exploring the Citadel (ME2)



You get the point.

[Googlesaurus]

They don't even have to design entire setpieces just to install that feeling. There was a certain ME1 planet which was extremely close to another planet/star, and whenever you looked up the entire sky was filled by its imposing neighbor. That alone can work.

[DJBare]

I'm playing ME1 this moment, Just took the elevator from the docking bay to C-SEC, when you get some way down the c-sec area comes into view below giving you a very nice perspective on size, ME1 was more like an open world game, I hope ME3 does the same, I do enjoy ME2 but very much miss that aspect of immersion.

[onelifecrisis]

I'm genuinely surprised to see people lamenting the loss of planet exploration in ME1. Each square-mile of planet was cut and pasted. Okay, the skyboxes were unique, but beyond that it was all cut and pasted. Apparently every planet in the galaxy is comprised mainly of vertical cliffs separated by flat plains where Thresher Maws live. There were maybe half a dozen different ground textures. And of course the infamous mine/warehouse sections. I find it really hard to believe these terrains gave anyone a sense of space and scale; they had the exact opposite effect on me. It was like the movie Groundhog Day.

And I mean no offense but really, anyone who visited every single planet on foot needs treatment for OCD and should not be consulted on how to make a good video game.

Modifié par onelifecrisis, 23 décembre 2010 - 01:33 .

[slimgrin]

DJBare wrote...

I'm playing ME1 this moment, Just took the elevator from the docking bay to C-SEC, when you get some way down the c-sec area comes into view below giving you a very nice perspective on size, ME1 was more like an open world game, I hope ME3 does the same, I do enjoy ME2 but very much miss that aspect of immersion.

I couldn't agree more with this statement. Even if the planets were copy paste, the effort for open ended gameplay was at least made by the devs. More side quests, the hub worlds were bigger, and the atmosphere of deep space was more immediate in ME1. I never felt like I was in outer space in ME2.

But I suspect ME3 will be even less open ended because of the urgency of the plot. They need to wrap things up now. So I fear our days of galavanting around the galaxy are done. 

[clennon8]

onelifecrisis wrote...

I'm genuinely surprised to see people lamenting the loss of planet exploration in ME1. Each square-mile of planet was cut and pasted. Okay, the skyboxes were unique, but beyond that it was all cut and pasted. Apparently every planet in the galaxy is comprised mainly of vertical cliffs separated by flat plains where Thresher Maws live. There were maybe half a dozen different ground textures. And of course the infamous mine/warehouse sections. I find it really hard to believe these terrains gave anyone a sense of space and scale; they had the exact opposite effect on me. It was like the movie Groundhog Day.

And I mean no offense but really, anyone who visited every single planet on foot needs treatment for OCD and should not be consulted on how to make a good video game.

I guess I'm OCD then.  I kinda liked the planet exploration, although more textures would have been nice. 

[lazuli]

What made ME2 seem small was how random people you met in ME1 would show up in ME2 for no real reason. Continuity is nice, but what are the odds? Also, how every NPC referred to the same locations you had access to made it seem as if those locations were the only places in the galaxy. I'd like NPC's to mention places I can't visit more frequently.

[slimgrin]

onelifecrisis wrote...

I'm genuinely surprised to see people lamenting the loss of planet exploration in ME1. Each square-mile of planet was cut and pasted. Okay, the skyboxes were unique, but beyond that it was all cut and pasted. Apparently every planet in the galaxy is comprised mainly of vertical cliffs separated by flat plains where Thresher Maws live. There were maybe half a dozen different ground textures. And of course the infamous mine/warehouse sections. I find it really hard to believe these terrains gave anyone a sense of space and scale; they had the exact opposite effect on me. It was like the movie Groundhog Day.

And I mean no offense but really, anyone who visited every single planet on foot needs treatment for OCD and should not be consulted on how to make a good video game.

Here's the thing: just because Bioware used cut and paste environs in ME1, doesn't invalidate the notion of free form gameplay. They did It wrong. Most likely, devs with more experience in crafting open world games would have done it right.

I for one appreciate that Bioware at least tried to strike a balance in ME1. In ME2, too much got chucked out the window.

[onelifecrisis]

Well, I subscribe to the "do it right or don't do it at all" philosophy.

[Pyrate_d]

Planet exploration was just plain bad imo.



ME2 does feel smaller, but I attribute this to me being more familiar with the game world.

[Normandy30]

DJBare wrote...

Some folk lack patience, a walk to the ship was just too much for them, they had to rest their controller fingers and thumbs afterward.

they could still place both in the game though make the normandy still an option at the quick travel terminals. And dont forget they still made you walk all the way to the ship to board it on omega so i really dont know what the point was in trying to keep people happy if they had a probelm with walking to the ship.

[Pyrate_d]

It's funny how some of you act like meaningless, repetitive tasks are enjoyable to a "true gamer," while people who want fun, fluid gameplay are the vastly inferior "shooter fanbase."

[slimgrin]

I hope we can at least pursue missions in the order we like, and that they don't minimize side quests to fetching fish for Krogan. But logic is not my side here, the world needs to be saved. Now. That doesn't bode well for free-form gameplay.

[Zombie Chow]

Every single reply in this thread has been interesting, this is great.  I also think ME2 just felt small outside of combat. Even worse, it felt claustrophobic. Examples:

Anderson - I'm visiting him, but I can't even leave his office and walk the Presidium! I'm trapped!

Liara - she's become a big player, expect her in a skyscraper, then find her office to be a balcony.

Compare those to the mission areas, though:

Harkin - his warehouse is bigger than the whole Zakera Ward! Anderson should move his office there.

Nassana - the Dantius Towers are almost exactly what I expected Liara's office to be like.

But in fairness, maybe the design team had to streamline ME2 for mainstream gamers or just the size of the console game discs. Like many of you, I'm a long-time Bioware RPG fan and PC gamer, so maybe we're just sensitive to this as we lean towards exploring.

My favourite part from OP's article was how Shepard slipped into her futuristic space pajamas. That's so true.

Modifié par Zombie Chow, 23 décembre 2010 - 02:04 .

[Epic777]

For me it was the cut and paste combat environments that I did not like same warehouse look.

[Jaron Oberyn]

MajesticJazz wrote...

And not just ME1 but when you compare ME2's "illusion of size" to Jade Empire and even KOTOR, you can see how Bioware slowly begun to streamline their games to have a broader appeal to Shooter/3rd Person Action game fans.

Compare Exploring Taris to Exploring Omega
Compare Exploring Korriban to Exploring the Citadel (ME2)

You get the point.

It's a shame really. Bioware used to mean something. When you walked into the room and uttered their name, people would get chills down the back of their neck in awe of the originality and high standards of their products. Now they're trying to become like every other developer out there. They're attempting to make their games look like the other guy's, play like the other guy's, and even sound like the other guy's. I used to believe in Bioware. They were the only RPG company that would make you feel like the story was yours, and really immersed you into the universe. (Kotor, Jade, ME1, DA:O) With ME3 they have a chance to redeem themselves. Only time will tell.

-Polite

[Urazz]

scyphozoa wrote...

yup, ME2 is massive and comes on 2 discs, but because of level design, the game feels small, fragmented and claustrophobic. The heavy instancing in big cities makes places like Illium and Omega feel unnaturally small when you can't access anything other than the first 2-3 rooms. ME1 had cities and levels that felt bigger, more open and subsequently, more realistic. Noveria really felt like the appropriate size for a corporate hub, Omega and Illium feel unnaturally small for what they represent.

I think that while ME1 felt bigger in scope, it felt emptier too compared to ME2.  ME2 areas, while smaller did feel a bit fuller in content and stuff going on.  The Presidium on the Citadel in ME1 is a good example.  It felt huge on the presidium and made the citadel feel huge but it felt empty cause you didn't see all that much traffic or alot of people for such a big area.

[DJBare]

Pyrate_d wrote...

It's funny how some of you act like meaningless, repetitive tasks are enjoyable to a "true gamer," while people who want fun, fluid gameplay are the vastly inferior "shooter fanbase."

It has nothing to do with "meaningless" tasks and more to do with open ended game play, though some librarians really do enjoy their work.

Anyway, it does not have to be meaningless, ME3 could take aspects from ME1 and ME2 and improve those tasks, I was really hoping that would use a streaming engine, but it looks like they are sticking with the current engine with some improvments.