112 réponses à ce sujet

[Alarieliia]

FlintlockJazz wrote...

The council bullies the 'lesser' races because it believes it has the right to do so in order to maintain galactic harmony.  Humanity were the current favourites of the council because they were so determined and persistant, and most accepted that it was only a matter of time before they got a seat on the council, which caused ire amongst the Citadel races that didn't have seats on the council. 

True this is true.

[m4pneub08]

Tyrant Wrex wrote...

AwesomeName wrote...

Tyrant Wrex wrote...

This criticism that Earth has no place being a central locus of ME3's narrative has never been convincing to me; it always seems implicitly predicated on some bizarre notion that humanity is irrelevant in the ME universe.

-The Reapers are machines: their functional cognition is systematic. Humans = first organic race ever to consistently thwart Reaper ambitions. Earth = human homeworld. Therefore, Earth must be obliterated immediately, its a straightforward logical progression.

-Regardless, there is nothing in that trailer which suggests Earth will be the exclusive setting of the game, all it says is that it will be a setting in the game.

-Finally, this is a sci-fi opus with a human protagonist set in a galaxy where Earth not only exists, but its exponent Systems Alliance is increasingly wielding more and more influence.Its the final act of a trilogy where thus far Earth has not been visited, it would seem bizarre if it wasn't incorporated into the story in some capacity.

I'm going to be lazy and just copy and paste what I said in the trailer thread:

"I don't think this is fair really - a lot of us ARE happy to be seeing Earth - and most of us understand why the Reapers would attack: to make their (latest?) reaper and/or to stop humanity from saving the galaxy. 

That's not what most of those people I assume you're referring to are worried about.  Based on the game description, the entire game is focussed on saving Earth.  Not the galaxy.  Earth.  The first game built up the premise for the whole game - in the same way Lost established in its first episode that they had to get off the island and have an ending, ME1 established that they had to stop the Reapers from wiping out all galactic civilisation.  That's primarily what's at stake.  The whole story is about Shepard trying to stop the Reapers from doing that.  That is Shepard's raison d'etre.  It's not just about stopping them from building another reaper.

Now I know many people will argue that stopping them at Earth will mean saving the galaxy - but the problem many folk have with that is that the game will feel like we're saving Earth first, and that saving the galaxy will feel epilogueal (+100000pts for inventing new word).  I'm fine if this is just one possible playthrough of the game that's available for the renegade pro-cerberus players.  For the paragon spectres though, I think the primary, not secondary, focus should be saving the galaxy, not Earth, and that the final battle should be somewhere else, because symbolically I think this would not conflict with the original premise. AGAIN, glad as hell that Earth is apart of it, and I completely agree that it makes it more personal - but I really hope, at LEAST for the paragon pro-galaxy players, that Earth is just an initial chapter in the game, and that saving the galaxy is the primary focus, as it was in the first game."

Fair points, well formulated. Just a couple of observations:

-Its interesting that you chose Lost as the referential frame for your analogy there: seeing as how the initial setup of the pilot -getting off the Island- was NOT the ultimate endgame of the series. That's an entirely different discussion and is completely irrelevant in any case, but just thought I'd point that out to testify to the fact that the climax of a coherent narrative does not necessarily rest on the immediate conceit established in the opening act.

-Regardless of all that, I'm still utterly vexed by this objection to the primacy of Earth's presence in the narrative of the series on the most fundamental grounds. As I understand, your side is making three principal claims: a. that ME has always been about "saving the galaxy", b. that "saving the galaxy" is a mutually-exclusve endeavor distinct from saving the Earth, and c. that Earth's importance has just suddenly arbitrarily been imbibed into the story for the final act.

-But I just don't see the logical connection between these premises. First, if the Reapers are making their final assault on Earth (and again, why SHOULDN"T they? Humanity is manifestly their greatest threat, and they've already failed to infiltrate the Citadel), saving the galaxy and saving Earth are categorically correlative. That is, if saving the galaxy means stopping the Reapers, and the Reapers first major campaign is against the Earth, then the galaxy can only be saved by saving the Earth, very straightforward.

-Finally, I have to take objection straight-out to this idea that Earth really has no place being the ultimate end of the series. The opening scene of ME1 had human diplomats overlooking the Earth discussing how a human soldier could save the galaxy, followed by a textual prologue detailing humanity's discovery of the mass relay technology and its subsequent emergence as a galactic superpower. The ME trilogy has always fundamentally been a story of humanity: Shepard and TIM exemplifying the best and the worst respectively of what the species can offer (I play a full-on renegade and I still thing TIM's role as an antagonist is nearly unambiguous, but that's another discussion). Bioware has always said the ME trilogy is Shepard's story, and thus, it is humanity's story. That isn't to say the entire franchise in the futre will be centered around humanity, but for the final act of this trilogy, I think Earth is a wholly appropriate setting for the climactic last hurrah, both on narrative and symbolic merit.

I completely agree with everything said in the above post.  I had no quarrel with the trailer's approach to introducing Earth as a target for the Reapers.  Earth is vital to the success of the galaxy as a whole.  See also:  Citadel Security is now almost wholly Human after the heavey losses in the battle of the Citadel.  Humanity was left with one of the largest fleets, even after their losses, during the BOTC.  Humans are integral to the success of the galactic community, and so far, humans have been the main reason that the Reapers have not already begun their destruction of all sentient life.  Had things have worked out in their favor, the reapers would have come in through the Citadel Mass Relay back in the first game and the, in the terms used by Vigil, a long campaign to wipe out all life in the galaxy. 

It was mentioned in the first game that the Reapers would traditionally come in through the Citadel, and gather all of the star charts and information from there, and then begin their onslaught.  However, how much disarray could be caused by attacking one of the galaxy's superpowers?  The answer:  A hell of a lot.  

I feel like this game will not just be a recruiting mission,  Shepard will be using the influence and trust that has been building for 2 entire games.  This will be the big picture that says, Hey! Reapers are real, and they're seriously not ****ing around!  The game will most assuredly not take place solely on Earth, because Earth will not be obliterated in a single day, as I mentioned earlier and as ME1 clearly states, eradicating a species is HARDLY  a very quick process, especially when they're such a large military force.  

So, seeing Earth as an integral part to galactic stability, which it has clearly been, it would only make sense that the Reapers would attack an enemy that has thwarted an attack that should've occured 2 years ago, possibly more time than that will have elapsed by ME3.

Also, Tyrant Wrex, I pray that the full on renegade is not the only file you have, because the paragon path is going to be so rewarding in the final chapter.  (At least I think so)

[adam_grif]

Gibb_Shepard wrote...

I completely agree with you about ME2, but WHAT!?

The entirety of ME1 was about how humans are being SUPPRESSED by the council races. The whole game is about proving that humanity can get **** done. The council races hated humanity, they didn't wanna see them succeed at all. I think you severely misinterpreted ME1.

Nah bro, that's just what the human-centric groups want you to think. Don't listen to the lies.

The Volus, Elcor, Hanar etc have all been council races for hundreds of years, long, long before the humans, but the Humans get a seat on the council (or own the council, depending on exact circumstances) less than 40 years after joining the galactic community. Are there any Drell Spectres? Not only did Shepard become a Spectre, they even tried to get a human spectre decades ago with Anderson. That is to say, less than 10 years after making first contact, they've held out an olive branch for the Alliance to join them at the big boys table.

There are political realities to consider here - the alliance is on the fast-track for two reasons; firstly they have a substantial potential military (although it's still small at the moment, it has lots of room to grow in the future as the colonies mature), and they're competing directly with the universally loathed Batarians for space on the fringes of Citadel space. When the Alliance started encroaching on space that the Batarians considered their own, the council told the Batarians to just deal with it, which enraged them so much they left the council permanently. The council attitude to the human expansion in that region is one of; "Oh, those systems are dangerous, you better not settle there. *Wink wink nudge nudge*".

Now, the strong undercurrent of anti-human racism was present in the first game, but it was not usually blind hate without reason. The Volus and Turian officials on the Citadel disliked humans for basically the reasons I mentioned above - that the Citadel was integrating humanity into the centre stage of galactic politics at an astounding speed, and the other species think that they haven't really done anything notable to earn it yet. Individuals were often extremely anti-human, the Turian counciller and Saren in particular. But when you look at things in context, the official response to humanity from the citadel council is really quite the opposite. A lot of the time, their negative reaction to humanity complaining to them about one thing or another is coming across as "you mean, after all we've done, you want more?" 

[The Unfallen]

adam_grif wrote...

Gibb_Shepard wrote...

I completely agree with you about ME2, but WHAT!?

The entirety of ME1 was about how humans are being SUPPRESSED by the council races. The whole game is about proving that humanity can get **** done. The council races hated humanity, they didn't wanna see them succeed at all. I think you severely misinterpreted ME1.

Nah bro, that's just what the human-centric groups want you to think. Don't listen to the lies.

The Volus, Elcor, Hanar etc have all been council races for hundreds of years, long, long before the humans, but the Humans get a seat on the council (or own the council, depending on exact circumstances) less than 40 years after joining the galactic community. Are there any Drell Spectres? Not only did Shepard become a Spectre, they even tried to get a human spectre decades ago with Anderson. That is to say, less than 10 years after making first contact, they've held out an olive branch for the Alliance to join them at the big boys table.

There are political realities to consider here - the alliance is on the fast-track for two reasons; firstly they have a substantial potential military (although it's still small at the moment, it has lots of room to grow in the future as the colonies mature), and they're competing directly with the universally loathed Batarians for space on the fringes of Citadel space. When the Alliance started encroaching on space that the Batarians considered their own, the council told the Batarians to just deal with it, which enraged them so much they left the council permanently. The council attitude to the human expansion in that region is one of; "Oh, those systems are dangerous, you better not settle there. *Wink wink nudge nudge*".

Now, the strong undercurrent of anti-human racism was present in the first game, but it was not usually blind hate without reason. The Volus and Turian officials on the Citadel disliked humans for basically the reasons I mentioned above - that the Citadel was integrating humanity into the centre stage of galactic politics at an astounding speed, and the other species think that they haven't really done anything notable to earn it yet. Individuals were often extremely anti-human, the Turian counciller and Saren in particular. But when you look at things in context, the official response to humanity from the citadel council is really quite the opposite. A lot of the time, their negative reaction to humanity complaining to them about one thing or another is coming across as "you mean, after all we've done, you want more?" 

Perhaps after having their homeworld nearly destroyed, and having their asses saved by the rest of the Galaxy, Humankind's ego will drop quite a bit. Hopefully.

We can only hope Shepard has the charisma to save humanity from themselves.

[massive_effect]

I think bringing it to Earth is a reaction to COD's realism. That's what's cool now. I personally think it's a good idea.

[Jonathan Shepard]

The whole point is to save the galaxy, not just Earth. The game description worries me, as well as several others. Look, if Earth takes a Virmire/Horizon like role, where something huge goes on there, that helps, but isn't the climax, I'm cool with that. If it only takes one planet's worth of warfare to send what in ME1 were the scariest video game villains ever... then many people are going to be sorely disappointed. Being on Earth in a space opera is not cool. It's boring. The whole point of space operas is to explore space that we can only imagine... why focus on Earth, when there are so many more majestic places to explore?

[HunterX6]

kidbd15 wrote...

They set up Earth as being important from the get-go, thinking otherwise I suppose is just wishful thinking. Protheans ruins on Mars monitoring humans, vision of man with weird orb, a human destroying a Reaper, humans being most genetically diverse, etc, all equal importance of humanity, and the most important place for humanity and the most population of humanity is Earth.
I too would like to see most of the game taking places in other parts of the galaxy, but I don't mind seeing Earth either, because I have been expecting it since game 1, and got myself to look forward to it.

This, I wouldnt like it ending defending a turian colony and I am sure it involves in rallying all the races around the galaxy to repel the reapers out of earth and also to destroy them, maybe in a very mysterious and ancient place.

[Last Vizard]

Tyrant Wrex wrote...

This criticism that Earth has no place being a central locus of ME3's narrative has never been convincing to me; it always seems implicitly predicated on some bizarre notion that humanity is irrelevant in the ME universe.

-The Reapers are machines: their functional cognition is systematic. Humans = first organic race ever to consistently thwart Reaper ambitions. Earth = human homeworld. Therefore, Earth must be obliterated immediately, its a straightforward logical progression.

-Regardless, there is nothing in that trailer which suggests Earth will be the exclusive setting of the game, all it says is that it will be a setting in the game.

-Finally, this is a sci-fi opus with a human protagonist set in a galaxy where Earth not only exists, but its exponent Systems Alliance is increasingly wielding more and more influence.Its the final act of a trilogy where thus far Earth has not been visited, it would seem bizarre if it wasn't incorporated into the story in some capacity.

I agree 100% with you, I'm Human ("i'm not an alien lovin traitor" says Shepperd... "what was that?" says Tali, "nothing honey, go back to sleep" says Shep), Earth is the most important planet to me(and the floatilla), Citadel space is something Humans have to tolerate but we don't need the other races, if i have a choice between Earth or every other planet, i'm gonna choose Earth every time, the colonies are very small, Australia has a bigger population than many of them (21 000 000), if Humanity was reduced to those colonies then thats it for the human race! if pirates have the numbers to attack shepperds home world before the start of ME1 then we are F'D IN THE A! without Earth.... One of my friends saved the council because he didn't want our ego's to get too big.... I said they dug the grave they are lying in, after playing the two games many times i know for a fact that Earth is the most important world in the Galaxy.

[Last Vizard]

Sashimi_taco wrote...

I kind of regret saying I wanted earth as a place to see in ME3, because now its all in ruins. I wanted to see earth in all it's glory, and only as a side mission. Instead bioware took that and shoved it back in my face laughing.

 Yep, my friends and I all wanted to see the Golden age of Man, when i saw the trailer, i'm very pissed at the Reapers, i'm gona do things to their sensors, bad things.

[Vaenier]

Last Vizard wrote...

Sashimi_taco wrote...

I kind of regret saying I wanted earth as a place to see in ME3, because now its all in ruins. I wanted to see earth in all it's glory, and only as a side mission. Instead bioware took that and shoved it back in my face laughing.

 Yep, my friends and I all wanted to see the Golden age of Man, when i saw the trailer, i'm very pissed at the Reapers, i'm gona do things to their sensors, bad things.

Harbringer is standing on earth after destroying a bunch of buildings. Shep walks up and starts humping its leg saying "I know you feel this" and "This hurts you." Harbringer runs back to darkspace in horror.

[jayred vas normandy]

not enof info out on the game yet for all the FACTs that i see. the only thing we know for sure is that mass effect is not a game where anything happens only on one planet, (kinda pointless to have a ship if u dont go anywhere). And from the ME2 teaser U know they dont give u much to go on rigth out the gate. give it till june or so then the rantin and ravin can start.

[Jamin101]

overall i liked most of the discussion but a few posters i have to ask are you serious?



using the logic in this thread all of me2 will take place on omega or using an earlier trailer we will play as a geth.



the description on the box is for the average kid/adult/parent at the store. If it said the citadel, tuchanka, paveleon were under attack no one would know what was going on. Of course earth is going to be a major part of the advertising, it sells.



look at halo 2, you would believe the whole game would be on earth, the back of the box said you would spend the game saving earth. what happens? you spend one level in a space station, two in africa and back to exploring the galaxy you go.

[KainrycKarr]

massive_effect wrote...

I think bringing it to Earth is a reaction to COD's realism. That's what's cool now. I personally think it's a good idea.

Get out.

[beastly_divizion]

I think you're all looking at the trailer in the wrong way...It's showing that the Reapers make it to earth and invade, On a massive scale, But, And here's the crucial part; Note what the soldier says about Shepard:



"If Shepard doesn't bring help soon, There won't be an Earth left, To save."



Shepard's mission, And, By extention, The player's mission, Will be to gather an army, To save Earth...The Quarians (If you told them not to go to war with the Geth), The Geth (If you chose to rewrite the Heretics programming), The Turians, The Krogan, Cerberus (If you chose to destroy the station [Again, Backing up my argument with a quote: "Now we do things my way."], What's left of the Alliance, The list goes on.



THIS is MY prediction for ME3, Based on the little information provided from the debut trailer and from bits and pieces of ME2.

[sympathy4saren]

Oh no...aliens are attacking Earth!!!



If, and I said if, humanity and Earth are the main focus, it will utterly ruin Mass Effect for me. Furthermore, my view of Mass Effect as truly epic and THE BEST PIECE OF FICTION EVER would have been a misperception on my part.

[Alarieliia]

Vaenier wrote...

Harbringer is standing on earth after destroying a bunch of buildings. Shep walks up and starts humping its leg saying "I know you feel this" and "This hurts you." Harbringer runs back to darkspace in horror.

Ahahaha! Go Shep Go!

Modifié par Alarieliia, 24 décembre 2010 - 07:21 .

[mx3ze]

It was about time they make us go to earth. Instead of saying **** about it, assume the fact : reapers wanna RAPE humanity... and you were not mentally prepared to go on earth ? man what the **** are you eating the morning ? Take a coffee and live with it XD

[Last Vizard]

Vaenier wrote...

Last Vizard wrote...

Sashimi_taco wrote...

I kind of regret saying I wanted earth as a place to see in ME3, because now its all in ruins. I wanted to see earth in all it's glory, and only as a side mission. Instead bioware took that and shoved it back in my face laughing.

 Yep, my friends and I all wanted to see the Golden age of Man, when i saw the trailer, i'm very pissed at the Reapers, i'm gona do things to their sensors, bad things.

Harbringer is standing on earth after destroying a bunch of buildings. Shep walks up and starts humping its leg saying "I know you feel this" and "This hurts you." Harbringer runs back to darkspace in horror.

LOL ok not what i had in mind.... but if it gets the job done---- (fast forwad to the end of ME3, using this doll show us where the Human touched you)

[Gabey5]

shepard is human, you moron. of course earth will be important.

[Winterfly]

The reapers will get the hardest time ever, hopefully the Council really start to take the threat seriouls when there been a derelict reaper, collectors and ****.



We got Rachni, united geth and united krogans (If you did those picks) And they are prolly pretty pissed off.

[Jedi Master of Orion]

I never cared for Earth being as significant as the trailer implies it will be. Because quite honestly the stakes for saving one planet, even our own, aren't really that high in the grand scheme. The stakes of saving everyone, everywhere are. ME 1 really made the the threat of the Reapers appear very large scale.



Every being on every planet in the known galaxy was saved from death by stopping Sovereign from opening the relay.



If the premise is that only mankind is in direct danger and the Reapers will just get to the other races afterward... then that's really not much of a crisis compared to what Saren and Vigil made it out to be in the first game. If the Reapers are attacking Earth, that's really terrible. But if they are attacking everyone then it's "The end of everything."



That said, we still have only speculation from a brief description and a 1 minutes trailer. I have to admit that attacking Earth would actually be a good place to start ME 3; just not a good place to end it (at least not without doing more).



I'm hoping that sense of certain doom will be spread from Earth to every species in the galaxy before the game is over.

[88mphSlayer]

i hope they keep the theme of earth being a crowded ghetto, and that nobody else really wants to save it

[Slayer299]

Why?

[88mphSlayer]

Slayer299 wrote...

Why?

keeps things interesting, it's the opposite of Mass Effect 1 where humans were reluctant about the citadel and the alien council but came in to save the day anyways, this time it's just the humans being targeted and it's a homeworld where aliens might want to preserve their fleets if the reapers move on from earth because it's not worth saving a ghetto planet, so you have to convince everybody and etc.

[marshalleck]

All this freaking out about Earth being the focus of ME3 reminds me of the drama surrounding ME2's teaser, and the hundreds of threads flaming/crying/gnashing teeth at Bioware because they "lied" about Mass Effect being Shepard's story, because Shepard was officially, certifiably, confirmed to be dead and would no longer be the protagonist.

Modifié par marshalleck, 24 décembre 2010 - 05:04 .