245 réponses à ce sujet

[ObserverStatus]

saMOOrai182 wrote...

Am i the Only one that Plays New Vegas and Fallout 3 in 3rd person?

And An RPG/FPS mix can work. it has in the past, take borderlands for example.

ya, managing the camera in that game is too much of a pain, i usually do it in first person.

[sympathy4saren]

(Holds head)

Loveydovy, as previously mentioned, any time spent on first-person, by default, takes time away from time that could be spent on rpg elements. It is as close to a logical axiom as you can get to, and exposes series holes in your argument.

Do you have a sophisticated argument? Or do you just unleash massive waves of ad hominems in any direction that is contradictory to your perspective?

Modifié par sympathy4saren, 23 décembre 2010 - 06:56 .

[Ghost Lightning]

Dr. Heart wrote...


Not all FPS are bad.  Oblivion and Fallout are some of my favorite games, but I really don't want to ever see a Mass Effect FPS. 

Could not agree more (except I never really got into Fallout). ME is just not made to be viewed in first person.

[Jaron Oberyn]

Ms. Lovey Dovey wrote...

@PoliteAssasian I am relaxed. How could you know anything of my tone. Perhaps if I added a smiley face? But when we start talking about EA threads tend to get locked.

Yeah, but since it was a moderator who inquired about it I figured it would be alright to provide additional information on the subject the discussion. I in no way intended progress the matter beyond that. 

-Polite

[Fortlowe]

I don't think this is the end of Mass Effect. I don't even fully believe ME3 marks the end of Shep's narrative. We are approaching the end of the current console cycle. Bioware is very aware of this. A new console will profoundly broaden what Bioware will be able to do with Mass Effect. Consider, the gameplay mechanics we take for granted on videogames now, that simply were not possible on the previous generation of consoles. Having a robust understanding of the mechanics invloved with shooters, and platformers and openworld games will similarly broaden the things Bioware can do with Mass Effect and Dragon Age and Jade Empire, not to mention brand new IP's.

EA's backing of BW is a very good thing in my opinion. Bioware seems to have carte blanche to do whatever they like and they have the budget to pull it off. From my observation, the only pressure EA is applying to BW is to get thier games out faster. From a consumer perspective, this is a good thing.

I'm reminded of Zelda: Ocirina of Time. The man behind that game had made games from many different genres and applied all of that experience into making this materpiece that is still the golden standard for adventure RPG's, if not videogames in general. For Bioware to pull a coup like that, basically revolutionizing the industry (and I think they can), they will have to branch out into other genres.

Modifié par Fortlowe, 23 décembre 2010 - 06:39 .

[Pacifien]

archurban wrote...

Pacifien wrote...
Holy ****, when did EA buy out BioWare?!

haha didn't you know that?

Actually, I would think people would know that I know that already.

I am well aware of EA's reputation considering my first computer game fan experience was with the Ultima series. Sad tale, that one. Doesn't change the fact that I believe developers desire to produce games that they themselves wish to play. When something gets in the way of that, well, I have seen many game developers fall and rise over the years. I know the signs of doom and gloom and I have yet to see such signs at BioWare. Do I think they are immune? No, but I certainly didn't feel ME2 was the first step of their downfall.

[ObserverStatus]

sympathy4saren wrote...

(Hold head)

Loveydovy, as previously mentioned, any time spent on first-person, by default, takes time away from time that could be spent on rpg elements. It is as close to a logical axiom as you can get to, and exposes series holes in your argument.

Do you have a sophisticated argument? Or do you just unleash massive waves of ad hominems in any direction that is contradictory to your perspective?

As Bethseda proved, rpg elements and first person mode are not mutually exclusive.  Your argument is invalid.

[Tiax Rules All]

sympathy4saren wrote...

(Hold head)

Loveydovy, as previously mentioned, any time spent on first-person, by default, takes time away from time that could be spent on rpg elements. It is as close to a logical axiom as you can get to, and exposes series holes in your argument.

Do you have a sophisticated argument? Or do you just unleash massive waves of ad hominems in any direction that is contradictory to your perspective?

This post makes me angry, your arguement is stupid and and you should feel stupid for posting it

that is all.

[Dr. Heart]

Tiax Rules All wrote...

This post makes me angry, your arguement is stupid and and you should feel stupid for posting it

that is all.

Makes me angry too.  How come his arguement is so dumb?  He should make smart arguement because then his arguement wouldn't be so bad.

arguement. 

[sympathy4saren]

@ Pacifien:



Fair points, but isn't the expectation of specific elements to fit a mold, in this case the rpg genre, the very essence of economic demand?

[Bourne Endeavor]

Ms. Lovey Dovey wrote...

Bourne Endeavor wrote...

Ms. Lovey Dovey wrote...

@sympathy4saren

You must hate what BioWare's been doing lately according to your views then. Don't buy there games. I still will. 1st person or NOT.

While you are certainly entitled to your opinion. I find a post of this nature close to blind fanboy/girling. You make it sound as though Bioware is above error and that regardless of what is implemented in ME3. They will have your purchase. If that is the case, so be it, but you must respect many will disagree.

A little out of context. Actually way out of context. I can see where you are coming from but common sense would tell you that I'm not making BioWare a god.......

I was stating in a way that I will still buy ME3 even if they don't include 1st person.

I suppose, although usually when I hear similar statements like this, it is in regards of a "Bioware cannot be wrong!" viewpoint. So you will forgive my jumping to conclusions, aye?

Pacifien wrote...

An FPS could have just as compelling a
storyline with a diverse cast of characters as the best RPGs. If they
don't, it's because people expect an FPS to fit a mold and cry foul if
it doesn't. The same goes for people who want their RPGs to fit a
certain mold. Expectations to fit the genre are what kill innovation in
game design.

Indeed on both accounts. What I surmise is a contributing, if not, the main factor however is funding and time. FPS games are in a nigh demand for an annual release and this generally weakens the ability to branch outward from the confined restrictions of each genre. Granted, if people had patience may not be as much an issue. So your point stands.

Arguing the profit margin is a tad more messy. Companies fancy a fast income and who could blame? A year release of certain highly profiled games is guaranteed profit. It unfortunately leads to a saturated market.

[Jaron Oberyn]

Pacifien wrote...

archurban wrote...

Pacifien wrote...
Holy ****, when did EA buy out BioWare?!

haha didn't you know that?

Actually, I would think people would know that I know that already.

I am well aware of EA's reputation considering my first computer game fan experience was with the Ultima series. Sad tale, that one. Doesn't change the fact that I believe developers desire to produce games that they themselves wish to play. When something gets in the way of that, well, I have seen many game developers fall and rise over the years. I know the signs of doom and gloom and I have yet to see such signs at BioWare. Do I think they are immune? No, but I certainly didn't feel ME2 was the first step of their downfall.

I'll be honest I thought you were joking at first when you freaked out about that. I thought everyone knew that. 
It was a sad day for gamers. 

-Polite

[archurban]

I am well aware of EA's reputation considering my first computer game fan experience was with the Ultima series. Sad tale, that one. Doesn't change the fact that I believe developers desire to produce games that they themselves wish to play. When something gets in the way of that, well, I have seen many game developers fall and rise over the years. I know the signs of doom and gloom and I have yet to see such signs at BioWare. Do I think they are immune? No, but I certainly didn't feel ME2 was the first step of their downfall.

yeah, that's why Bioware has to be more catious their future behind success 2010. I believe that they know the situation, and where they should go without confliction like Activision and Infinity ward. I hope that Bioware will have a long life, and become strong cult like Apple does.

[Pacifien]

sympathy4saren wrote...
Fair points, but isn't the expectation of specific elements to fit a mold, in this case the rpg genre, the very essence of economic demand?

Fortunate then that the development process is not black and white and certainly not a case of majority rules.

Not to say things couldn't be developed using economics as the driving force, but I do give BioWare the benefit of the doubt. But I also have the benefit of not having been disappointed by them, I suppose. I am aware that others feel otherwise.

[KMYash]

 Please read thoroughly before any claim of bashing/flaming/general hate


I think that in the last decade there has been a lot of pain for hardcore fans of any fanbase. I hold my head in shame as I looked at the article about the 'new, more Edward Cullen like Superman' and the comic book movies. Sure, I enjoyed plenty of the movies that were comic based but I had to remove myself as a comic fan when watching them. The problem is that many are just trying to make more money. I'm not saying that an FPS ME or any FPS is out there just to swindle you out of your cash but there are some games that use more popular aspects for that money making possibility. What the people who do that tend to forget, is that they had a loyal fanbase because of what they had and not what others had. Sure, maybe the fan will continue buying from the company for a while but eventually there is going to be a good portion of people that give up on the company. Isolating fans in order to see if you can draw in new ones isn't the greatest idea IMO.

I doubt anyone (who isn't trolling) can say that Bioware ever trying to do an FPS series/standalone is hell on earth. The problem that I think most people have is that they invested in a series because it met a series of criteria for something they wanted. If the series gets too far from that original list then the fans will leave unhappy from the series. People don't want their RPG series to become an FPS on the third game. 

As I said in a post earlier I personally don't want FPS. They frustrated me and in some cases I get dizzy playing them. As such I avoid them. 

In simplest terms if someone bought a carton of chocolate icecream and opened it up to find vanilla they might not be happy. Both are loved by many people and both can be disliked by many people. But the person who buys the same brand all the time and expects one thing may be rather unhappy with the change.

People are afraid of a sellout world.

[Element_Zero]

Merry mother of . . . . .  Peeps step back from the table and drink some spiked nog (egg nog) . . . not enough burbon in it? Well if I could I would offer ya some of mine!

I totally understand the nervousness, the 1 & 2 were very much fun. Thus I must ponder the various logical arguments.

*sighs*  Actually just figured I'd try to lighten up folks. .  I prolly wasn't successful for most part, but in truth we all want a successful fun game at the end.

Ok my opinion on going first vs third (I guess I should say something) view points respectfully.

Pros:  First dose bring you some advanages in some ways, when you toss a power it allows you to do so with out hitting other cover for example. Or in shooting around certain strange angles some of us find ourselves in from time to time. You have a tendency to focus your fire a bit more. In tight spaces such as narrow halls and at small door openings it puts you at a advantage by the way.

Cons:  But it also brings you down to a lower viewpoint and puts you at a bit of a disadvantage in open battle spaces or wide coverage incomming enemies - swarming. Especially if the enemy AI pathing is set up to flank or surround you (which largely depends on how much awareness the programmers put into them or how much pre-pathing is done.) Or if they take the time to set up a few different or multiple pathing in the AI. (think of pathing like chess folks - only the programmers are predicting your moves.) But basically it dose reduce your abilty to see around you.

That said it might make controlling your AI squadmates really difficult as well. . . (I find myself often times behind them, just to make sure they -  A. followed my command and took cover  B. are actually firing back at the enemy and nothing is blocking their fire C. making sure they go back into cover if they do something that causing them to hang up or pop out of cover. (sry found problems with Jacob sometimes and his 'Pull' ability, but I'm going off topic.) D. if I use them to focus fire they are actually firing on that target.)

But again that all depends on how you play your own team . . And rather you play your Shepard more as a brawler or from a distance (playstyle - kiting, camping, etc. . . ) or even involve your AI squad in your battles at all.

One could argue a few more pros or cons, but the programming team has done a very, very good job with the camera angles in this game. . . Given the tightness of various areas I'm a bit surprised how well it turned out in both the 1st and 2nd ME's! There are some games out there that are just ruined by third person perspective, and this one is acually one of my favorites in third.

Ok this is a bit off topic, but I think they could do a few more enviromental effects in some missions (yea I know it's grafix heavy) maybe even introduce some futuristic vision (think NVG or themal or something exotic (on or off at the player's leasure)) or something, but anyway I'm wondering off topic yet again.

And yea I often times find my self wondering what it's like to look down some of those AR sights during a battle from time to time!

I also understand the raw fear out there with folks trying to turn this game into something they liked with someother franchise. *whispers* I share that fear as well. . . BTW.


(sry had to do some editing!)

Modifié par Element_Zero, 23 décembre 2010 - 06:58 .

[sympathy4saren]

Halo is a cesspool. Gonna tell me I can't say it?



My argument is flawless. If devs in Oblivion made it only first person or third person, then time not spent on one of the perspectives could have been used to make the map even larger, or the like. Why is this concept difficult to grasp?



A first person perspective, even if it was optional and not used, would create an entire new perspective of the entire IP.



RANK: Big Boss



"Mission aborted, sir."

[sympathy4saren]

I haven't been disappointed yet, either. I love ME2.

[Ghost Lightning]

sympathy4saren wrote...

Halo is a cesspool. Gonna tell me I can't say it?

No, but the millions of people playing Halo online might...

[timj2011]

bro's and bra's, how bout we just chill a bit, Mass Effect isn't gonna have 1st person, interesting idea, but would never happen because it simply shifts the basis of the franchise too much. It, will, not, happen.

on a side note, ME is still an RPG, if not in its truest form.
bull**** rpg - umm... hi, im commander sheppard and have unlimited resources from the alliance, let me just crab this armor out of this crate, oh, and that armor to, ok, maybe that one as well, oh look, i have 800 sets of armor, this makes me fell like i truly am the character.

correct rpg - oh look, im having a conversation and i get to choose what to say, different things happen, my story, look, i am "playing the role" of commander Shepard to my liking

That is all.

in case my previous statements are slighly convoluted, i am knocking the whole "no inventory, NOT RPG" way of viewing things, if classes and xp disapear, then we have a different problem on our hands

Modifié par timj2011, 23 décembre 2010 - 07:03 .

[Jaron Oberyn]

Ghost Lightning wrote...

sympathy4saren wrote...

Halo is a cesspool. Gonna tell me I can't say it?

No, but the millions of people playing Halo online might...

Not to help steer this off topic, but you do realize that Bungie fans hate Halo Reach right? So he's actually correct in a sense. 

-Polite

[ObserverStatus]

sympathy4saren wrote...

Halo is a cesspool. Gonna tell me I can't say it?

I won't say you can't, but i will say you shouldn't. Trolling the fans is just going to get you into trouble. (I should know )

Modifié par bobobo878, 23 décembre 2010 - 07:01 .