175 réponses à ce sujet

[DraCZeQQ]

Midey77 wrote...

According one review, female rouge had her brother in team (Bethany wasn't mentioned).

Either this is a very very very bad joke ... OR we seriously need the toolset to fix all this stupid non-sense ...

[upsettingshorts]

I think it is:

* Do you save Aveline and husband or not? If No, Aveline does not survive. If Yes, move to next step.
* What is your class? If you are a warrior or rogue, Bethany survives. If you are a mage, Carver survives.

If it works like that, it does involve character choice in addition to player choice. It shows that being the good guy comes with a pricetag. Which in general is something I welcome.  Two of the three potential allies makes it out of there, but I will absolutely applaud DA2 if it turns out it's just an early way of showing the player that in this game you're not always going to be able to save everyone.

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 23 décembre 2010 - 11:48 .

[DraCZeQQ]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

I think it is:

* Do you save Aveline and husband or not? If No, Aveline does not survive. If Yes, move to next step.
* What is your class? If you are a warrior or rogue, Bethany survives. If you are a mage, Carver survives.

If it works like that, it does involve character choice in addition to player choice. It shows that being the good guy comes with a pricetag. Which in general is something I welcome.

so its Aveline dies and Bethany lives? whoa that would be pretty much win-win scenario ... but in the combat video there is aveline AND Bethany together

[upsettingshorts]

DraCZeQQ wrote...

but in the combat video there is aveline AND Bethany together

Hawke is a rogue.  Carver is dead.

So what that means, I imagine, is that Hawke in particular chose to try and help Aveline and her husband.  As a result, one of his siblings doesn't make it out of there.  Because that Hawke is a rogue, the sibling that buys the farm is Carver.

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 23 décembre 2010 - 11:51 .

[HolyJellyfish]

DraCZeQQ wrote...

I agree that the choice should be made by player and not the game mechanics ... nevertheless I will always choose Bethany, since she is the only cute NPC in the whole game ... *sigh*

You don't know that yet. Not everyone has been revealed. And I doubt its just going to be six companions.

[DraCZeQQ]

HolyJellyfish wrote...

DraCZeQQ wrote...

I agree that the choice should be made by player and not the game mechanics ... nevertheless I will always choose Bethany, since she is the only cute NPC in the whole game ... *sigh*

You don't know that yet. Not everyone has been revealed. And I doubt its just going to be six companions.

Well from what was hinted on these forums by Bioware, that Isabel is new Morrigan and one can assume that Aveline is new Lelianna (red head, can die in first encounter, ...) ... and I fear they are serious about that, so I have to voice my concerns as paying long term supporting customer =)

[upsettingshorts]

DraCZeQQ wrote...

Well from what was hinted on these forums by Bioware, that Isabel is new Morrigan

It's been confirmed that you don't even have to talk to Isabela during the course of DA2.  And you have to talk to her if you want to recruit her.  So... yeah, she ain't the Morrigan of DA2.  Her recruitment - at least in the leaked videos and based on developer comments - reminds me a little of Sten's. 

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 23 décembre 2010 - 12:02 .

[HolyJellyfish]

I personally wouldn't whittle the characters down as the New Morrigan and New Aveline, especially since Isabela reminds me more of Zevran and Aveline... doesn't particularly remind me of anyone. At all.



And I haven't heard hints about Aveline in particular. I'm still keeping my ear very open.

[Ruby Tabris]

What is this wrote...

Ruby Tabris wrote...

Ms. Lovey Dovey wrote...

Carver FTW. Torture NOT included! I've been hearing rumors of being able to keep them both though.....

So have I but I really want some solid evidence not just fan speculation.
Honestly I just don't want to have to choose between them, they both look like great characters.

I think they'll largley be the same character.
Kinda like Mornith and Samar if you played ME2

Mornith and Samara were really different. They looked similar but then again most asari do. Still I see what your saying. It's like in Mass Effect 2 we had 13 potential companionsbut we could only ever get up to 12.

[tishyw]

Ruby Tabris wrote...

uknowitbeb wrote...

Both of your siblings can survive (I think), if you look at the rise to power video you can clearly see Hawke running with Both his siblings, in what looks like the city of, Kirkwall.

There's a good chance that, that is because the opposing sibling has yet to die, and will do so in Kirkwall. But... here's hoping there's a way to do that without losing Aveline as a tank to Carver.

the death, if it happens takes place when you're fleeting from Lothering, so by Kirkwall one or the other of them should already be dead.  The fact that we have game play footage of both of them with Hawke suggests to me that there is a third option that we don't know about yet.  It could be the rumored leaving behind of Aveline and Wesley, or it could be something else.

[Collider]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

I think it is:

* Do you save Aveline and husband or not? If No, Aveline does not survive. If Yes, move to next step.
* What is your class? If you are a warrior or rogue, Bethany survives. If you are a mage, Carver survives.

If it works like that, it does involve character choice in addition to player choice. It shows that being the good guy comes with a pricetag. Which in general is something I welcome.  Two of the three potential allies makes it out of there, but I will absolutely applaud DA2 if it turns out it's just an early way of showing the player that in this game you're not always going to be able to save everyone.

That's better than just class, but it's still not good.

[crimzontearz]

I still hope it turns out bethany is really only your stepsister.....

[uknowitbeb]

tishyw wrote...

Ruby Tabris wrote...

uknowitbeb wrote...

Both of your siblings can survive (I think), if you look at the rise to power video you can clearly see Hawke running with Both his siblings, in what looks like the city of, Kirkwall.

There's a good chance that, that is because the opposing sibling has yet to die, and will do so in Kirkwall. But... here's hoping there's a way to do that without losing Aveline as a tank to Carver.

the death, if it happens takes place when you're fleeting from Lothering, so by Kirkwall one or the other of them should already be dead.  The fact that we have game play footage of both of them with Hawke suggests to me that there is a third option that we don't know about yet.  It could be the rumored leaving behind of Aveline and Wesley, or it could be something else.

I hope that is the case, but alotta people are starting to say that now, so it might be true.

[Tinxa]

Or the videos are not what happens in the game. I'm sure the devs can put any partymember in the pary at anytime. They could have just artificially put Carver and Bethany together for the video because they weren't ready to show new companions yet.

[Arteziya]

Carver. He's just too adorable, in a derpy way.

[Inzhuna]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

I think it is:

* Do you save Aveline and husband or not? If No, Aveline does not survive. If Yes, move to next step.
* What is your class? If you are a warrior or rogue, Bethany survives. If you are a mage, Carver survives.

I would really love if this is how it happens.

Also, I hope the class-based choice of who survives will be grounded/explained in the story. Somehow.

[ISpeakTheTruth]

So the sibling that survives is going to be based on what class you are? That's lame. I want to choice which one lives based on what I'd like no because the game wants some kind of balance.



I hope this is wrong because if it is than this is a horrible way to start a game.

[Alodar]

It's party-balance/story-hook  pure and simple.

If you're a mage you get a warrior to travel with.
If you're a rogue/warrior you get a mage to travel with.
And either way there is an apostate mage (you or Bethany) that ups the stakes in the Templar/Mage contreversy that is central to the story.

Killing off a family member in the cut scene is a story device.
They killed Gorion in Baldur's Gate.
You're entire family was killed and then your village burnt down in Jade Empire.
In DAO, depending on your Origin lots of family members died.

They've done it before, they'll do it again.
It has nothing to do with trial and error, it is a simply a story device.

In this case they've improved the device because now it to adds to the game's replayability.

Alodar

[ISpeakTheTruth]

How our party is balanced is our choice. If I want four mages on my party or four warrirors on my party that's my choice and I shouldn't be penalized because the Devs what some silling think like 'party-balance'



Heck if they're so concerned about that why not make it if you're a mage than you can never have another mage on your team? Or if you're a warriror heck than you won't need another on your party so you can't pick another for your team.

[Alodar]

ISpeakTheTruth wrote...

How our party is balanced is our choice. If I want four mages on my party or four warrirors on my party that's my choice and I shouldn't be penalized because the Devs what some silling think like 'party-balance'

No it's not.
You get to choose out of the party members available to you.

If you choose a mage Bethany is not available to you (nor was Gorion in Baldur's Gate)
If you choose a warrior/rogue Carver is not available to you (nor was your brother in the Dwarf noble Origin)


In Origins if you were a mage when you went to take the tower of Ishtal the two guards who joined you and Allistar were warriors. If you were a warrior/rogue one of them was a mage. Did that somehow take choice away from you?

In fact you only know about this because of a spoiler in a review. In the actual game one of your family members will die, like they have in a lot of BioWare games, and you will choose your party from who is ever available.

Alodar

[Shady314]

[quote]Alodar wrote...
No it's not.
You get to choose out of the party members available to you.
[/quote]
And making the choices available to you be based on your class is stupid.

[quote]
If you choose a mage Bethany is not available to you (nor was Gorion in Baldur's Gate)
If you choose a warrior/rogue Carver is not available to you (nor was your brother in the Dwarf noble Origin)
[/quote]
Your examples are atrocious. Gorion and your dwarf bro never had full companion status. Both Carver and Bethany seemingly do. NO one gets Gorion as a companion. But some people will get Carver and some will get Beth. See the difference?

[quote]In Origins if you were a mage when you went to take the tower of Ishtal the two guards who joined you and Allistar were warriors. If you were a warrior/rogue one of them was a mage. Did that somehow take choice away from you?[/quote]
Same terrible example as Gorion.

[quote]In fact you only know about this because of a spoiler in a review. In the actual game one of your family members will die, like they have in a lot of BioWare games, and you will choose your party from who is ever available.
Alodar [/quote]
The fact that they hid the stupid mechanic does not make the mechanic any less stupid.


[/quote]

[Gill Kaiser]

If the option exists to sacrifice Aveline to save both siblings, I don't have any problem with the system. In fact, I applaud it. It would seem to add to player choice rather than diminish it, were that the case.



It would also mean that players who have no interest in playing a mage would still have the option of experiencing Carver's character, and mage players could likewise get to know Bethany.

[upsettingshorts]

Shady314 wrote...

And making the choices available to you be based on your class is stupid.

So I went back and skimmed the last couple pages to see if you had proposed an alternative.  Unless I missed something, you haven't. 

If the mechanic is stupid, why not propose an alternative that - in your opinion - would accomplish the same goals in a way you view isn't "stupid."

[Shady314]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

Shady314 wrote...

And making the choices available to you be based on your class is stupid.

So I went back and skimmed the last couple pages to see if you had proposed an alternative.  Unless I missed something, you haven't. 

If the mechanic is stupid, why not propose an alternative that - in your opinion - would accomplish the same goals in a way you view isn't "stupid."

Your Aveline idea is fine.
Also forum rules don't stipulate that to complain you must offer an alternative. If you want to see what I do in games you'd have to play in my tabletop game. I'm not going to waste my energy on something too late to change even if Bio wanted to which they clearly do not.
EDIT: Not just fine. Great even. I wish Bio had done that instead.

Modifié par Shady314, 24 décembre 2010 - 01:41 .

[ISpeakTheTruth]

Shady314 has already expressed what I was going to say so I feel no need to repeat it. I will say that taking choice away from you when you have a game that is suppose to be all about choice is foolish. It would be just as bad if you were a mage in DA:O and because of that you would never have Morrigan, Or if you're a warriror than you'd never have Alistair, Or if a rogue nope sorry no Liliana for you.

This is a horrible mechanic that I hope is changed before the game starts out because if it doesn't than the game will have stumbled before even gets started.

Edit: Here is a better idea if you decide to save Alevine (SP) then you should be able to choice which sibling you want to die in the game. There that's nice a easy and it wouldn't be near as horrible as the mechanic that's been put in the game.

Modifié par ISpeakTheTruth, 24 décembre 2010 - 01:40 .