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[Glorfindel709]

Definite saving life: HN, DC, DE, CE, DN.



Saves you from Gregoir deciding that you're a maleficar willingly helping a blood mage as the Magi.



yeah, all 6.

[psychocandy]

doesnt save your life as a DN or a HN



so...no not all 6

[Persephone]

psychocandy wrote...

doesnt save your life as a DN or a HN

so...no not all 6

DN would have died in the Deep Roads without Duncan. HN would have died at Highever without Duncan. Correct me, if I am wrong.

[iVodka]

The DN and HN die if Duncan never encounters them.



DN dies in the Deep Roads and HN is most likely killed by Howe if Duncan is not there. So he does save the Warden’s life no matter what origin you play.

[IanPolaris]

Not necessarily the mage origin, however. If you aided Irving, the only thing that Duncan saves you is a short period of protective custody while Gregoire investigates Iriving's claim (that you assisted him). Later on when you meet Gregoire, he freely admits that he can't fault you for following your superior's orders (since obviously that's what he expects from his own knights).



That said, I think the canon (if you aren't a mage) is that Jowan's friend did not tell Irving...in which case, the Templars add another corpse to the pile as Morrigan would so charmingly put it.



-Polaris

[MKDAWUSS]

Persephone wrote...

psychocandy wrote...

doesnt save your life as a DN or a HN

so...no not all 6

DN would have died in the Deep Roads without Duncan. HN would have died at Highever without Duncan. Correct me, if I am wrong.

HN is questionable - he (or she) may have been able to escape without Duncan's assistance. DN is doubtful - may have died unless he (or she) managed to advance to a LOTD outpost.

Speaking of the HN, is that the unidentified body on the separate torture rack in Fort Drakon?

[MKDAWUSS]

IanPolaris wrote...

Not necessarily the mage origin, however. If you aided Irving, the only thing that Duncan saves you is a short period of protective custody while Gregoire investigates Iriving's claim (that you assisted him). Later on when you meet Gregoire, he freely admits that he can't fault you for following your superior's orders (since obviously that's what he expects from his own knights).

That said, I think the canon (if you aren't a mage) is that Jowan's friend did not tell Irving...in which case, the Templars add another corpse to the pile as Morrigan would so charmingly put it.

-Polaris

There's also Uldred's abominations to consider.

[IanPolaris]

MKDAWUSS wrote...

IanPolaris wrote...

Not necessarily the mage origin, however. If you aided Irving, the only thing that Duncan saves you is a short period of protective custody while Gregoire investigates Iriving's claim (that you assisted him). Later on when you meet Gregoire, he freely admits that he can't fault you for following your superior's orders (since obviously that's what he expects from his own knights).

That said, I think the canon (if you aren't a mage) is that Jowan's friend did not tell Irving...in which case, the Templars add another corpse to the pile as Morrigan would so charmingly put it.

-Polaris

There's also Uldred's abominations to consider.

True, but those happen after Ostagar I thought.  It's quite likely that without Duncan, your mage would wind up being in the wrong place at the wrong time with regard to Uldred's revolt and die that way, but since no one sees that coming, I don't think you can give Duncan the credit for "saving" you from that.

-Polaris

[JasmoVT]

I find Duncan's choice to select Jory, a person clearly lacking any quality making him fit as a Grey Warden, as clear evidence Duncan was grotesquely incompetent and his death is the only thing that saved Ferelden. If such an incompetent had remained at the head of the Grey Wardens all would have been lost.

[IanPolaris]

JasmoVT wrote...

I find Duncan's choice to select Jory, a person clearly lacking any quality making him fit as a Grey Warden, as clear evidence Duncan was grotesquely incompetent and his death is the only thing that saved Ferelden. If such an incompetent had remained at the head of the Grey Wardens all would have been lost.

I disagree.  I got the impression that at the end Duncan was desperate for recruits and apparently Ser Jory was the winner of a tourney for the right to be considered for recruitment.   In short, Duncan might not have had a lot of options considering the need and short time available.  Also watch Ser Jory carefully in and out of the presence of Duncan.  In the presence of Duncan he seems fine.  You only see his cowardice when Duncan is not in earshot.  I point as a counterexample to Daveth who I think would have made a fine Grey Warden had he survived the joining.  Apparently it's as much dumb luck as anything if you survive or not survive.

-Polaris

[psychocandy]

HN- already made it to the escape in the larder without Duncan's help, all Duncan does is offer you the wardens, or forces you to join, no reason you cant leave without Duncan



DN- exile to the deep roads doesnt automatically mean death



you could be perdantic and include the DE in the equation, as all Duncan does for the DE is extend his/her life by 30 or so years



so ill stand by my earlier post

[IanPolaris]

psychocandy,



While I agree with your earlier point overall, I will quibble with you about the HN part. We know (if you play a non-human warden) that the HN dies if Duncan is not there, and it's not hard to see why. Even though you make it to the secret passage in the larder without Duncan's help, Howe has an entire army patrolling the perimeter of the castle very carefully, and these are seasoned and alert troops. I'd say that the chance of you evading them on your own is virtually nil. With Duncan, the two of you could probably defeat any number up to a large squad or so which makes evasion much easier.



As for the DN, I agree that exile is not automatic death, but about the only place you could go (before being swarmed by darkspawn) would be a LotD outpost and if your DN joins the LotD, he may as well be dead for all intents and purposes.



-Polaris

[Ollymandias]

For one, even I, a rookie, knew the moment I met Ser Jory that he should never have been recruited. I FACEPALMED that Duncan took the risk of letting Daveth go first, rather than Jory!!

Yeah, seriously.

Even better, why not bring a few cups with you and make all the recruits drink at the same time? It would make the Joining a much less potentially stressful situation for everyone involved.

Duncan knows that if everybody knew they might die in the joining, they'd never get any recruits, and a war on the Wardens would also take place most probably.

Duncan keeps all his cards close to his chest. He does a remarkably poor job at educating those under his care as to the reasons for things and the risks they are taking. He never told the Grey Wardens under his care and tutelage about why GWs are needed to end the Blight, as we know from Alistair's utter ignorance in that area. (Alternatively, Alistair could have just failed to pay attention and keep up with his required reading, which is also plausible considering Alistair.)

I don't think that being less deceptive and conniving about the risks involved in the Joining would mean the GWs got no recruits. Death row recruits like brave Daveth wouldn't be put off. Those who are leaving a horrible life behind for a better one (City Elves, Dust Town dwarves etc) might not be put off either. Those who have a strong ideological push to do battle against the Blight could also take the risk.

[psychocandy]

IanPolaris wrote...

psychocandy,

While I agree with your earlier point overall, I will quibble with you about the HN part. We know (if you play a non-human warden) that the HN dies if Duncan is not there, and it's not hard to see why. Even though you make it to the secret passage in the larder without Duncan's help, Howe has an entire army patrolling the perimeter of the castle very carefully, and these are seasoned and alert troops. I'd say that the chance of you evading them on your own is virtually nil. With Duncan, the two of you could probably defeat any number up to a large squad or so which makes evasion much easier.

As for the DN, I agree that exile is not automatic death, but about the only place you could go (before being swarmed by darkspawn) would be a LotD outpost and if your DN joins the LotD, he may as well be dead for all intents and purposes.

-Polaris

i agree,  but the only 2(3) origins he plays a direct role in saving your life is DC and the Mage origins

but i think ive done this to death now

[MKDAWUSS]

IanPolaris wrote...

While I agree with your earlier point overall, I will quibble with you about the HN part. We know (if you play a non-human warden) that the HN dies if Duncan is not there, and it's not hard to see why. Even though you make it to the secret passage in the larder without Duncan's help, Howe has an entire army patrolling the perimeter of the castle very carefully, and these are seasoned and alert troops. I'd say that the chance of you evading them on your own is virtually nil. With Duncan, the two of you could probably defeat any number up to a large squad or so which makes evasion much easier.

-Polaris

Someone might want to double-check this, but I think there's an unidentified body on the torture rack (opposite the pile of corpses that include Gilmore and Mallol) that looks like it might be the HN (the obvious exception to this would be if the selected Warden is a HN).

I'll be curious to know how Duncan was the significant factor in the HN's escape. 2 people wouldn't stand that much of an additional chance against an army than just 1. If it's E&E, the fewer people you have, the better your chances of not being noticed. Also, I think the HN knows his way around the castle grounds a lot better than Duncan.

[IanPolaris]

MKDAWUSS wrote...

I'll be curious to know how Duncan was the significant factor in the HN's escape. 2 people wouldn't stand that much of an additional chance against an army than just 1. If it's E&E, the fewer people you have, the better your chances of not being noticed. Also, I think the HN knows his way around the castle grounds a lot better than Duncan.

Simple.  Duncan is something like 12th level or so (guessing but seems plausible) while you are third level.  That means you can take on a small squad and win quickly with him while without him, even one or two soldiers seeing you is probably the death of you.

-Polaris