16 réponses à ce sujet

[Dmaster292]

 Do I need to harden Leliana to settle down with her? I asked on another board for Dragon Age and they said yes but the Dragon Age wiki contradicts this. 

Thanks

[Xilizhra]

If she's your LI, no (unless you married Alistair/Anora and want to keep her as your mistress).

[Dmaster292]

Nope, hopefully will be sure of love interest after her quest (next thing to do) and I'm hoping to put Alistair on the throne (having hardened him) with Anora and Loghain as a grey warden. Thanks for the quick reply!

[Xilizhra]

That'll work. You don't plan on hardening her, then?



And my pleasure.

[Dmaster292]

No, Alistairs seems like its helping him (helping him be more assertive) but Leliana's seems to be encouraging her to be more fiendish. Even if its not the way the developers intended I find it hard to ever condone killing and not giving a second chance, plus I like Leliana in the way she is from the beginning - seems a bit odd to have my warden fall for her, then change her. I quite like the story of this game, sparing people most of the time then convincing Leliana to embrace being sneaky when she's obviously trying to change and be good for me would spoil the story slightly. I still regret buying a family sword in redcliff rather than giving it back while paying for the kids to get to Denerim.

[Xilizhra]

You don't have to condone killing and not giving a second chance; all you have to say is that it's not bad that she enjoys adventuring. It doesn't have anything to do with the Marjolaine decision.

[Dmaster292]

Oh really, thought you had to have her killed. Hmm, I don't know then... I'll probably go by which response seems the most fitting. I wonder where I got the killing thing from, thanks for letting me know. From what I read on the wiki both hardened and not would get the settling down option. I believe I'm right in saying (not that that seems to make much difference) that actions which please a non-hardened character, please a hardened character the same amount, so I guess when it comes to Leliana it doesn't make a huge amount. Having said that the simple fact that a Hardened Leliana would be interested in a threesome with both the pirate woman and me, while non-hardened she wouldn't could be construed that she loves the character more when she hasn't been hardened.. maybe I'm getting too attached to these characters

Modifié par Dmaster292, 23 décembre 2010 - 09:59 .

[Xilizhra]

Right. Approval bonuses don't change when you harden Leliana, but some disapproval penalties lighten.

As for threesomes, that's up to you, but since it's the Warden who makes that suggestion in the first place, and Leliana is just going along with it... personally, I don't think it's a sign she loves you less. I do know that she's very grateful to you after the Marjolaine decision, either for helping her not fall off her path or for liberating her from her chains.

[Dmaster292]

Ack it seems I am destined to wonder if I picked the right choice regardless of which option I pick. It seems that it comes down to with her not hardened the romance story has a destiny spin (with her vision) while the hardened has more of a random meeting and saving her from the chantry. I'm probably gonna go with non simply as I've always been respectful of the Chantry and ultimately who am I to convince someone to disregard their belief system when I have no answers myself (unless I missed my character gaining the knowledge to the meaning of life). It's tricky though seen as you say she's o.k. with either. Depends I guess if I feel I have to perform some misdeeds for the greater good - that she maybe against. Sometimes wish I could explain my reasoning to the companions before they lose their approval of me.

[Dmaster292]

Don't worry I believe that to the games status she'll pretty much be the same person bar a few key instances, but I'm not sure how to go simply because I don't know how I'm gonna react. I mean I restarted the game 3 times because - In order - I didn't like the name I gave my character because it didn't fit with the names of the noble family, I didn't like the characters cheek bones being so prominent and when the conversations showed the back of my characters head the cheeks looked wavy not straight, and finally because I missed telling Ser Gilmore (the knight in the Cousland castle) about Duncan. I know I'm being an extreme perfectionist, but what can I say, I seem to get attached to my characters and the story line.

[Ollymandias]

Keep a save from before the hardening conversation in case you change your mind again?



My case for hardening.



When hardened, Leliana is still a good person. She still wants to help kittens out of trees and give sandwiches to hungry kids. When hardened, she's still jealous if the Warden cheats on her with the other love interests.



The way I see it, she became the "nice girl" Chantry sister because she was scared that continuing as she was, she would end up like Marjolaine (paranoid, joyless, unable to trust, etc). She's a woman of extremes, so she chooses to become the diametric opposite of what Marjolaine stands for (forgiving, repressed, unambitious and humble, sexually conservative and so on). What the Warden tells her when s/he hardens Leliana is that she isn't going to backslide off the morality map because she stops repressing herself, and isn't going to end up like a paranoid, lonely, frightened woman like Marjolaine.



The thing I like about it is that Leliana has been wearing masks for years and years. As a bard, she learned to assume different identities, become whoever she wants to become. If she really did hate killing back then, she had to repress this in order to be able to do well. As well as helping her in her role as a bard, I think she believed that her "badass" persona (how she is in Leliana's Song) allowed her to be loved by Marjolaine. As a chantry sister, took those bard skills and used them to wear a mask for a very different purpose. As well as helping her seemingly drop off the radar, it was a persona which meant that Andraste and the Maker loved her- and she convinces herself she's special enough to the Maker to warrant direct communication, and he usually only does that for his wife.



As an adventurer in a romance with the Warden, she is brought to the realization that she can be herself, and doesn't need to hide parts of herself (loves the excitement of the road, enjoys adventuring, was bored at times with life in the chantry) in order to be loved. The Warden doesn't require masks and maintaining personas as a condition for love- she can try and find who she is after a lifetime of pretending.



Just my take on it.

[Johnny Chaos]

harden her, she makes a comment about changing ur life unhardened. i wanted to slap her

[Dmaster292]

Well, while I appreciate all the advice, I left her unhardened. While you may disagree with me - I felt the conversation in which you harden her felt less about the nature of enjoying an adventuring style life, and more about enjoying killing. Try as I might (which wasn't too much) saying its aright to enjoy the lifestyle she talked about, seemed wrong when she seemed to not want to be like Marj... (cant remember how to spell her full name). The method you can take which does not harden her seemed to encourage the adventuring lifestyle without encouraging killing and greed for power.



Most other options just didn't fit with my characters outlook and point of view. Add in that she still talks about travelling when its all over made me happy with my choice.



I would like to say thanks to Ollymandias - gave me some things to think about and gave some more understanding of the depth of the story, and while I agree with you viewpoint I think that the transformation of Leliana occurs from the time she meets the warden rather than when she can be hardened. For me it felt like at this point she was worried that she was slipping back to old life style in which power is important, but telling her she is a good person kept her enjoying the adventuring lifestyle but trying to be noble in that pursuit. That said I did feel like I wanted to tell her it was O.K to be an adventurer (possibly what was meant by the key hardening statement) and enjoy it, but I felt I had to say I thought she was a good person first, and that the hardening statement was more specific. Which I'm fairly sure (this game has a habit of surprising me) was impossible.



But ultimately that was my decision I took. Hopefully I won't regret it. Big thanks to Xilizhra for the help early on btw.



And If we need more to discuss - contrary to my early comment - I couldn't let Marj live after hearing this is not over - so I killed her. Of all the points of the plot I though I was sure on it was that Marj should be spared if possible, but I don't like lose ends who are openly hostile.



Never the less the intricacy of the plot remains a fascination to me.

[Dmaster292]

nah - hoping to make Loghain a warden and have/let him do the sacrifice. But I do think you're right in that the next time she'll be hardened. Second time around I'll probably be a bit more free and easy about my options.