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Reaper Origins: FIVE Different Theories

Débuté par Guest_iOnlySignIn_* , déc. 23 2010 11:07

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#1
Guest_iOnlySignIn_*
Posté 23 décembre 2010 - 11:07

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I have summarized what I think to be FIVE different theories/hypotheses about the origins of the Reapers. Each theory's merits (+) and demerits (--) are summarized. Each theory now has a convenient keyword due to your suggestions. Please add more if you think I haven't covered all major possibilities - I will add your option to the OP. Please comment on which possibility/possibilities you think are the best/most reasonable.

1. (HAL 9000) Reapers are created by a sapient organic race. They rebeled against, and eventually destroyed their creators. They are the most successful of all rogue AIs.
(+) This mirrors the Geth's struggle with the Quarians and explains their contempt for organics.
(--) This does not explain why organics are required to build new Reapers.

2. (The Borg) Reapers are the natural evolution of a sapient organic race. As the organic race begins to rely more and more on cybernetics, they eventually become complete machines.
(+) This explains why organics are required to build new Reapers.
(--) This does not explain how Reapers regard organics as completely different and inferior, given their organic origins.

3. (Master Race) Reapers developed independly from organics billions of years ago. They were never invented or modified, they simply took a different evolutionary path than carbon-based organics. Their superiority is purely genetic, not technological as it appears.
(+) This explains best their huge difference from and contempt for carbon-based life forms, and Harbinger's constant mention of "genetic destiny".
(--) This does not explain why they need inferior life forms as raw material to construct new Reapers.

4. (Invader Zim) Reapers are invaders from another galaxy/universe, and hence their origins have nothing to do with our galaxy or us. In their home galaxy/universe, their origins could be anything like theories 1, 2, or 3.
(+) This fits well with the Reaper's motives and their contempt for all life in our galaxy, and leaves plenty of room for explaining why they need organics as raw material (perhaps that's WHY they invaded).
(--) It does not explain why they retreat to the Dark Space for intermission, instead of to their home galaxy/universe.

5. (Satan) Reapers have no beginning, i.e. they are always part of the universe. Their origins and motivations are truly beyond our comprehension.
(+) This is exactly what Sovereign means in ME1, and does not conflict any aspect of the story.
(--) This is mystical, and the Mass Effect universe is known for its lack of mystical elements.

I am leaning towards Theory #2. I think the Reapers forgot their organic origins, or are refusing to acknowledge it out of shame.

Modifié par iOnlySignIn, 24 décembre 2010 - 10:17 .

#2
Malanek
Posté 23 décembre 2010 - 11:13

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I'm leaning towards 2 as well. They are not completely inorganic. Over time they have incorporated more and more of the characteristics and technology they "reaped" from the species they destroy.

#3
Vaenier
Posté 23 décembre 2010 - 11:14

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They are a bad plot device that dont make sense for anything. If I had their resources, I would have turned the galaxy into one giant cloning and research facility and pump out multiple reapers a second. The universe would bow down to their numbers. Right now, the Reapers sit on their ass and do nothing.

Best I can do for the Mass Effect story is say they are simply an experiment with a toaster gone horribly wrong. They have no goals or objectives, they simply kill because their programming tells them to. They know nothing else. They barely qualify as sentient.

#4
skcih-deraj
Posté 23 décembre 2010 - 11:18

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I'm thinking maybe a mix of one and two. But I'd perfer they don't give their origins away keeps them mysterious and that is always a good thing.

#5
Bamboozalist
Posté 23 décembre 2010 - 11:19

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Perhaps Reapers are a cast off faction, from a universe spanning civilization that is so advanced we can't even fathom it, that are forced to hide in dark space and must harvest the milky way in order to survive?

#6
Malanek
Posté 23 décembre 2010 - 11:23

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Vaenier wrote...

They are a bad plot device that dont make sense for anything. If I had their resources, I would have turned the galaxy into one giant cloning and research facility and pump out multiple reapers a second. The universe would bow down to their numbers. Right now, the Reapers sit on their ass and do nothing.

Why? What would that achieve? If I am correct their evolution is quite interesting. The way they are doing it is to always be gaining new stuff because it always came from a fresh perspective.

#7
The Unfallen
Posté 23 décembre 2010 - 11:29

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Theory # 6 - They were created by a race of meta-physical all powerful beings of godlike proportions and power...



















...The Lazer Bears.

#8
Guest_iOnlySignIn_*
Posté 23 décembre 2010 - 11:30

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Malanek999 wrote...

Vaenier wrote...

They are a bad plot device that dont make sense for anything. If I had their resources, I would have turned the galaxy into one giant cloning and research facility and pump out multiple reapers a second. The universe would bow down to their numbers. Right now, the Reapers sit on their ass and do nothing.


Why? What would that achieve? If I am correct their evolution is quite interesting. The way they are doing it is to always be gaining new stuff because it always came from a fresh perspective.


I agree with Malanek. I think it is quite possible that the Reapers became so perfect that they are unable to evolve/improve upon themselves, so that they have to set up our galaxy as a sort of evolutionary laboratory to bring about something new.

Remember that the Vorcha has ceased to evolve for millions of years because of their regenerative abilities. The Vorcha certainly has room for improvement. Maybe the Reapers had to harvest other species because otherwise they are stuck with a similar kind of stagnation.

#9
Vaenier
Posté 23 décembre 2010 - 11:32

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Malanek999 wrote...

Vaenier wrote...

They are a bad plot device that dont make sense for anything. If I had their resources, I would have turned the galaxy into one giant cloning and research facility and pump out multiple reapers a second. The universe would bow down to their numbers. Right now, the Reapers sit on their ass and do nothing.

Why? What would that achieve? If I am correct their evolution is quite interesting. The way they are doing it is to always be gaining new stuff because it always came from a fresh perspective.

Natural evolution is too slow. Just build a super computer out of the galaxy and let it do the work for you.

#10
DaVanguard
Posté 23 décembre 2010 - 11:34

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Malanek999 wrote...

Vaenier wrote...

They are a bad plot device that dont make sense for anything. If I had their resources, I would have turned the galaxy into one giant cloning and research facility and pump out multiple reapers a second. The universe would bow down to their numbers. Right now, the Reapers sit on their ass and do nothing.

Why? What would that achieve? If I am correct their evolution is quite interesting. The way they are doing it is to always be gaining new stuff because it always came from a fresh perspective.

thats why they are selective of who they want

#11
Homey C-Dawg
Posté 23 décembre 2010 - 11:44

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iOnlySignIn wrote...
I agree with Malanek. I think it is quite possible that the Reapers became so perfect that they are unable to evolve/improve upon themselves, so that they have to set up our galaxy as a sort of evolutionary laboratory to bring about something new.


This is pretty much what I think.

#12
vargatom
Posté 24 décembre 2010 - 12:03

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Their origins and motivations to harvest the galaxy must be closely tied together, which is probably why we still don't have any info on either - revealing one would answer the other.



I also prefer #2, and think that #3 is quite unlikely. A Reaper body clearly has to be manufactured.

It's also worth to consider that a Reaper can carry passengers, in great numbers. Even if they regard it as we regard bacteria in our intestine tracts, the capability is still there.

Saren was able to travel around in Sovereign, and the derelict ship also had gravity (okay, that might be more related to gameplay, even if we've seen a weightless level in ME1 before).

#13
The Unfallen
Posté 24 décembre 2010 - 12:05

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I think it is either number 5 or 6...

#14
Guest_iOnlySignIn_*
Posté 24 décembre 2010 - 12:12

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vargatom wrote...

Their origins and motivations to harvest the galaxy must be closely tied together, which is probably why we still don't have any info on either - revealing one would answer the other.

I also prefer #2, and think that #3 is quite unlikely. A Reaper body clearly has to be manufactured.
It's also worth to consider that a Reaper can carry passengers, in great numbers. Even if they regard it as we regard bacteria in our intestine tracts, the capability is still there.
Saren was able to travel around in Sovereign, and the derelict ship also had gravity (okay, that might be more related to gameplay, even if we've seen a weightless level in ME1 before).


I'm glad someone is showing support for #3! As far as I know nobody has put forward #3 before, so I'm quite a bit proud of it. It is noteworthy that all sapient lifeforms in the ME galaxy are carbon-based. Hell, they're all amino-acid based, the only difference being chirality. It really puzzled me why there is no mention of silicon/nitrogen/boron based life forms.

Modifié par iOnlySignIn, 24 décembre 2010 - 12:18 .

#15
Guest_iOnlySignIn_*
Posté 24 décembre 2010 - 12:13

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That Yellow Bastard wrote...

I think it is either number 5 or 6...


Your #6 is either #5 or #4, depending on where the Lazer Bears are (In another galaxy/universe => #4; In a realm surpassing space & time => #5). 4 and 5 are the most likely if you taken Sovereign and Harbinger's words at face value. But IMO they are mostly bluffing.

Modifié par iOnlySignIn, 24 décembre 2010 - 12:16 .

#16
vargatom
Posté 24 décembre 2010 - 12:38

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I'm actually against #3 ;)

Even silicone based life should be something closer to organic. You can't "grow" a Reaper, if they were the result of natural evolution then they'd just sort of reproduce on their own, laying eggs on mineral rich moons or something.
Granted, I'm not too familiar with the science behind silicone based life forms... time to hit Wiki.

The fact that the Reapers are able to act as starships for organic creatures is actually more in line with #1, and maybe #2. It has to serve some kind of purpose that is in conflict with evolution (ie. carrying organic passengers does not provide superior survivability, so the ability should have been left behind millions of years ago)

Modifié par vargatom, 24 décembre 2010 - 12:39 .

#17
In Exile
Posté 24 décembre 2010 - 12:54

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iOnlySignIn wrote...
I am leaning towards Theory #2. I think the Reapers forgot their organic origins, or are refusing to acknowledge it out of shame.


Alternatively, they might just be really cool about it. So they think "flesh is weak" or whatever and they are the ultimate form of life, but they also will recognize when a species is worth being raised to their rank.

#18
UKJackMan
Posté 24 décembre 2010 - 12:59

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I like 4

To extend on the theory...

Reapers are the servants of a sapient organic race from another galaxy that was destroyed.Their masters are in cryogenic storage in dark space...but have long since died...



The reapers are searching every 50.000 years for the right organic material to replace or resurrect their masters...oh chilling...

#19
Guest_iOnlySignIn_*
Posté 24 décembre 2010 - 01:07

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vargatom wrote...

I'm actually against #3 ;)

Even silicone based life should be something closer to organic. You can't "grow" a Reaper, if they were the result of natural evolution then they'd just sort of reproduce on their own, laying eggs on mineral rich moons or something.
Granted, I'm not too familiar with the science behind silicone based life forms... time to hit Wiki.

The fact that the Reapers are able to act as starships for organic creatures is actually more in line with #1, and maybe #2. It has to serve some kind of purpose that is in conflict with evolution (ie. carrying organic passengers does not provide superior survivability, so the ability should have been left behind millions of years ago)


Ooops... I need to get new reading glasses... ^_^ And I think you're right about silicon-based life forms being similar to us. Perhaps I should have used a more general term...

But you likened a Reaper's organic passengers to bacteria in human intestines - humans can't live without those bacteria. Perhaps the artificial gravity & passageways inside Reapers are used by human-sized repair bots - we can't dismiss that because we've never seen the insides of a living Reaper before.

The major reason I like #3 is that it offers more diversity to the ME universe. I know it is perhaps the least likely/popular of the 5 theories, but I still wish people would consider it.

Modifié par iOnlySignIn, 24 décembre 2010 - 01:11 .

#20
Guest_iOnlySignIn_*
Posté 24 décembre 2010 - 01:10

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UKJackMan wrote...

I like 4

To extend on the theory...
Reapers are the servants of a sapient organic race from another galaxy that was destroyed.Their masters are in cryogenic storage in dark space...but have long since died...

The reapers are searching every 50.000 years for the right organic material to replace or resurrect their masters...oh chilling...


Chilling? I find it quite moving. Loyal servants indeed these Reapers are, if they are willing to commit genocide every half a million years just to resurrect their masters. I suspect the Reapers would have such selfless motives, though. Sovey and Harby both seem quite megalomaniacal to me.

#21
expanding panic
Posté 24 décembre 2010 - 01:18

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I like a 4. All that is know about Dark Space is that no one from our galaxy ever made it through. Maybe Dark Space is like an ocean wide then you have another galaxy and they just travel back and forth. We assume they stay in dark space. (I'm going on the theory that the reapers arin't telling us the whole truth or are lieing to us)



Just had a chilling thought: What if they never said where the reapers came from or how they originated, and used the excuse well this way you can decide how they came about. I'd be majorly pissed.

#22
thatguy212
Posté 24 décembre 2010 - 01:21

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I like number 2 but i think it was more that the race that they were decided to convert to reaper form as a means to be god like or something (i think harbinger says something about ascending) instead of slowing becoming more mechanical, it could explain the dislike of organics as they see it as they aren't "godlike" like they are

#23
Guest_iOnlySignIn_*
Posté 24 décembre 2010 - 01:23

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expanding panic wrote...

I like a 4. All that is know about Dark Space is that no one from our galaxy ever made it through. Maybe Dark Space is like an ocean wide then you have another galaxy and they just travel back and forth. We assume they stay in dark space. (I'm going on the theory that the reapers arin't telling us the whole truth or are lieing to us)


That's a very interesting idea and very possible solution. The Dark Space may have concentrations of Dark Energy for all we know (in our universe Dark Energy is everywhere). I agree that we should never accept what the Reapers tell us at face value.

expanding panic wrote...
Just had a chilling thought: What if they never said where the reapers came from or how they originated, and used the excuse well this way you can decide how they came about. I'd be majorly pissed.


Sweet Heavens I hope not! ME3 is supposed to finish the saga and it's only fitting that they offer a solution to one of the most important plot mysteries.

#24
Guest_iOnlySignIn_*
Posté 24 décembre 2010 - 01:26

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thatguy212 wrote...

I like number 2 but i think it was more that the race that they were decided to convert to reaper form as a means to be god like or something (i think harbinger says something about ascending) instead of slowing becoming more mechanical, it could explain the dislike of organics as they see it as they aren't "godlike" like they are


Like "Ascension" from Stargate? Certainly a viable possibility. [smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/joyful.png[/smilie]

#25
TomY90
Posté 24 décembre 2010 - 01:28

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to be honest I am going for a mix of theory 1. and 4. because i think there previous constructors from another galaxy died out due to using up there resources in the construction of reapers (likely due to indoctrination) but reapers did not plan on them dying out and forced them to go to other galaxies looking for resources and workers because naturally reapers are not small enough to build another reaper and need the essence of a race to get one to work.



they retreat to dark space because it saves more energy being in dark space rather than landing on a planet or going in orbit because energy is required to maintain its position.
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