75 réponses à ce sujet

[UKJackMan]

[quote]iOnlySignIn wrote...

[quote]UKJackMan wrote...

Chilling? I find it quite moving. Loyal servants indeed these Reapers are, if they are willing to commit genocide every half a million years just to resurrect their masters. I suspect the Reapers would have such selfless motives, though. Sovey and Harby both seem quite megalomaniacal to me.

[/quote]

Actually chilling was my bad pun attempt...cryogenic storage...

I like 4 because like you said you can extend on it...what I suggest explains maybe why they retreat back into dark space and seem to lay dormant...Why they need the organic material...Also their masters could of programed them to do so....
They show contempt for lesser species because they are dissatisfied...

Harbinger seemed very dissatisfied with the Protheans...and seems to have a lot to say about the different weaknesses each species have for some unknown reason...


However If all five theory's were horses in a race I would have to bet on the favorite...theory 2...

Modifié par UKJackMan, 24 décembre 2010 - 01:52 .

[The Unfallen]

iOnlySignIn wrote...

That Yellow Bastard wrote...

I think it is either number 5 or 6...

Your #6 is either #5 or #4, depending on where the Lazer Bears are (In another galaxy/universe => #4; In a realm surpassing space & time => #5). 4 and 5 are the most likely if you taken Sovereign and Harbinger's words at face value. But IMO they are mostly bluffing.

Lazer Bears stand around 9' and wear a cape with the Canadian flag on it. They are accompanied by the Time Keepers of Eternity which take the form of ravenous baboons. 

They can also teleport and are indestructible by anything short of a roundhouse kick by Chuck Norris and a supermassive black hole.

[UKJackMan]

We are all science fiction fans otherwise we wouldn't be here discussing the things we do...so we've all watched the matrix and surely have thought about the human batteries...perhaps organic goop is the Reapers fuel...Avatar Aborigines up against the sky people who wanted to destroy their awa for some reason unknown to them...Remember the Chronicles of Riddick...The Necromongers...a race of conquerors traveling across space toward the Underverse...a dark mirror of the normal universe where death has no meaning...Their leader the Lord Marshal commands his troops to overrun worlds and convert their inhabitants into Necromongers...those who oppose conversion are killed...In this movie Riddick defeats the lord marshell against impossible odds...The Necromongers had a law what you kill you keep...After killing the lord marshall Riddick unwittingly became the ruler of the Universe...Perhaps the Reapers on the verge of defeat will come to see Commander Shepard as their master or their God...

[themark443]

i'd like to think its a combination of 1 and 2.



using theory 1's demerit: the reapers can't build themselves so they rely on organic beings as resources/slave labor. like how the collectors were building a reaper at the end of ME2



using theory 2's demerit: they probably use the whole agent smith thing that "organic life is a virus". theory 2 seems plausible, drawing comparisons to say...the borg in star trek. which are a combination of organic and inorganic material.

[Bogsnot1]

iOnlySignIn wrote...
1. Reapers are created by a sapient organic race. They rebeled against, and eventually destroyed their creators.
(+) This mirrors the Geth's struggle with the Quarians and explains their contempt for organics.
(--) This does not explain why organics are required to build new Reapers.

Programming glitch, similar to how HAL in 2001 killed the crew it was programmed to protect. BSoD will screw up anyones data. "Absorb all that it is to be an organic being", could be taken many ways, with human slushies the end result.

2. Reapers are the natural evolution of a sapient organic race. As the organic race begins to rely more and more on cybernetics, they eventually become complete machines.
(+) This explains why organics are required to build new Reapers.
(--) This does not explain how Reapers regard organics as completely different and inferior, given their organic origins.

Same way Anglos thought they were superior because the other cultures they destroyed did not have the same level of technology. Slushyfying humans could be their way of saying "Welcome to Civilisation" the same way small pox, syphllis and measles were used to introduce native populations to "civilisation"

3. Reapers evolved independly from organics in a form of "machine evolution". In other words, they are simply a "Silicon (or Boron, or whatever else)"-based life form that is evolutionarily superior to all carbon-based organics.
(+) This explains best their huge difference from and contempt for carbon-based life forms.
(--) This does not explain why they need carbon-based life forms for their reproduction.

No evidence suggests that all previous Reaper harvests were done on just purely carbon lifeforms. Given the Collectors/Reapers interest in genetic diversity, any advanced silicate lifeform would have been reaped just as much as carbon. As such, have to rule out this theory.

4. Reapers are invaders from another galaxy/universe, and hence their origins have nothing to do with our galaxy or us.
(+) This fits well with the Reaper's motives and their contempt for all life in our galaxy, and leaves plenty of room for explaining why they need organics as raw material (perhaps that's WHY they invaded).
(--) It does not explain why they retreat to the Dark Space for intermission, instead of to their home galaxy/universe.

We only know they invade our galaxy every 50000 years. They could be parked in a holding pattern in the middle of our local galactic cluster and launch a raid into a nearby galaxy every 10000 years.

5. Reapers have no beginning, i.e. they are always part of the universe. Their origins and motivations are truly beyond our comprehension.
(+) This is exactly what Sovereign means in ME1, and does not conflict any aspect of the story.
(--) This is mystical, and the Mass Effect universe is known for its lack of mystical elements.

"A wizard did it" is not how Bioware works thankfully*. They better not start doing it either.

*Unless you are of course playing a wizard in a Bioware game, and are actually casting some magics, then its perfectly acceptable.

Modifié par Bogsnot1, 24 décembre 2010 - 05:59 .

[Dreamion]

I'm leaning more towards #1.
And the Reapers took the same stance as the Krogan, that the greatest insult you can inflict on your enemies is to ignore them. And thats why the Sovereign claims no one created the Reapers, because they hate the organics who made them so much, they've decided to ignore them, to make the universe forget that race ever existed. That is arguably the most horrible fate a civilization can suffer, to be forgotten.
Either that or it's just confused, maybe it really thinks the Reapers have no beginning. Maybe the ones who came before it knew, but it wasn't programmed with that information. And the ones who knew are dead.

Machines don't just happen, someone made them at some point.

Why they need organics to reproduce, maybe they know something about organic materials that makes better alloys, or maybe it's just their twisted version of poetic justice.
Doesn't really matter though since they're all probably going to die in ME3.

Modifié par Dreamion, 24 décembre 2010 - 06:15 .

[Last Vizard]

I support theory 1.

The IFF mission Reaper looked like a ship that a sentient race would pilot with the aid of an advanced AI, maybe the race only made AI for ships thinking that it would be safer than mobile platform: T1000s, risking a skynet situation(more of a joke than an actual reason). The human Reaper looked like it was being constructed by nano machines(as in i couldn't see anything building it lol) maybe this race built everything using nano machines that was supplied with genetically engineered stuff as building resources (orange mush which just grows like bacteria in great underground vats or oceans of it) that also resembles the make up of sentient beings (brain food?).... the Reaper ships realise eventually that their masters are no more than talking food or bacteria (harbinger likes to throw this insult and maybe he is being literal)? maybe a race who was losing a war started to take too many risks with giving AI more control over ship building and such (similar to EDI but without her own love interest?), so a way was found so that they could control the organics and make them produce more Reapers?..... and at some point they lost the ability to make the Orange mush so they resorted to sentient races, giving us enough time to replenish our numbers (the extra tech they get is a bonus?) and maybe they still think they are protecting the galaxy from something (another galaxy or beings of light on that random world?) This is where i'm throwing my money.

[Kristofer1]

I think it has something to do with Dark Matter, and Maelstrom or Haelstrom that we rescue Tali on.

[Gabey5]

my money is on borg

[Knickerus]

I'm leaning towards a mix of 1, 2, 4, and another numberless theory
.
They were created by another sapient race (#1) who thought that organic material would help make the best "super-machine" ever (#2). Hopefully they took volunteers. They were created in another galaxy (#4) which is where they return after they destroy all advanced sapient life in ours. I guess they bluff and say that it's "Dark Space".

With a pinch of that numberless theory this could be a great recipe. Since they didn't create their own race, they don't even know how they work. They've spent all this time in "Dark Space" trying to figure out how to make a better more powerful Reaper. Each time they attack our galaxy, they experiment with something new. I think that it's their hope to eventually become a "God like" creature/creation that can be their own species.


Feedback would
be appreciated, there may be some holes that I missed.

Modifié par Knickerus, 24 décembre 2010 - 03:51 .

[88mphSlayer]

UKJackMan wrote...

I like 4
To extend on the theory...
Reapers are the servants of a sapient organic race from another galaxy that was destroyed.Their masters are in cryogenic storage in dark space...but have long since died...

The reapers are searching every 50.000 years for the right organic material to replace or resurrect their masters...oh chilling...

V'ger?

[88mphSlayer]

i think the simplest interpretation of the "we have no beginning" bit is simply talking metaphorically about evolution, you look at humans for example and where do you draw the line where the purest most modern form of humanity starts? can't, and you can keep going back in time to the simplest bacteria and then before that, and i wouldn't be surprised if there were many stages to reaper evolution once the species who started them took the plunge



and since these machines have no end - the pinnacle of evolution after all - there's nowhere for them to go biologically, they're frozen in time and consider themselves Gods and deciders of all lesser life



i don't think they consider the species they came from as "forgotten", it's just that they see that species as just one step in the process from primordial soup to reaper-god



if you look at life like that, especially if your existence is infinite and all powerful, then everything else really is meaningless, making the entire point of reapers as gods as simply defending their status as the ultimate gods of the universe by either corrupting species that could join their evolutionary path or destroying anything that would deviate to something else, not to mention you gotta make room for the next species if you consider the current ones impure as a reaper would



that's my take

[UKJackMan]

88mphSlayer wrote...

i think the simplest interpretation of the "we have no beginning" bit is simply talking metaphorically about evolution, you look at humans for example and where do you draw the line where the purest most modern form of humanity starts? can't, and you can keep going back in time to the simplest bacteria and then before that, and i wouldn't be surprised if there were many stages to reaper evolution once the species who started them took the plunge

and since these machines have no end - the pinnacle of evolution after all - there's nowhere for them to go biologically, they're frozen in time and consider themselves Gods and deciders of all lesser life

i don't think they consider the species they came from as "forgotten", it's just that they see that species as just one step in the process from primordial soup to reaper-god

if you look at life like that, especially if your existence is infinite and all powerful, then everything else really is meaningless, making the entire point of reapers as gods as simply defending their status as the ultimate gods of the universe by either corrupting species that could join their evolutionary path or destroying anything that would deviate to something else, not to mention you gotta make room for the next species if you consider the current ones impure as a reaper would

that's my take

A very good take...

Perhaps believing they are Gods Reapers might think they created the Universe...If they came from a realm beyond our Universe they would simply see our galaxy as a greenhouse and clear out the weeds and dead fruit now and then...

V.GER...Is this all that I am? Is there nothing more?...I hadn't realised the similarities it must of been locked in my head somewhere...

[azerSheppard]

iOnlySignIn wrote...

88mphSlayer wrote...

i think the simplest interpretation of the "we have no beginning" bit is simply talking metaphorically about evolution, you look at humans for example and where do you draw the line where the purest most modern form of humanity starts? can't, and you can keep going back in time to the simplest bacteria and then before that, and i wouldn't be surprised if there were many stages to reaper evolution once the species who started them took the plunge

and since these machines have no end - the pinnacle of evolution after all - there's nowhere for them to go biologically, they're frozen in time and consider themselves Gods and deciders of all lesser life

i don't think they consider the species they came from as "forgotten", it's just that they see that species as just one step in the process from primordial soup to reaper-god

if you look at life like that, especially if your existence is infinite and all powerful, then everything else really is meaningless, making the entire point of reapers as gods as simply defending their status as the ultimate gods of the universe by either corrupting species that could join their evolutionary path or destroying anything that would deviate to something else, not to mention you gotta make room for the next species if you consider the current ones impure as a reaper would

that's my take

That's the best version of the "Master Race" theory I've ever heard. You have made it sound most likely and reasonable of all theories. I think there is a high possibility (~25%) that BioWare may choose something close to your version of the story.

Yes i like this too, but it's all just a little too obvious, the entire mystical facade they put on, or atleast sovereign put on(maybe he was into mystecisms), seems to be meaningless now.

"Out numbers will darken the sky of every world" 
I always took this litteraly, meaning that all planets with space-faring civilizations across the entirety of the universe would periodicaly be "cleaned out".
Doesn't nessecarily make them mystic, just Grand.

Also no wizards allowed, i do want a comprehensible reason as to why the reapers do this. Notice how the Reaper/s controlling Paul Grayson actually tried to explain themselves to Sanders, they wanted her to understand this was for the "good" of mankind.

[Quintega]

these all are based on the theory that the reapers were made but I have a better one which answers most of the problems. The reapers were naturally created silicon Nano parasites. If we include the possibility that a AI can be naturally created same way OI (Organic intelligence) then it makes sense. They could have been formed over millennia's of junk and Debris they could have started out as spores like the thresher maws do and just naturally as they fed on organic and non organinc they got larger but still retained the hive mind. At some point the fell into our galaxy and began to realize they couldn't evolve much without help. Or they could have formed in the galaxy doesn't matter. But they already had Mass relay tech since its basically how they work. So they built and began doing the harvest. The darkspace section is so they don't use up their power and life span and so the tech is at the level they need to evolve. The problem is after doing this so long they got to large and could no longer reproduce their bio synthetic bodies. So they created slave species through indoctrination to study others until they found suitable DNA then each REaper shell is basically a huge hive mind of the parasites so the head mind would always be someone with massive talent like Shepard. Basically then the human reaper could be considered in human pregnancy turns less then a month old in terms of human pregnancy time. Hence why it was so small. The third book and the first game made me think of this also It kinda helps if you play both games to those who only played the second you should stop thinking the reapers are just an excuse also from the beginning of 2 I knew harbinger was a reaper controlling the general and I got the game when it came out and didn't read any guides just beat it on my own it was obvious

[Dean_the_Young]

None of the above:



The Reapers are a system designed to preserve (worthy) galactic civilizations from permanent extinction resulting from the inevitable overuse of Mass Effect dark energy destroying the galaxy. The first Reapers were at least partially deliberate/willingness on the part of the origin species, with the gestalt biological-processed nature of the Reapers being used to preserve the 'essence' of a species and its population in a form that would not endanger the galaxy.



The galactic cycle, more than a cycle of extinction, is a cycle to allow more life to remain and grow in the galaxy. Civilizations that would inevitably discover, develop, overuse, and die from the overuse of Mass Effect and biotics are instead culled by the Reapers, allowing other species to grow. 'Worthy' civilizations/species that meet Reaperfication requirements are Reaperfied to preserve them as well.



The goal of the Reapers isn't conquest, territory, or dominance, or even killing. It's preserving a balance of galactic survival. Military necessity is an afterthought, not the purpose.

[88mphSlayer]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

None of the above:

The Reapers are a system designed to preserve (worthy) galactic civilizations from permanent extinction resulting from the inevitable overuse of Mass Effect dark energy destroying the galaxy. The first Reapers were at least partially deliberate/willingness on the part of the origin species, with the gestalt biological-processed nature of the Reapers being used to preserve the 'essence' of a species and its population in a form that would not endanger the galaxy.

The galactic cycle, more than a cycle of extinction, is a cycle to allow more life to remain and grow in the galaxy. Civilizations that would inevitably discover, develop, overuse, and die from the overuse of Mass Effect and biotics are instead culled by the Reapers, allowing other species to grow. 'Worthy' civilizations/species that meet Reaperfication requirements are Reaperfied to preserve them as well.

The goal of the Reapers isn't conquest, territory, or dominance, or even killing. It's preserving a balance of galactic survival. Military necessity is an afterthought, not the purpose.

i don't know about overuse or abuse of biotics and mass effect technology, as the humans have only just started dabbling in that while the asari have been doing it for awhile

i just think it's one big reaper reproduction program, like reaper farming where they throw out all the scraps every winter and start over the next spring

sucks for all the carrots and potatoes that don't cut it, but that's how they view us - like carrots and potatoes, they don't view any species as something great because it built big towers or big space ships, they only see our genetic history and whether we're worthy of ascension

ascension of course in mystical terms means ascending to heaven without dying, reapers don't view humans as the final line in evolution just a step so they don't care if we die physically, only that our worthiness is preserved

they have to destroy all life regardless tho because like farming - you start over from scratch, you don't plant new potatoes next to old dead ones and weeds