37 réponses à ce sujet

[Spartas Husky]

Can't find this anywhere but it most likely was already talked about.

Not really fond of how squadmates dont have a definite class, and are a mix and mash of many without any real strengths but tons of weaknesses.

1st: Weapons... everyone should have access to every weapon, of every class period, with somewhat penalties to accuracy, no argument there... although unlike ME1 if your not trained in snipers still allow for zoom in... you dont need damn training just to look through a lens, but do make it move alot so is hard to actually fire without training on it.

2nd: classes, on top the main point though. Every squadmate should be a class in itself. Define each squadmate as a certain class with their unique capabilities.

Squadmates should not only have their passive ability that defines them.
Example I did like that Instead of Miranda having guardian or Raider passive powers she has her own skill as tactician or leader.

For ME3 though I would recommend each squadmate going back a bit to ME1 mentality. Squadmates should not only have passive powers that define them personally but should have their class specific power.

Example:

If Nothing changed whatsoever (except for removing universal cooldowns) this would be what I would recommend:
A. All biotics need to have barrier power.
Kaiden, liara, wrex had them, they all have different proffessions and lifes but is a basic power of any biotic.
B. Building onto it every biotic basic skills, no biotic should be without lift throw and warp. ANything else might be just added depending on the life and needs of each, those who barely see combat or have a different way of fighting might not have train for schokwave but trained for something else.
Example neither Miranda nor Thane would have schockwave but individuals with high risk reward scenarios like Jack or Samara should.


B. Every class should be specific to the character. As mentioned above even though characters have passive powers they dont have class specific. During some modding I started to fix up my.... vies on shortcomings of ME2, that ME1 had. Kaiden was a sentinel... but a biotic, so he had barrier. AShley was a soldier so she had immunity (fortification now....although grossly watered down).
Toa ll this what did I do.
1. I modded every character to have some sort of ammo... I tried making it "sensible" to their proffesion.... I wish I could have given Tali and Legion disruptor but could not.
2. I gave every character a defensive capablity... trying to be as sensinble again to their proffesion.... wish Tech armor was a bonus power... but oh well.
3. I gave every character a grenade power... mostly flashbangs since having 2 powers against armor seemed overkill.
PS: I hope to god some pc guru or console guru figures out a way to take off universal cooldown thing.... I still say it whoever came with that idea should be fired, slaped and at least thrown of the window of whatever floor they happended to be working in.


Example of what I did IN to my squadies in most games.
In order of acquisition

Jacob Not sure his profession.....vanguard???:  no charge, I understand AI can't charge without us running into the biggest AI problem ever... give him Barrier... but as class specific something that increases his defense beyond that of barrier... or if is too close to sentinel tech armor then give him alot more offensive power for weaponry.
1`Pull, 2`Slam, 3`barrier (they had it in ME1), 4`inferno ammo, 5`flash grenade

Miranda (clearly sentinel) she should have tech armor period.
1`Overload,2` Warp,3` Slam, 4`Tugsten(wish I could add disruptor instead) 5`Barrier or GSB(still debating which is more... right).

Garrus (very close to infiltrator):  He should have cloaking, giving him extra power with both rifls or snipers.

1`Overload, 2`Concussion shot. 3`Tugsten (as an infiltrator... he should have disruptor but I think they added tugsten just cuz), 4`GSB and 5`Flashbang.

Mordin (engineer, drone is not a class specific power... it sucks): no drone... they should have something better... temporary boost to all tch powers and immidiate reuse decreases accuracy but something.

1`ncinirate, 2`cryo, 3`neuro shock, 4`Tugsten (wish I could give him disruptora mmo), 5`(GSb or fortification.... not sure)

jack (....adept without singularity......idiot whoever did not give her singularity): 

1`Shockwave(wish I could exchange it for singularity) , 2`Pull, 3`Reaver (wish it had the same effect as warp against biotics), 4`Warp Ammo, 5`barrier.

GRunt  (soldier through and through):  SOldiers should have access to every weapona nd every ammo power
1`Concussion Shot, 2`Inferno ammo, 3`fortification, 4`incendiary grenade, 5`flash grenade.

Tali:

Ai, Drone, Energy Drain, GSB, Tugsten (wish I it would be disruptor)

Samara: No idea what she is.... vanguard??? adept? I think vanguard.
1`Throw, 2`Pull, 3`Reaver (again wish this had the same warp effect thing), 4`warp ammo, 5`barrier.

Just like Jacob, she should have access to multiple ammo powers, but she should have a class specific power similar to jacobs, to increase biotic powers or w/e offensive boosts.

Thane: Have NO idea what he is.... infiltrator??? Thane is what I hate of what bioware has done. If your going to mix classes, let us do the same, if not stick to something.

1`Warp, 2`Throw, 3`Barrier, 4`Flashbang, 5`tugsten ammo.


Legion: Same exact thing as Tali.
1`AI, 2`Drone, 3`GSB, 4`Energy drain, 5`Tugsten (wish it be disruptor)


Kasumi....... infiltrator???: anyways, the "shadow strike" was a nice try, but instead of going to hit someone....she should just cloack, get out a sniper and have massive dmg for... 3-5 secs.

1`Shadow 2`Strike, 3`overload, 4`Flash, 5`Tugsten(Wish it would be disruptor fits her better), GSB


Zaeed: Soldier through and through... why he has disruptor instead of inferno.... most likely the same guy who thought it was a good idea to have no bonus power able to rip through shields..... like a bait you can never get to.... really? the only guy who has disruptor?? slap yourself bioware employee .

1-COncussion Shot, 2-Disruptor (maybe because shileds are becoming prevalent? or because blue suns are tech oriented???),  3-Inferno Grenade, 4-Fortification, 5-Flash Grenade.


00000000000000000000

Basically just like ME1... every character has a class, the ONLY thing that changes, is the way their powers are distributed... everyone has a basic start... all biotics have barrier throw and pull. ALl techs have overload and some sort of tech armor.

Every soldier has immunity and adrenaline rush.

The same applies to every class, and what makes them special is what different things they have as a passive power, does it increase power or lowers cooldown time?. Does it increases just a certain tech power to a great extreme? vs armor or vs shield? while it makes the opposite power if used recharges very slowly?.

Anyways heading out to eat. Feel free to give comments... keep it civilized, although that be ironic given my many many gramatical errors across this piece of writing so do at least try to overlook em for now

Modifié par Spartas Husky, 24 décembre 2010 - 12:15 .

[The Unfallen]

I am putting money on us having 2 squad members from ME 1, 2 from ME 2, and 4 new ones.



I am hoping the 2 squad members that return from ME 1 are Wrex and Ash/Kai, and the ones from ME 2 being Thane and Mordin, so that leaves us with:



Combat [Soldier]

Combat Biotic [Vanguard]

Biotic [Adept]

Tech [Engineer]



So that would hopefully mean the other four would be a:

Tech/Biotic [Sentinel]

Combat/Tech [Infiltrator]

Probably another Combat and Tech/Biotic mix.



I'm thinking the final squad will be something like so:



- Soldier

- Soldier

- Engineer

- Adept

- Vanguard

- Infiltrator

- Sentinel

- Sentinel



All in all I'm hoping for this:



Soldier 1 - Ashley.

Soldier 2 - New Krogan maybe, or a new Alliance soldier.

Sentinel 1 - Hopefully a Batarian

Sentinel 2 - New Human possible. If it is Kaidan then replace Ashley with somebody else

Adept - Thane

Engineer - Mordin

Vanguard - Wrex

Infiltrator - New Human or Garrus

[Googlesaurus]

Why would be Legion have the powers of an Engineer when his designation is Geth Infiltrator?

[Spartas Husky]

Googlesaurus wrote...

Why would be Legion have the powers of an Engineer when his designation is Geth Infiltrator?

no I think you are missing the point. Like ME1. the Passive bonuses are their respective class. But overall their skills shouldn't differ from a shep that chooses a certain class.

He has shields, AI hacking...

meaning a human infiltrator should share every single one of those abilities.

Besides he has drones... and he is suppose to be an "infiltrator".

[Googlesaurus]

Spartas Husky wrote...

Googlesaurus wrote...

Why would be Legion have the powers of an Engineer when his designation is Geth Infiltrator?

no I think you are missing the point. Like ME1. the Passive bonuses are their respective class. But overall their skills shouldn't differ from a shep that chooses a certain class.

He has shields, AI hacking...

meaning a human infiltrator should share every single one of those abilities.

Besides he has drones... and he is suppose to be an "infiltrator".

I don't mind sticking to the designation as much as what the designation suggests. His power-set makes no sense in relation to what he was supposedly created to do, and except for Combat Drone (weirdly enough) it has no synergy with his weapon-set of Assault Rifles and Sniper Rifles.

I wouldn't go back to the class designation. It's a lazy application of the player class system for no good reason. Each squadmate should have somewhat of a unique mix of powers so we don't get another Tali situation again. 

Modifié par Googlesaurus, 24 décembre 2010 - 08:09 .

[Sir Ulrich Von Lichenstien]

Yeah I agree with Googlesaurus that it is much better with the squadmates having their own unique set of skills. Whilst I understand what your saying Spartas about the powers being differently distributed. Them all having the same set of stuff makes them less unique.



As an example, I would expect an Asari Commando to have different set of skills than an Alliance Commando. Using your examples of Garrus and Kasumi, the way I've always seen it is that Garrus leans more towards the Soldier side of Infiltrator, whilst Kasumi leans more towards the Engineer side. So it makes more sense for Kasumi to have the more 'techy' stuff and Garrus to have the more 'Soldier' stuff. To some extent same could be said even for the non hybrids, though I guess it is harder to do so for those because it is more in regards the different styles that the classes can be, which to some extent can easily be summed up in the 'passive' skill. Though it can easily just be a case of them training in the use of specific areas and thus not training in others and then in those areas they have trained it is then up to us to decide which they favour more than the others.



Shepard is supposed to be an exception because Shepard is the main character, the hero, the bloody icon, a god... ok maybe that last one is a bit extreme. But if all the squadmates had same level of skill as Shep then it would detract from Shep being the person they are.

[trucoolbrees]

I think the reasoning for ME2's power distributing is partly tied into the dumbing down of the RPG elements. Hopefully since they're making ME3 more RPG heavy than ME2, most of the issues you mentioned will be rectified.

[lazuli]

Spartas Husky wrote...


1st: Weapons... everyone should have access to every weapon, of every class period, with somewhat penalties to accuracy, no argument there... although unlike ME1 if your not trained in snipers still allow for zoom in... you dont need damn training just to look through a lens, but do make it move alot so is hard to actually fire without training on it.

I appreciate the thought that you put into your post, but I cannot agree with any return to ME1's stat-based accuracy system.  It was frustrating and poorly thought out.  I don't mind having incomplete gun loadouts, as it gives me another incentve to replay the game and develop new strategies with different weapons.

[The Spamming Troll]

the defining attribute to a class is their signature ability. personally i dont think any squadmate should have one of those abilities. it doesnt matter to me if thane is a vanguard or an infiltrator. i moreso want that characters abilities to represent who and what that character is. i dont want to see grunt become an adept in ME3. you could say garrus and kasumi are both engineers but with different bonus powers.

[Spartas Husky]

Still. If your an infiltrator... why shouldn't every squadmate that resembles it have some sort of active camo?.



or if they somewhat resemble a vanguard to have a barrier ability. I am not saying to take away their unique feeling like ME1. But to add on top of the basic skills.



I guess what I failed to convey was that biowareshould have a set basic skill set. So this would require them to pump up the RPG elements and go back to in between ME1 and ME2, not necessarily having 12 lvs for each class... but not 4... maybe 8...?



My idea is basically to have a Shep who is a ....adept for example, be no different in basic abilities than Jack, or Samara.



BUT there are differences, Adept Shepperd is not a complete human weapon like Jack or a monk trained for centuries as a killing machine.



So in essence, what I mean is they all three share the adept basic class but for each one provides different bonuses. Just like in ME1, and Engineer shep compared to tali finds himself short since Tali has more bonuses.



But for skills set they should share most skill set with a few differences that shape their persona.

Example:

Adept Shep:

Pull/Throw

I think this skill should be made one but with a quick combinations of two buttons to decide which one you want. A hand not only knnows how to throw a punch it also knows how to pull something with force as well.

Barrier... every biotic no matter how small should have this skill

Warp... ^^^^^^^^^^^same



There.. every single biotic from adept to vanguard should share those 3 simple skills. ANything added on top would define each. My point is to have a define set, just like with weapons. Soldiers dont leave BCT learning how to fire a pistol some, rifle others, and at times nobody knows what a shogun is even held?... it is sci fi but come on. Smae with biotics. All biotics learn basic things, like offensive biotics... warp.

Simple defense, barrier, whether each class has a different bonuses for each. The barrier a vanguard projects might not be the same strength of that of an adept, adept overall should have more bonuses for cooldowns (not universal), and dmg for biotic powers.



So in the end, to be more ...basic I guess, there should be a basic set of powers. Not necessarily for soldiers or specific class set, but more... "attribute" set.



All who have "biotic" in their class definition from adept to vanguard, should have barrier, pull/throw, and warp.



All Tech from engineer to infiltrator, should have Overload and Incinirate



All combat should have concussion shot, and something else... not sure since I believe ammo power sshouldbe universal.



Still skills should be unique... not just tech copies of biotic powers.

Example: Concussive shot shouldn't just be a biotic push copy. rather its own unique power.

Push should push enemies farther so due to the distance it takes more time for them to come into the fight.

rather concussive shot should just push people to the ground whether or not they have defenses matters not. But because of concussive shot any enemy suffers decreased accuracy of 40% for the next 6 secs?



Another simple example would be protection: Every class should have access to a protection of one form or another. This would require of course for enemies to actually be enemies not dumb down copies of you with weird health. Enemies also would need access to ammo powers and full array of defensive abilities.

All combat should have Fortification (immunity) of course it would need alot more work to be done to make it worth while: Fortification doesn't increase shields... this is something that has to change, in ME1 we had shields... over shields (in case of barrier), or something that affects health bar differetly.



If is Fortification it should influence health bar. Decreasing melee dmg, toxic dmg, an any ammo power that isn't designed to harm armor. In other words gaining extra defense against non armor piercing weapons and ammo.



Biotic Barriers for example should be what they were in ME1, overshields, not replacement of them. And like Fortification increase defense against weapons or ammo designed to pierce ammo.



Of course this would require for mixes of the good things of both games, not just a near overhaul of the game like ME2 did with ME1, which little of the first game remains.



This would require also that defense powers to last a lot less than their recharge time since they should be unique.





I also typed this a while ago about powers. We all know we have 3 types. Combat, Tech, and Biotic.



Each should be in a different tree, with different cooldowns, now no I am not suggesting universla cooldowns, so try to bare with me.



For example. If you have biotic power throw/pull, warp and singularity each are different in power respectively.



These powers have no relation to Tech powers since tech powers do not require you to use the L implants, so not only should they not share cooldowns for this matter but should not share the fatigue cooldown either. What is a fatigue cooldown I will explain shortly.



If your a class that uses biotics you should have those 3 powers no matter the class. Point is, if you use Throw/pull it takes a toll on the brain so the normal cooldown for that power alone, and a fatigue cooldown which decreases the efficiency of other biotic powers.



To explain in detail: If you use Throw the recharge is letes say 6 secs, but there should also be a fatigue of 3 secs. The first cooldown is normal is how long it takes for your brain to be ready for another volley of such caliber and since is just a pull or throw it wont be long. So is the fatigue, now what does the fatigue cooldown does?.



If you Cast throw the normal cooldown ro reuse kicks in, but the fatigue cooldown which is a lot shorter has no impact on how early you an use other biotics NO, and while this may be confused with universal cooldown is not. What those 3 short secs of fatigue do is put penalties on all biotic powers casted within those 3 secs.



IN other words you can cast all biotic powersyou have within 2 secs if you want, going back to ME1 style. But taking the balancing issues of ME2, you get penalties for going crazy.

When you casted throw those 3 secs mean your brain is still reeling from the biotic power you used so is simple a matter of leeting your brain breath, so to speak. Once those 3 secs are over you can use any other biotic power without penalty. But if you use another biotic power within those 3 secs, it gets a penalty of 25% to everything. Accuracy, power and extra cooldown is added to that power.



Meaning if you use throw, its cooldown is 6 secs, fatigue added for biotics powers are 3 secs. You can wait the 3 for no penalty. if you use warp though within those 3 secs without letting you brain rest, it has a penalty of 25% to every feature it has. But not only that it fatigues you even further, adding 4 secs, since is more powerful tan a throw, it has a fatigue penalty of 4 secs, added to however many seconds you had left. If you used the 2nd bioptic power when you onyl had 1 second fatigue then now you have 5 seconds left, and any 3rd power from biotics has a 50% penalty to its features. Now if you had 3 secs remaining which means you just casted throw, and right then use warp, means you have 9 secs of fatigue.



Now Like sinks,or how sinks should have been. This means we can go all out if we want but at the price of decreased performance.



So you could cast 3 powers,:

Throw, no penalty

Warp with 25% decreased efficiency

barrier, for 50% decreased efficiency



Throw by then has recharged, and if you use it, it will have 75% decreased effiency, anything after that is 99%, which means in lame man weapon terms, your brain is... "overheated" and you need to chill for a bit so you dont drop to the ground drolling and twiching.





For tech powers, is the EXACT SAME idea, but it uses your omni tool. If you use Cryo blast, is fine, but your omnitool gets heat built up for 3 secs. If you use then neural shock, it only has a small 25% penalty. If you then use a drone your pushing the omni tool and the drone will have 50% penalties. If you use overload then, it will be 75% penalty.... after that just like a weapon you have a bar saying "overheat" and you gota wait w/e stacked up seconds you have left until you can use the next power. BUT you can use more powers if you want.... at 99% penalties... this doesn't mean you "can't" use powers until the bar goes down... NO you can, you can blast powers right and left, but anything after the 4th power will be nothing more than spitballs, adding fatigue meter. Of course that fatigue meter should have a limit... like 20 seconds at the start of the game, and with upgrades it will end up with no more than 10.



With sinks. Same thing. You have a set amount of sinks. You can go the entire game without spending a SINGLE sink. you can fire in controlled pairs the entire time, but a sink only is able to provide very slow pairs... meaning is sort of dull going just with one sink. If you want to go all out you can, but then you eject sink after sink. When you have the last sink with you, you simply are overheated, and while you can fire shots it will be like those videosgames that when your weapon is so overheated you shoot very slowly.



if you have the last sink left and it says overheated you dont need to wait for the bar to go down, no, if the bar holds 20 little heat bars, every shot means 4 little bars, like in ME1. If you overheated the last sink, and is cooling down you dont have to wait for the bar to go down completely, once enough heat is vented you cna fire 1 round... not very efficient, but hey you can, which is the point of RPG's let you do something, even if is inefficient.



IN other words if you overheat the last sink, and you want to keep shooting crazy, you will sound like... pew.................................pew..................................pew.................... etc coz you dont let the sink vent.





Now from all this, powers should not have universal cooldowns, but should take a toll on powers relating to them. Biotics have penalties on other biotics that are used after it.



tech powers if used, HAVE NO fatigue buil up for biotics. etc



If you use warp, then throw, and have a combined fatigue of 7 secs, you can use overload after it with no penalty whatsoever since one uses your brain the other uses a tool down at your forearm, neither one is related to the other in any way.... unless bioware goes to far and says it adds fatigue to press a holographic button lol.

[Googlesaurus]

Spartas Husky wrote...

Still. If your an infiltrator... why shouldn't every squadmate that resembles it have some sort of active camo?.

The "Infiltrator" class does not actually exist in Mass Effect. It's an in-game system meant to balance out gameplay while giving limited options to the player for the sake of strategy. I don't see why it should apply to squadmates. Their powers should correspond to their history and general approaches to battle, and then be balanced so no one is shoved into niche territory. 

For example, Garrus seems to resemble an Infiltrator. But how close is the resemblance? He was trained as an officer in C-Sec and possibly received Spectre training before he left the Citadel. His success on Omega was attributed to his tactical genius, not his personal ability to sneak around without being seen. His weapon set is Assault Rifles and Sniper Rifles. If anything Garrus should be a sneaky Soldier with some tech abilities, a well rounded squadmate.

Kasumi and Legion are the most eligible for Tactical Cloak, but Kasumi has Shadow Strike and TC + Widow is overkill. 

Spartas Husky wrote...

BUT there are differences, Adept Shepperd is not a complete human weapon like Jack or a monk trained for centuries as a killing machine.

So in essence, what I mean is they all three share the adept basic class but for each one provides different bonuses. Just like in ME1, and Engineer shep compared to tali finds himself short since Tali has more bonuses.

But for skills set they should share most skill set with a few differences that shape their persona.
Example:
Adept Shep:
Pull/Throw
I think this skill should be made one but with a quick combinations of two buttons to decide which one you want. A hand not only knnows how to throw a punch it also knows how to pull something with force as well.
Barrier... every biotic no matter how small should have this skill
Warp... ^^^^^^^^^^^same

There.. every single biotic from adept to vanguard should share those 3 simple skills. ANything added on top would define each. My point is to have a define set, just like with weapons. Soldiers dont leave BCT learning how to fire a pistol some, rifle others, and at times nobody knows what a shogun is even held?... it is sci fi but come on. Smae with biotics. All biotics learn basic things, like offensive biotics... warp.
Simple defense, barrier, whether each class has a different bonuses for each. The barrier a vanguard projects might not be the same strength of that of an adept, adept overall should have more bonuses for cooldowns (not universal), and dmg for biotic powers.

So in the end, to be more ...basic I guess, there should be a basic set of powers. Not necessarily for soldiers or specific class set, but more... "attribute" set.

All who have "biotic" in their class definition from adept to vanguard, should have barrier, pull/throw, and warp.

But why should Jack know Barrier when she focuses her power into destruction? She was never taught abilities as much as forced to use them for experimentation.  

Generalized abilities of Adepts and Vanguard make sense if said adepts and vanguards learn to use their abilities from an institution like the military. Samara comes from a different tradition, and Jack spend much of her life roaming around. 

Spartas Husky wrote...

All Tech from engineer to infiltrator, should have Overload and Incinirate

All combat should have concussion shot, and something else... not sure since I believe ammo power sshouldbe universal.

Immunity? Fitness?

Spartas Husky wrote...

Still skills should be unique... not just tech copies of biotic powers.
Example: Concussive shot shouldn't just be a biotic push copy. rather its own unique power.
Push should push enemies farther so due to the distance it takes more time for them to come into the fight.
rather concussive shot should just push people to the ground whether or not they have defenses matters not. But because of concussive shot any enemy suffers decreased accuracy of 40% for the next 6 secs?

Good idea. 

Spartas Husky wrote...

Another simple example would be protection: Every class should have access to a protection of one form or another. This would require of course for enemies to actually be enemies not dumb down copies of you with weird health. Enemies also would need access to ammo powers and full array of defensive abilities.
All combat should have Fortification (immunity) of course it would need alot more work to be done to make it worth while: Fortification doesn't increase shields... this is something that has to change, in ME1 we had shields... over shields (in case of barrier), or something that affects health bar differetly.

If is Fortification it should influence health bar. Decreasing melee dmg, toxic dmg, an any ammo power that isn't designed to harm armor. In other words gaining extra defense against non armor piercing weapons and ammo.

Biotic Barriers for example should be what they were in ME1, overshields, not replacement of them. And like Fortification increase defense against weapons or ammo designed to pierce ammo.

Of course this would require for mixes of the good things of both games, not just a near overhaul of the game like ME2 did with ME1, which little of the first game remains.

This would require also that defense powers to last a lot less than their recharge time since they should be unique.

Hmmm, we agree on many other things. 

Modifié par Googlesaurus, 25 décembre 2010 - 04:30 .

[Praetor Knight]

Well, I just want to see every squad-mate have a unique power like Kasumi's Shadow Strike. Here are some ideas with the ME2 squad.

• Garrus - Assassination, 1S1K with a Sniper Rifle, need more Combat Powers.
  
• Grunt - Carnage, fires like the talent in ME for Shotguns, he really doesn't need much to be more effective.
  
• Jack - Barrage, basically what Jack did in her RM to the base and YMIR's, it could function like Grunt's Melee charge that also does biotic damage, with a long cooldown.
  
• Jacob - Charge, if he is a Vanguard then he could at least move like Vasir around the Battle Field to flank the enemy, he's fine as a character and he desperately needs a better Power then Barrier.
  
• Legion - Distortion Rocket, like what Geth Juggernauts fired in ME, it would function like firing a Missle.
• Miranda - Tech Armor, if she is a Sentinel why not? It would keep her from dying so often without having to micro her.
• Mordin - Overload? That would make him as or more useful then Miranda, but not sure what else he could use.
• Samara/Morinth - Lift, she has Throw and Pull, but bringing back Lift would add to her ability as a Controller (I know I missed it), but there are better ideas for what she can do, it's the best I can think of right now.
• Tali - Tech Proximity Mine, it would function like it did in ME and explode when an enemy gets close to it.
  
• Thane - Quick-Kill, it would function like Kasumi's Shadow Strike and it could showcase his Martial Arts Skill.
  
• Zaeed - Overkill, shredding the enemy and adding another Combat Power.

This would make each squad-mate more unique in how they are used in combat, and I think it would be cool if something like this is done.

Also, I'd like to see every squad-mate at least carry a sidearm with there other weapons, so that maybe a pistol is at least visible. Tali has a knife and doesn't use it combat so why not have them all carry a pistol even if they don't use it in combat either?

Edit: Forgot Mordin... <_<

Modifié par Praetor Shepard, 25 décembre 2010 - 07:41 .

[lazuli]

Praetor Shepard wrote...

[*]Garrus - Assassination, 1S1K with a Sniper Rifle, just like the ME Talent, need more Combat Powers.[*]Grunt - Carnage, fires like the talent in ME for Shotguns, he really doesn't need much to be more effective.

[*]

I'm all for more powers and more interesting combat, but implementing these powers "just like the ME Talent" would be a recipe for disaster.  They would just hit walls again.  Thankfully the developers are aware of how unreliable squadmate projectiles were in the first ME, which is why Grunt's Concussive Shot hits instantly no matter his position on the battlefield, for example.

Modifié par lazuli, 25 décembre 2010 - 04:48 .

[Praetor Knight]

lazuli wrote...

I'm all for more powers and more interesting combat, but implementing these powers "just like the ME Talent" would be a recipe for disaster.  They would just hit walls again.  Thankfully the developers are aware of how unreliable squadmate projectiles were in the first ME, which is why Grunt's Concussive Shot hits instantly no matter his position on the battlefield, for example.

I should have described it better, I pictured that but did not give a good description. Thanks


And related to the bullet points you can press the toggle for "BB Code" (which will grey out the other buttons in the bar) and then edit out this symbol [ * ]

[Rapamaha]

I liked how Bioware made Kasumi as a squadmate, she has 2 unique abilitys that fit the character and even the passive bonus skill is based on one of her special ability, I would like to see Kasumi like squadmates in ME3 where they truly are UNIQUE

[Spartas Husky]

Rapamaha wrote...

 I would like to see Kasumi like squadmates in ME3 where they truly are UNIQUE

that si one of the things that bug me... when you make them unique you actually make them less useful. If you pit kasumi against her closest relative an infiltrator she would lose hands down.

Squadmates if not identical to a shep class they should at least have as many skills... most of which should be the same as the shep similar class, and yes a few that makes the character unique. But not everything to be a mish and mash, because that is what caused me to actually envy my squadmates, and crave for a custom class... "option".

Why can't I have AR and still have overload from the beginning like garrus?

why can't I have a barrier of sorts and still use an AR like legion?

why can't i use smg and still use snipers by default like thane?

things like that. I understand they need to be unique, but for me theyr are like eye candy I wish I could have... or be like... bad analogy I admit but I think you get my point.

[Sir Ulrich Von Lichenstien]

With regard your last questions.



1st: Because Garrus is a Turian Agent

2nd: Because Legion err... is a Geth

3rd: Because... wait a minute, you can... Infiltrator (even tho Thane is a biotic infiltrator rather than tech... so erm... yeah )



The thing is, sure you can't be exactly like them from the start of the game, but that is because you weren't trained in such a fashion as they were.



The way I see it, it makes more sense the way it is than what you are proposing because basically your saying you want to shape what they trained in. The only person we should truly be shaping to the degree you are talking of is Shepard. The squadmates as they stand can still have some variance (though I'll agree at this present moment not too much) and yet be who they are. Rather than just 'Infiltrator #1' or 'Infiltrator #2'.



I know I said this earlier, but I feel that it needs to be pointed out again, if squadmates had same skill allowances as Shep then that to some extent destroys Shep as being 'The Hero' the person who excels beyond any of their peers and squadmates.



To some extent the 'custom' class you crave for is kind of there already with the wide choice we have. Going on our current system, at 30 you have a max of 51 points to spend over a possible 7 branches. Which means only able to max 5, now just those 5 alone allows for a varied set of permutations and then if you account for all the permutations available from not mixing everything, the possibilities are even more varied. Not forgetting one of those branches being a 'bonus' power from a current selection of 12 powers. When you look at the squadmates they are still pretty much close to some of the classes as you've noted. It's just that unlike shepard, they've done some of their 'schooling' already in areas that are open to Shepard throughout the game (either from gaining one of their bonus abilities or from weapon training).



Hehe, for some reason after reading your last sentence I got a song from 'The Jungle Book' in of my head now...

Take it away King Louie



Case in point with what I said earlier, taking your first sentence. Kasumi vs Shep Infiltrator, sure, Kasumi going to get her ass whooped. Now if you merged Kasumi with Garrus however. Then the combination might have a chance because as I said in my previous post, Kasumi is the engineer side of infiltrator, Garrus the Soldier side of infiltrator (Kasumi has eng bonus power, Garrus has soldier style bonus power). Shepard Infiltrator is the epitomy of the Soldier/Engineer hybrid. Hope that makes sense

[lazuli]

Spartas Husky wrote...

that si one of the things that bug me... when you make them unique you actually make them less useful. If you pit kasumi against her closest relative an infiltrator she would lose hands down.

If you factor in the x2 damage Shadow Strike deals against defenses, Kasumi has the potential to kill any squadmate in one hit, and she's invincible for the duration of the attack (unless she glitches out).  But that's neither here nor there.

I don't know that I want each squadmate to have a power that Shepard can't access.  I think I'd prefer a greater amount and variety of base powers.  I'm looking forward to seeing how ME3 addresses power diversity, as loyalty missions for unlocking bonus powers doesn't seem like it will make a comeback.  To reflect, the way in which bonus powers are gained is different for each game in the series so far:

Mass Effect 1: Repeatedly use a core power to unlock it for future characters on your account.
Mass Effect 2: Gain a squadmate's loyalty to unlock a bonus power for any characters on your account.

[Zahe]

I strongly disagree that the squadmates should be restricted to playable classes. The uniqueness and flexibility gets shafted for no good reason. Just no.

Why can't I have AR and still have overload from the beginning like garrus?



why can't I have a barrier of sorts and still use an AR like legion?



why can't i use smg and still use snipers by default like thane?

You get the class defining abilities and shorter cooldowns instead. It more then evens out.

[Spartas Husky]

Sir Ulrich Von Lichenstien wrote...

Case in point with what I said earlier, taking your first sentence. Kasumi vs Shep Infiltrator, sure, Kasumi going to get her ass whooped. Now if you merged Kasumi with Garrus however. Then the combination might have a chance because as I said in my previous post, Kasumi is the engineer side of infiltrator, Garrus the Soldier side of infiltrator (Kasumi has eng bonus power, Garrus has soldier style bonus power). Shepard Infiltrator is the epitomy of the Soldier/Engineer hybrid. Hope that makes sense

No i Agree. but there you said what bugs me. I dont want a squadmate to be the "x " side of vanguard, or X side of infiltrator... I want themt o be an infiltrator, PLUS.

Sheperd will be unique in the way we shape him, but I want garrus to have what ever infiltrator has,  cloaking amongst other things, PLUS whatever he gathered during his own lifetime. That extra "skill set" is already there, basically as their passive skill that defines each one.

I guess I have failed to get my message across. I do not want them to be a direct copy of sheperd in any class, no. But I do want themt o share at least half of their skills with sheperd.

For example. Garrus should not just be a "combat" side of the infiltrator... where is his tech side? overload doesn't cut it.

Example I guess:
Infiltrator:
Cloak
incinirate
Overload(I add this because I think ammo powers should be universal)


So basically what I been trying to say is that every single infiltrator, SHOULD have those 3. Now on top of those 4 add w/e makes each one unique. garrus concentrated more on combat, so he will start to mix in a soldier skill like concussive shot, but he is not a soldier enough to have fortification... or immunity.

Now with Kasumi.... never been a fan of her tactical cloak... if only because I can't do the same lol.

But basically she should have those 3 simple skills. Now if she has been more in the infiltrator side, she wont be like garrus. She will have something else, like the flashabang, different passive bonuses Her evolve powers might differe from others.

In other words, I dont want squadmates to be any less than Sheperd. While I dont want themt o be, and I repeat, DONT, want them to be IDENTICAL, they should however share a great deal of abilities. Nevertheless while the abilities might differ according to each characters lifes, garrus will have more dmg rather than area for example. I am one to believe not all Overloads should be the same, while they should share the basic LV1 of dmg and area, garrus is more combat oriented so his evolution (shouds...pokemon like lol) choices should not be anything like Kasumis evolution choices. garrus might deal more dmg against engineers, while kasumi might deal more dmg against synthetics.

Now AI since is more specific would be up for grabs, you could play around with it, garrus wouldn't get it since he is more combat oriented by kasumi might.

So yeah I guess  what I mean is; have a basic set of skills shared across all classes similar to it, but unlike sheperd what makes characters unique is that they will start to mix a bit more of one side of their class than the other.

A quick example.

Thane .......he is one of the one I hate the most coz sweet got I want to be like him but I also want him to have more. He is a mix of... infiltrator, and adept.

If so he should share many skills with both making him as deadly as his life has forced him to be.
Since he is one of those in the weird dark areas of mixing classes. He should share:

-Since he is an infiltrator a cloak of some sort
-Simple Overload (but since he is mostly concentrated in assasinations his overload wont compare in efficiency to those likw kasumia or garrus, nevertheless IT IS THERE just in case.
-Simple Incinirate.... he has warp, dont matter, doesn't take a lot of skill to point his omni tool at someone to make him catch fire, while again, his tech power will be severely weakneded since that is not his strong point nor his taste also.
-AI he is not that a geek so he wouldn't get it.

Now since he also shares the adept side:
-He should have a barrier
-He should have throw/pull(like I said they should both be the same power but u only need a quick RB+ right dpad or RB left d pad to launch each) Like learning to use your hand, if you know how toe xtend your hand you also know how to retract it... no rocket science there. Another bad analogy, you dont know just how to open a door... you also know how to close it.
-And of course he should also have warp.

Now in the end Thane is of course an assassin, and his pasive will reflect bonuses for his wpns and biotics. Now like ME1, you add all of those previous skills... and then bioware comes up with a couple of more to make thane even more unique than his weird infiltrator adpet mix.


ANyways Like mentioned before, all class and I guess I am making the word "class" confusing, what I mean is, all combat related classes need to share a set of skills, all biotics, need to share another set, and all tech need their own. A combination of all three will yield 6 available classes, we all know, plus whatever is added to each character to make them unique, So in the end you have 6 classes, plus whatever class each individual squadmate goes for. While shep is limited to the 6. Squadmates will be in those dark areas in between soldier and vanguard, or between adept and sentinel. At the same time not a single squadmate will have less power than shep, or be less effective in them.

So again no I dont want themt o be a copy paste of sentinel shep for miranda... but she should share basic powers of the sentinel shep has, and in the end have no less powers than shep.

Zahe wrote...

I strongly disagree that the squadmates
should be restricted to playable classes. The uniqueness and flexibility
gets shafted for no good reason. Just no.

Why can't I have AR and still have overload from the beginning like garrus?

why can't I have a barrier of sorts and still use an AR like legion?

why can't i use smg and still use snipers by default like thane?

You get the class defining abilities and shorter cooldowns instead. It more then evens out.

No no maybe I am
not getting across. I dont mean squadmates should be indentical to a
shep with th smae class. But should share at least half of the skills.
This would mean biowarewould have to get rid of universal cooldowns and
actually earnt heir pay for imagining mroe than just 3 measly powers for
a squadmate.

[Googlesaurus]

Spartas Husky wrote...

No i Agree. but there you said what bugs me. I dont want a squadmate to be the "x " side of vanguard, or X side of infiltrator... I want themt o be an infiltrator, PLUS.

Sheperd will be unique in the way we shape him, but I want garrus to have what ever infiltrator has,  cloaking amongst other things, PLUS whatever he gathered during his own lifetime. That extra "skill set" is already there, basically as their passive skill that defines each one.

I guess I have failed to get my message across. I do not want them to be a direct copy of sheperd in any class, no. But I do want themt o share at least half of their skills with sheperd.

For example. Garrus should not just be a "combat" side of the infiltrator... where is his tech side? overload doesn't cut it.

Example I guess:
Infiltrator:
Cloak
incinirate
Overload(I add this because I think ammo powers should be universal)


So basically what I been trying to say is that every single infiltrator, SHOULD have those 3. Now on top of those 4 add w/e makes each one unique. garrus concentrated more on combat, so he will start to mix in a soldier skill like concussive shot, but he is not a soldier enough to have fortification... or immunity.

I still don't see why people consider Garrus an Infiltrator. Broadly speaking, he's a tactical Soldier with limited tech abilities. He's not good at being sneaky. 

Spartas Husky wrote...

-Since he is an infiltrator a cloak of some sort
-Simple Overload (but since he is mostly concentrated in assasinations his overload wont compare in efficiency to those likw kasumia or garrus, nevertheless IT IS THERE just in case.
-Simple Incinirate.... he has warp, dont matter, doesn't take a lot of skill to point his omni tool at someone to make him catch fire, while again, his tech power will be severely weakneded since that is not his strong point nor his taste also.
-AI he is not that a geek so he wouldn't get it.

Now since he also shares the adept side:
-He should have a barrier
-He should have throw/pull(like I said they should both be the same power but u only need a quick RB+ right dpad or RB left d pad to launch each) Like learning to use your hand, if you know how toe xtend your hand you also know how to retract it... no rocket science there. Another bad analogy, you dont know just how to open a door... you also know how to close it.
-And of course he should also have warp.

Now in the end Thane is of course an assassin, and his pasive will reflect bonuses for his wpns and biotics. Now like ME1, you add all of those previous skills... and then bioware comes up with a couple of more to make thane even more unique than his weird infiltrator adpet mix.

See, there's the problem. Thane is now unique and completely overpowered (plus when did he ever use an omnitool in combat?). If he still possesses sniper rifles, it's even more lopsided in his favor.

Why are you insistent on talking about squadmates sharing powers with Shepard? They already do. More powers and branches of powers would be great, but that's relatively easy to add on.  

Modifié par Googlesaurus, 26 décembre 2010 - 02:40 .

[Spartas Husky]

....he is overpowered???? I find my squadmates to be a burden without protections, ammo powers, and more than simply 2 skills to be used at the time..... If I have 8 powers, minus 1 from first aidsquadmates should have 8 as well minus their own first aid.

I duno I hate my squadmates having just 3 powers.....

I am insistent, because having 2 powers.... in comparison to a Sheperd seems ackward..... I am not talking about their weapons that much but their powers. He is overpowered because he has throw and warp?????????

I guess to each his own mind but I dont understand how 2 is a bigger number tha 6....

Modifié par Spartas Husky, 26 décembre 2010 - 02:42 .

[Knoll Argonar]

No offense, but: Thank god you're not combat designers for ME3.

[Googlesaurus]

Spartas Husky wrote...

....he is overpowered???? I find my squadmates to be a burden without protections, ammo powers, and more than simply 2 skills to be used at the time..... If I have 8 powers, minus 1 from first aidsquadmates should have 8 as well minus their own first aid.

If you want squadmates to have more powers while being different from Shepard, you need to invent new powers instead of recycling old ones. Your description of Thane is a dude who can strip any defense (with split cooldowns he'll be able to stack combos on command) plus TC plus sniper rifles plus an additional defense boost plus two forms of CC. Considering that he must obey Shep's orders in battle, such a combination of powers will break the game. 

Spartas Husky wrote...

I duno I hate my squadmates having just 3 powers.....

I am insistent, because having 2 powers.... in comparison to a Sheperd seems ackward..... I am not talking about their weapons that much but their powers. He is overpowered because he has throw and warp?????????

I guess to each his own mind but I dont understand how 2 is a bigger number tha 6....

Then bring back powers from ME1 in a new form or invent new powers. Stacking them from a limited pool will just homogenize the squadmates. 

[Spartas Husky]

What we currently have... is to have 2 powers...

If I had to choose between 2 measly powers or add others ones... I choose add others ones.

Is thane unique because he has throw and warp?

I rather recycle other ones and just give him powers.

Now how exactly would it break the game. At the same time every enemy would have access to the same vast amount of powers.

How many enemies have you met that dont have just overly pumped hp bars and instead have as many powers as you do?

How many enemies try to warp you? or send a biotic throw at you?

I am not saying making squadmates godlike, but every single individual in the game to be as good as sheperd, not just a little tiny branch of it with 2 powers.

Now frmo what you 've said you rather have a suqadmate with 2 powers than have him have more like shep? make new powers I dont mind but dont have a squadmate or an enemy have only 2 powers at the most... although some have 3 I think.

Modifié par Spartas Husky, 26 décembre 2010 - 03:55 .