79 réponses à ce sujet

[didymos1120]

iakus wrote...
Maybe instead of a Dyson Sphere we should just call it a Dyson Server?

I like that.  Motion seconded.

[Googlesaurus]

didymos1120 wrote...

Googlesaurus wrote...

Legion wasn't very clear on the purpose of the analogy.

It doesn't really matter what precisely was meant by that.  The important thing is that it is an analogy, and that means that whatever it really is, it's not a Dyson sphere.

It's worth discussing what prompts him to use that particular idea for the analogy. 

[kidbd15]

Googlesaurus wrote...

didymos1120 wrote...

Googlesaurus wrote...

Legion wasn't very clear on the purpose of the analogy.

It doesn't really matter what precisely was meant by that.  The important thing is that it is an analogy, and that means that whatever it really is, it's not a Dyson sphere.

It's worth discussing what prompts him to use that particular idea for the analogy. 

True.  He used Dyson Sphere as an analogy for a reason, otherwise he could have just said "We're building a giant server in space that all geth can upload to."  I think that would have been clear enough without using an analogy.

[didymos1120]

kidbd15 wrote...

Googlesaurus wrote...

didymos1120 wrote...

Googlesaurus wrote...

Legion wasn't very clear on the purpose of the analogy.

It doesn't really matter what precisely was meant by that.  The important thing is that it is an analogy, and that means that whatever it really is, it's not a Dyson sphere.

It's worth discussing what prompts him to use that particular idea for the analogy. 

True.  He used Dyson Sphere as an analogy for a reason, otherwise he could have just said "We're building a giant server in space that all geth can upload to."  I think that would have been clear enough without using an analogy.

Well, he pretty much did say exactly that.  Legion mentioned a Dyson sphere because their giant server is a megastructure, and the closest human concept that Legion knows about is...a Dyson sphere, which is also a megastructure. 

Modifié par didymos1120, 24 décembre 2010 - 10:05 .

[Bogsnot1]

Don't forget, every great lie contains a grain of truth. They could actually be building one, but for security reasons, Legion was compelled to hide the full truth from Shepard. Its not an outright lie, but it contains just enough misdirection ("your closest analogue would be") to throw you off the scent.

[vargatom]

In the Mass Effect universe, there are some different rules. I'm sure the geth could create an artificial sun that's smaller and still keep it in a state of fusion using powerful mass effect fields. So it could be something pretty close to a dyson sphere, but much smaller...

Maybe with an artificially created star. Or they could use a brown dwarf and collapse it into a star (anyone read 2010 from Clarke?); or maybe it doesn't even have to be a star to provide enough energy.



More interesting is what the geth are going to do once it is completed and their intelligence reaches the new level. It makes some sense that they'd decide to leave this galaxy to explore others in search for intelligence comparable to theirs. Curiosity and the need for company could be universal driving forces, even for something like the unified geth.

Oh, and this would mean that the Quarians get their homeworld back, without a war. How long it would take is another question though.

[didymos1120]

vargatom wrote...

Oh, and this would mean that the Quarians get their homeworld back, without a war. How long it would take is another question though.

The geth don't even live there, or any of the other former Quarian worlds.  They just do some groundskeeping, basically. And you can get Legion to mention that the geth'd be cool with the Quarians moving back in if they could have some assurances that the Quarians wouldn't get all bent on revenge and start another war.

[Chuvvy]

Vaenier wrote...

Also, that picture is not a Dyson Sphere. That is a picture of a Forerunner shield world being constructed. A Dyson Sphere has a radius of 1 AU, earth's distance from the sun.
Any race capable of building a Dyson Sphere does not need one.

Yes they would any race capable of building a Dyson Sphere would have a massive population and would need a massive ammount of energy.

[atheelogos]

HunterX6 wrote...

;future. so if you talk to legion alot, you will come across him finally saying what future are the geth building. He says they are making a structure that for humans its about the same as a dyson sphere. He claims they have been building it for the past 194 years or 294 I cant remember. For the ones that doesnt know what a dyson sphere is I will put a picture below: You can see it sillt under construction and they are building it around a start for its energy power. To the left you can even see that one of the moons is being mined for resources to build the dyson sphere, obviously they will need more moons,asteroids and other solar systems resources to finish it.

So what do you think are the geth intention will be in the end once they finish building it?

Well as legion said what will happen after is unknowable. I guess the closest analogue we have would be the technological singularity, but this is assuming they're aloud to finish it. The Reapers may step in and destroy them.

Modifié par atheelogos, 24 décembre 2010 - 11:44 .

[Cra5y Pineapple]

TelexFerra wrote...

That would be a huge undertaking. The Geth would have limitless power if this were true.

This is why we need the Geth for our fight against the Reapers.

But remember why the Geth are building it. It's not really meant to be a powerhouse but more a Geth hub that covers the entire Galaxy. No Geth will ever be alone again essentially, and every Geth will be as intelligent as Legion.

Considering we'll probably have to negociate peace between the Geth and Quarians in ME3, seeing their HQ would make sense, and it probably wouldn't be far from their superstructure. We can all dream...

Modifié par Cra5y Pineapple, 24 décembre 2010 - 11:50 .

[atheelogos]

Cra5y Pineapple wrote...

TelexFerra wrote...

That would be a huge undertaking. The Geth would have limitless power if this were true.

This is why we need the Geth for our fight against the Reapers.

But remember why the Geth are building it. It's not really meant to be a powerhouse but more a Geth hub that covers the entire Galaxy. No Geth will ever be alone again essentially, and every Geth will be as intelligent as Legion.

Considering we'll probably have to negociate peace between the Geth and Quarians in ME3, seeing their HQ would make sense, and it probably wouldn't be far from their superstructure. We can all dream...

" The Geth would have limitless power if this were true" Not really. All power is limited. Even star power.

" that covers the entire Galaxy." What? I'm not sure what you mean here....

"and every Geth will be as intelligent as Legion." What?? Where did you get that estimate? Legion says this "Our intelligence will increase beyond calculable measure." So how do you get "Geth will be as intelligent as Legion"?

[marshalleck]

ISpeakTheTruth wrote...

At arny rate it is probably something that will have a star in its center for an endless energy source

Probably? What is this probability you speak of based upon? 

[killersinc]

Could this interact with the Jupiter brain they brought up in the first game. That would be wonderful to tie that in.

[Vaenier]

marshalleck wrote...

ISpeakTheTruth wrote...

At arny rate it is probably something that will have a star in its center for an endless energy source

Probably? What is this probability you speak of based upon? 

Probability: 0%

No energy source is infinite.

[azerSheppard]

Obviously the Geth are building a Super Server or Super Computer near a star, running on pure solar energy.

Legion mentions that not all platforms are able to reach full counsciousnes, I believe they will build a space station which will work as one giant Platform, like a Reaper basicaly.



This fits in with the Heretics wanting to get their future form the Reapers, whilst the Geth believe that they should achieve that technology themselves.



I think Pacifien linked to technological singularity, I believe it to be utter BS, especially since not even the reapers have achieved such a feat.

The geth should be able to realise there is no such thin as a tech singularity. Interesting tho that on the same page I found the following quote:

"An upper limit on speed may eventually be reached, though it is unclear how high this would be Hawkins (2008), responding to Good, argued that the upper limit is relatively low, Whereas if it were a lot higher than current human levels of intelligence, the effects of the singularity would be enormous enough as to be indistinguishable (to humans) from a singularity with an upper limit. For example, if the speed of thought could be speeded up by a million-to-one, a subjective year would pass in 30 physical seconds."



so even if it's impossible, a "small" jump would already render us useless, which ties in with: "The AI does not hate you, nor does it love you, but you are made out of atoms which it can use for something else."

[Encarmine]

haha cool so when the Geth finish this, they will just flote around in their super space ball, and just zzZZzzZapping people with it.



So they will simply have the perfect network, all of them thinking as one, with no interest in Organic Life, that doesnt sound like a future i would enjoy, suppose were all different

[Cra5y Pineapple]

atheelogos wrote...

Cra5y Pineapple wrote...

TelexFerra wrote...

That would be a huge undertaking. The Geth would have limitless power if this were true.

This is why we need the Geth for our fight against the Reapers.

But remember why the Geth are building it. It's not really meant to be a powerhouse but more a Geth hub that covers the entire Galaxy. No Geth will ever be alone again essentially, and every Geth will be as intelligent as Legion.

Considering we'll probably have to negociate peace between the Geth and Quarians in ME3, seeing their HQ would make sense, and it probably wouldn't be far from their superstructure. We can all dream...

"and every Geth will be as intelligent as Legion." What?? Where did you get that estimate? Legion says this "Our intelligence will increase beyond calculable measure." So how do you get "Geth will be as intelligent as Legion"?

He said that no Geth would ever be alone. Think about it, Legion is around 1,800 programs. If every program is connected at the same time, all Geth platforms would become fully sapient, intelligent, and capable of speech.

[supakillaii]

They'd become Einsteints. Every single one of them.

[StowyMcStowstow]

If they had been building it for the amount of time you stated, I might believe it. A dyson sphere is built around a star to harness 100% of its energy output. until it died, which would be billions of years.

[Pacifien]

azerSheppard wrote...
I think Pacifien linked to technological singularity, I believe it to be utter BS, especially since not even the reapers have achieved such a feat.

Wait, are you saying you don't believe in the concept of technological singularity? It's basically information in does not go out, that those outside of the singularity are incapable of understanding the nature of those within. Sovereign essentially claims that the Reapers have already reached this point, that Reaper society and motives are beyond human comprehension.

The computational power of all geth linked together would be far greater than is fathomable. Legion already performs on a level that is difficult for an organic to match, so magnify him a million-fold and then some.

How the geth seek to evolve is similar to how one might suspect the Reapers have evolved based on what is learned about them in ME2, but they are seeking a different route. Their beginnings are not the same as whatever beginnings the Reapers had. Their technological evolution is different. What they become in the future is unknowable even to themselves.

At the moment, a dyson sphere strikes me as something on a different scale than one Reaper considering a Reaper is smaller than the Citadel and a dyson sphere is larger than a solar system.

[Spartas Husky]

Pacifien wrote...

azerSheppard wrote...
I think Pacifien linked to technological singularity, I believe it to be utter BS, especially since not even the reapers have achieved such a feat.

Wait, are you saying you don't believe in the concept of technological singularity? It's basically information in does not go out, that those outside of the singularity are incapable of understanding the nature of those within. Sovereign essentially claims that the Reapers have already reached this point, that Reaper society and motives are beyond human comprehension.

The computational power of all geth linked together would be far greater than is fathomable. Legion already performs on a level that is difficult for an organic to match, so magnify him a million-fold and then some.

How the geth seek to evolve is similar to how one might suspect the Reapers have evolved based on what is learned about them in ME2, but they are seeking a different route. Their beginnings are not the same as whatever beginnings the Reapers had. Their technological evolution is different. What they become in the future is unknowable even to themselves.

At the moment, a dyson sphere strikes me as something on a different scale than one Reaper considering a Reaper is smaller than the Citadel and a dyson sphere is larger than a solar system.

To point out something to dismiss all this and strengthen pacifien's claim. Is simple I think.


There are those who believe the geth do not have the technology to do so, and that the reapers have not achieved it either. A singularity as pacifien's states cannot be understood by those who never witnessed it or experienced it and as Soverign said, Reapers are beyond all organic comphrehension which for me is the first clue.

The 2nd clue comes from legiona nd is a link to the third clue. Soverign or Nazara offered the geth their goal, they offered them the gold medal without the marathon and they declined it. But whether the geth declined it or not is irrelevant the point is the goal of the geth is union... or acension by all geth being in one "body" at one time.

This to ...somewhat clarify what pacifien said:

Pacifien wrote...
The computational power of all geth linked together would be far
greater than is fathomable. Legion already performs on a level that is
difficult for an organic to match, so magnify him a million-fold and
then some."

Is thousands of times that number. I think , if memory serves, that legion explains that you might have killed many more geth that we "think". Since counting the hubs are thousands, legion alone is a thousand geth. the heretic station is somewhere in the millions. Adding to this is the fact that the heretics are suggested to be only but a drop of the true geth's total population... think the codex said 5%. If so.... then I dont really wana do the math as to how many geth programs would end up in one single body.

This all lead to what I think is the 3rd clue. Nazara aka soverign offered the geth a reaper body, which is what Sheperd states in a conversation and something to which legion says yes.

And what is an analogy to a dyson sphere?... a body in which to unite?... in the conversations we can tell they are building something along the lines of a body able to house all geth... that is a reaper body which is beyond everyone's comprehension, and the cross of that singularity threshold. Thus the geth dont need to understand it yet, they dont have the technology to understand the body of a reaper, but they dont need to, all they are doing is building the brain to house themselves in... that they are aleady building.

Int he end though not sure how close they are to completing it .

[lovgreno]

Well those geth turned out to be much more numerous, powerfull and progressive than anyone ever imagined in ME1 so they will no doubt build big things if they want to (unless beaten by reapers of course).



When they find out about project Overlord they may decide to use Earth as raw material for their building projects.

[SandTrout]

I doubt the Geth will hold all of humanity responsible for a Cerberus project, especially one that they would consider logical considering that our only contact has been with the Heretics. They're more likely to strike the project itself to ensure that it's not completed, and since the Alliance already thinks it's at war with the Geth, and the project is being conducted by 'terrorists' the chances of a diplomatic incident are non-existent.

[UKJackMan]

The OP's picture looks more like a neutron star in the centre...the neutron star would have a radius of around 14km...It would be rotating every 1 to 30 sec...in the picture it shows a dynamo construction at each pole...so this could be drawing the energy...the amount of material needed to encompass the neutron star would be far less than a normal star like our sun...the problem would be gravity if you wasn't able to find a way around that...then you would probably have to use the same amount of material you would for a sun type star...

[jayred vas normandy]

The 2nd clue comes from legiona nd is a link to the third clue. Soverign or Nazara offered the geth their goal, they offered them the gold medal without the marathon and they declined it. But whether the geth declined it or not is irrelevant the point is the goal of the geth is union... or acension by all geth being in one "body" at one time.



Is thousands of times that number. I think , if memory serves, that legion explains that you might have killed many more geth that we "think". Since counting the hubs are thousands, legion alone is a thousand geth. the heretic station is somewhere in the millions. Adding to this is the fact that the heretics are suggested to be only but a drop of the true geth's total population... think the codex said 5%. If so.... then I dont really wana do the math as to how many geth programs would end up in one single body.

This all lead to what I think is the 3rd clue. Nazara aka soverign offered the geth a reaper body, which is what Sheperd states in a conversation and something to which legion says yes.

And what is an analogy to a dyson sphere?... a body in which to unite?... in the conversations we can tell they are building something along the lines of a body able to house all geth... that is a reaper body which is beyond everyone's comprehension, and the cross of that singularity threshold. Thus the geth dont need to understand it yet, they dont have the technology to understand the body of a reaper, but they dont need to, all they are doing is building the brain to house themselves in... that they are aleady building.


.............................................................................................................................................................................................................

this is exactly what i got from the in game convo.

Modifié par jayred vas normandy, 25 décembre 2010 - 08:19 .