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[Googlesaurus]

Brenon Holmes wrote...

bcooper56 wrote...

Is ps3 really using me3 engine?

Sort of... but not really. The main problem is that it's a bit muddy... both ME2PS3 and ME3 have been developing in parallel and sharing technology where appropriate.

It's probably more accurate to say that they're mostly based on the same technology. That said, on ME3 we'd be silly to not be taking advantage of all the awesome stuff that the PS3 guys did for ME2. 

Cool. 

[SalsaDMA]

ziggurcat wrote...

Lumikki wrote...

ziggurcat wrote...

marshalleck wrote...
lol, John Carmack is neither lazy nor terrible, he's a 3D game guru. If he says developing for PS3 is a pain in the ass, it probably is. 

except it isn't.  

Are you developing 3D games for PS3?

As general comment:
Sometimes hardware can limit stuff as seeing all the possibilities.

after a little more than 4 years into the PS3's development cycle (more, if you count the time devs would have had access/knowledge of the PS3's architecture prior to its release), the "it's too hard/a pain in the ass to program for the PS3" argument does nothing but demonstrate one's laziness.

you know, as a general comment.

Let's take your logic and use it on a different extreme example to show you a flaw with it.

Let's say, that to write a program that writes "Hello world" on the screen, you would need to write a novels worth of code that depended enirely on what you writing on where on the sceen you wanted to outut it, to do this task. This would, by most people, be considered as being a "Pain in the azz" to code in this way. Fast forward 4 years, and you would still need to write an entire novel based on the parameters of location and text and whatnot. It would still be "A pain in the azz", regardless of wether o not time that the system you write this kind of excessive code for is substantial in how long it have existed.

If writing code for a specific platform is annoying to do so, it doesn't become less annoying just because time passes. To this day I will claim it's a "painin the azz", for example, to write assembler code, despite it having existed as a language for ages. Yet for some hardware platforms/solutions this is exactly what you ned to do. Doesn't make it less annoying.

So as you see by this detour of an xample, just because something have existed for a while, it doesn't mean it becomes less annoying to write code for it.

[Silver]

@SalsaDMA

good one, though I doubt many of the people in this very forum know what Assembler even is.

Maybe some of the older folks in their late twenties, but everyone below these age parameters probably has a question mark floating above their head right now

[Greybox_Inception]

dude, mass effect 2 makes me want to buy a PS3... plus there's other titles on the PS3 i want to check out.

[KenLyns]

Phaedon wrote...
I just played the demo to see for myself, I have to say, I'll never trust the BSN again. Definitely looks sharper.

Based on the screenshots, the PS3 version appears to have higher res textures and less aggressive shadowing - not necessarily better or worse as the PC/X360 version sometimes shows grainy shadows on faces. I wouldn't be surprised if ME3 on all platforms will look similar to ME2 PS3.

[KenLyns]

ziggurcat wrote...
after a little more than 4 years into the PS3's development cycle (more, if you count the time devs would have had access/knowledge of the PS3's architecture prior to its release), the "it's too hard/a pain in the ass to program for the PS3" argument does nothing but demonstrate one's laziness.

you know, as a general comment.

It's easy to shout "laziness". In reality, however, game development projects have schedule- and budget constraints. If a platform is less efficient to develop for, then games will likely end up looking uglier. Both Gabe Newell (Half Life series) and John Carmack have commented on the difficulty of developing for the PS3. Carmack is a tremendously productive programmer, most recently having ported Rage to the iPhone and iPad in record time.

Modifié par KenLyns, 30 décembre 2010 - 04:47 .

[ziggurcat]

SalsaDMA wrote...


Let's take your logic and use it on a different extreme example to show you a flaw with it.

Let's say, that to write a program that writes "Hello world" on the screen, you would need to write a novels worth of code that depended enirely on what you writing on where on the sceen you wanted to outut it, to do this task. This would, by most people, be considered as being a "Pain in the azz" to code in this way. Fast forward 4 years, and you would still need to write an entire novel based on the parameters of location and text and whatnot. It would still be "A pain in the azz", regardless of wether o not time that the system you write this kind of excessive code for is substantial in how long it have existed.

If writing code for a specific platform is annoying to do so, it doesn't become less annoying just because time passes. To this day I will claim it's a "painin the azz", for example, to write assembler code, despite it having existed as a language for ages. Yet for some hardware platforms/solutions this is exactly what you ned to do. Doesn't make it less annoying.

So as you see by this detour of an xample, just because something have existed for a while, it doesn't mean it becomes less annoying to write code for it.

i understand that the PS3 is slightly more complicated to program for, but it should never be used as an excuse to get away with releasing a shoddy product.  

after 4+ years, developers should be familiar enough with the PS3's architecture to be able to properly code for it, despite it being a "pain in the ass."

[ziggurcat]

KenLyns wrote...

ziggurcat wrote...
after a little more than 4 years into the PS3's development cycle (more, if you count the time devs would have had access/knowledge of the PS3's architecture prior to its release), the "it's too hard/a pain in the ass to program for the PS3" argument does nothing but demonstrate one's laziness.

you know, as a general comment.

It's easy to shout "laziness". In reality, however, game development projects have schedule- and budget constraints. If a platform is less efficient to develop for, then games will likely end up looking uglier. Both Gabe Newell (Half Life series) and John Carmack have commented on the difficulty of developing for the PS3. Carmack is a tremendously productive programmer, most recently having ported Rage to the iPhone and iPad in record time.

as stated above, it's laziness when it's used as an excuse/justification for releasing a shoddy product.  if the devs were any good at their job, schedules/budget restraints wouldn't be an issue. 

re: gabe newell - what year? because he's virtually converted from his previous PS3 stance.  

[Sir Ulrich Von Lichenstien]

silverhammer08 wrote...

@SalsaDMA

good one, though I doubt many of the people in this very forum know what Assembler even is.

Maybe some of the older folks in their late twenties, but everyone below these age parameters probably has a question mark floating above their head right now

I know this is going off topic, but I have to ask. If you think people in their late twenties are 'old' does that mean people in their mid-thirties (such as myself) are ancient?

Yay! I've always wanted to be an Ancient

*ponders what that means for people older than me*

Oh and... I had to google to find out what you were talking about

[REBEL21]

Brenon Holmes wrote...

bcooper56 wrote...

Is ps3 really using me3 engine?

Sort of... but not really. The main problem is that it's a bit muddy... both ME2PS3 and ME3 have been developing in parallel and sharing technology where appropriate.

It's probably more accurate to say that they're mostly based on the same technology. That said, on ME3 we'd be silly to not be taking advantage of all the awesome stuff that the PS3 guys did for ME2. 

Ah Jesse Houston and Casey Hudson should have elaborated more. I guess PS3 owners will enjoy an inferior ME2 along with a $60 price tag! Yay! <_<

[REBEL21]

Greybox_Inception wrote...

dude, mass effect 2 makes me want to buy a PS3... plus there's other titles on the PS3 i want to check out.

Don't just get it for $20 for 360/PC. Why would you pay $60 for ME2 that is inferior on PS3? Do yourself a favor and get either the 360/PC; the real "definitive versions"

[MajesticJazz]

Brenon Holmes wrote...

That said, on ME3 we'd be silly to not be taking advantage of all the awesome stuff that the PS3 guys did for ME2. 

Like what?

[eldav]

Isnt PS3 having problem with unreal engine based games, i remember that there was some buzz about it when PS3 launched and that is the reason for a tweaked engine in ps3 version.

[KenLyns]

Sir Ulrich Von Lichenstien wrote...
I know this is going off topic, but I have to ask. If you think people in their late twenties are 'old' does that mean people in their mid-thirties (such as myself) are ancient?

Yay! I've always wanted to be an Ancient

"Seasoned, that's a horrible thing to say to a man."

Modifié par KenLyns, 31 décembre 2010 - 04:52 .

[SSV Enterprise]

Brenon Holmes wrote...

Sort of... but not really. The main problem is that it's a bit muddy... both ME2PS3 and ME3 have been developing in parallel and sharing technology where appropriate.

It's probably more accurate to say that they're mostly based on the same technology. That said, on ME3 we'd be silly to not be taking advantage of all the awesome stuff that the PS3 guys did for ME2. 

Ah, that's what I figured.  ME2 PS3 takes advantage of what advances the ME3 team has done, but it's not like this is how ME3 will look at all.  So the promotions have been a bit misleading by saying it uses the ME3 engine, but that's simpler, less confusing, and more appealing for promotional purposes, I guess.

[DylanZeppelin]

I just want to say that as far as I know the MEs have always used the Unreal 3, a modified Unreal 3, it appears that ME2ps3 is using what they call Unreal 3.5, which will be used on ME3, but the game (ME3) will definitely look better than ME2 ps3 on all platforms when released. First the 3.5 engine on the ps3 will only modify ME2's graphics (textures, lighting etc), but they are the same files in the end, where as in ME3 they will be new and as you know, you can get better graphics using the same engine and same hardware with time.

[REBEL21]

MajesticJazz wrote...

Brenon Holmes wrote...

That said, on ME3 we'd be silly to not be taking advantage of all the awesome stuff that the PS3 guys did for ME2. 

Like what?

just PR talk. I mean they want us to cough up 60 dollars <_<

[Burdokva]

Here's something interesting I found last week when tweaking the shader files, it's from the BasePassPixelShader:



// SkyFactor and AmbientColor are constants if we assume SHOW_Lighting to be always set. We make the assumption that on console

// performance is more important than being able to toggle this flag and therefore use special shortcut.

#if XBOX || PS3



Most of these notes in the shader files by the designers are mid-late summer 2009, so I suppose the PS3 version was at least considered then.



Honestly, does a ME3 even exist? It's still UT3.5... my guess is what the PS3 is using is base ME2 modified UT3 engine with new lighting/shadow shaders developed for Mass Effect 3.

[KainrycKarr]

fenix612 wrote...

blwqege yar

I agree.

[vejn]

What is the difference ME2 / ME3 engine ?
Are we expecting the same or improved performance for ME3 ?
I must say ME2 engine (UT 3.5) is really superbly written and optimized
Some people play iy on Athlon xp 2400 (15 years old CPU).
I hope to see the same performance for ME3.

[Code_R]

Brenon Holmes wrote...

bcooper56 wrote...

Is ps3 really using me3 engine?

Sort of... but not really. The main problem is that it's a bit muddy... both ME2PS3 and ME3 have been developing in parallel and sharing technology where appropriate.

It's probably more accurate to say that they're mostly based on the same technology. That said, on ME3 we'd be silly to not be taking advantage of all the awesome stuff that the PS3 guys did for ME2. 

Then maybe all of the marketing hype should have read 

"Mass Effect 2 - finally coming to PS3! Newly optimised for the platform using the ME3 Engine... Well sort of, but not really!!"



?