27 réponses à ce sujet

[InvaderErl]

What the topic says.

I'm playing through ME1 again and he never seems to actually discover this fact, does anyone know if it shows up in a line of dialogue that I'm just missing? 

Modifié par InvaderErl, 24 décembre 2010 - 10:18 .

[HEATFANMAN]

Shepard knows Saren is looking for the conduit, the conduit is the secret entrance to the citadel.

[Mister Mida]

HEATFANMAN wrote...

Shepard knows Saren is looking for the conduit, the conduit is the secret entrance to the citadel.

But you don't know that until you get to talk with Vigil.

[HEATFANMAN]

Yah, thats where he finds out what the conduit is.

[Mister Mida]

I agree it's kind of weird. But I could've sworn I knew the answer back at my very first playthrough.

[Bogsnot1]

What the Conduit is, and the Citadel's purpose. Once he knew those, it was only a logical conclusion that the Citadel would be attacked. A diversion would be needed outside the Citadel to allow Saren and his geth to move about without worry of Council forces being landed on the citadel to stop him.

[InvaderErl]

So the issue I'm having is the Council says that Shepard believes that Saren is going to attack the Citadel BEFORE he meets with Vigil and discovers what the Conduit actually does. Unless I'm wrong, he never actually should have been able to know (or even guess) this at that point in the story.

Modifié par InvaderErl, 24 décembre 2010 - 12:11 .

[philiposophy]

As far as I'm aware, there is no explanation for this one. The journal updates to say that you (ie. Shepard) believe he's going to attack but there's no reason given as to why. It just... happens.

I suppose you could fix it by imagining that you found references to an attack in Saren's base on Virmire. Or something like that.

[Sandbox47]

The Reapers kill stuff. Citadel is a lot of stuff. Shepard is a Spectre. Spectre's work for Council. Council is on Citadel. Put them together and Shepard's knowledge of the Conduit is null and void as she's gonna protect Citadel anyways.

[Elvis_Mazur]

I will have to replay ME1 and pay more attention to this.

[Elvis_Mazur]

Sorry for the necro.

But, I just replayed that part and it IS a major plot mistake.

It is just updated in the journal, after you complete all the main missions, that Saren and Sovereign are going to attack the Citadel. Nothing, before that, is even mentioned.

The Asari councilor says that Shepard believes the attack is going to happen, but, after all their deny against the Reapers existence and Saren's guilt, I find that to be off-character and ridiculous.

[Winterfly]

I find most games to be off the chart and stupid if you really nitpick their plot.

[Bullets McDeath]

Yeah, it is a definite hiccup in the plot. Like how Sovereign blasts off from Eden Prime before you find Nihlus' body, but Saren is still on the planet surface fussing over the Beacon. And then suddenly he's back inside Sovereign.

[AdmiralCheez]

PetrySilva wrote...

Sorry for the necro.
But, I just replayed that part and it IS a major plot mistake.

It is just updated in the journal, after you complete all the main missions, that Saren and Sovereign are going to attack the Citadel. Nothing, before that, is even mentioned.

The Asari councilor says that Shepard believes the attack is going to happen, but, after all their deny against the Reapers existence and Saren's guilt, I find that to be off-character and ridiculous.

ME1 HAD A PLOTHOLE?!  BUT DREW KARPYSHYN IS GOD!! D8

Sorry, can't help but poke fun at the ME1-is-the-Best-Game-Ever-and-ME2-Sucks crowd.  I love both games, but I won't deny that they both had some major flaws.

[Ryzaki]

PetrySilva wrote...

Sorry for the necro.
But, I just replayed that part and it IS a major plot mistake.
It is just updated in the journal, after you complete all the main missions, that Saren and Sovereign are going to attack the Citadel. Nothing, before that, is even mentioned.
The Asari councilor says that Shepard believes the attack is going to happen, but, after all their deny against the Reapers existence and Saren's guilt, I find that to be off-character and ridiculous.

Why exactly? 

Even if Saren isn't attempting to bring back the Reapers there's nothing saying he wouldn't want to take over the Citadel for some other purpose.

The Geth are a serious threat. They know he is allied with them Reaper or no. Now what exactly would Saren be gathering a large geth armor for if not to wage war? 

ME1 has some serious plot holes but the Council fearing he'd attack the Citadel isn't one of them.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 30 janvier 2011 - 08:30 .

[Bullets McDeath]

Ryzaki wrote...

PetrySilva wrote...

Sorry for the necro.
But, I just replayed that part and it IS a major plot mistake.
It is just updated in the journal, after you complete all the main missions, that Saren and Sovereign are going to attack the Citadel. Nothing, before that, is even mentioned.
The Asari councilor says that Shepard believes the attack is going to happen, but, after all their deny against the Reapers existence and Saren's guilt, I find that to be off-character and ridiculous.

Why exactly? 

Even if Saren isn't attempting to bring back the Reapers there's nothing saying he wouldn't want to take over the Citadel for some other purpose.

The Geth are a serious threat. They know he is allied with them Reaper or no. Now what exactly would Saren be gathering a large geth armor for if not to wage war? 

ME1 has some serious plot holes but the Council fearing he'd attack the Citadel isn't one of them.

If that's the case, why didn't they start preparing for Saren's attack as soon as he went rogue? Why is it presented in the story like it is a plot twist if it's a "reasonable assumption" that anyone could make?

[Ryzaki]

outlaworacle wrote...

If that's the case, why didn't they start preparing for Saren's attack as soon as he went rogue? Why is it presented in the story like it is a plot twist if it's a "reasonable assumption" that anyone could make?

It is odd true. Perhaps they first believed in the whole "Saren hates humanity" spiel Anderson was throwing out. So they thought it wasn't *their* problem.

I don't know why its presented as a plot twist exactly. Dramatic effect? 

And how exactly is it an unreasonable assumption? 

Modifié par Ryzaki, 30 janvier 2011 - 09:33 .

[JasonShepard]

It isn't explained in the game, but I just fill it in with the idea that maybe Shepard found some data mentioning it on Virmire. Something that implied that Saren *might* be thinking of attacking the Citadel.



It would be typical for them to pick up on that and ignore EVERYTHING that Shepard had found out about Reapers and Ilos...

[Elvis_Mazur]

Ryzaki wrote...

PetrySilva wrote...

Sorry for the necro.
But, I just replayed that part and it IS a major plot mistake.
It is just updated in the journal, after you complete all the main missions, that Saren and Sovereign are going to attack the Citadel. Nothing, before that, is even mentioned.
The Asari councilor says that Shepard believes the attack is going to happen, but, after all their deny against the Reapers existence and Saren's guilt, I find that to be off-character and ridiculous.

Why exactly? 

Even if Saren isn't attempting to bring back the Reapers there's nothing saying he wouldn't want to take over the Citadel for some other purpose.

The Geth are a serious threat. They know he is allied with them Reaper or no. Now what exactly would Saren be gathering a large geth armor for if not to wage war? 

ME1 has some serious plot holes but the Council fearing he'd attack the Citadel isn't one of them.

It was not stated as the Council's own idea. If I remember correctly, the Asari councilor says: "If Saren is foolish enough to attack the Citadel, as you believe..."

They only decided to defended the Citadel because of Shepard's last report  where he "discovered" Saren's plan to attack the station.
Even worse, they always claim the need of proof. But, at that time, they just decided to believe in Shepard's words.

[Bullets McDeath]

Ryzaki wrote...

outlaworacle wrote...

If that's the case, why didn't they start preparing for Saren's attack as soon as he went rogue? Why is it presented in the story like it is a plot twist if it's a "reasonable assumption" that anyone could make?

It is odd true. Perhaps they first believed in the whole "Saren hates humanity" spiel Anderson was throwing out. So they thought it wasn't *their* problem.

I don't know why its presented as a plot twist exactly. Dramatic effect? 

And how exactly is it an unreasonable assumption? 

I still don't think it adds up. As Petry points out above me, the Council begins preparing to defend the Citadel at Commander Shepard's request. So where did Shepard get the idea? Well... he didn't know, until Ilos. Even leaving that out, there's no moment where Shepard goes "Aha! Now I get it... he's going to attack the Citadel!" As others point out, it just pops up in your journal that way with absolutely nothing in the story to explain it.

It is easily glossed over, but I would still consider it an oversight.

EDIT: And I never said it was an unreasonable assumption. The guy is definitely building an army for something... if you start running the numbers, considering if all had gone to plan Saren would have legions of Geth, Krogan and Rachni at his command, so an attack on the Citadel is one conclusion you would inevitably reach (not necesarrily the only one, though). Nevertheless, there's nothing explicitly in the narrative that points to that being Saren's plan, until  the conversation on Ilos. Yet somehow, offscreen, everyone simultaneously reaches that conclusion with no proof and agrees to take action accordingly.

Modifié par outlaworacle, 30 janvier 2011 - 10:58 .

[Ryzaki]

PetrySilva wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

PetrySilva wrote...

Sorry for the necro.
But, I just replayed that part and it IS a major plot mistake.
It is just updated in the journal, after you complete all the main missions, that Saren and Sovereign are going to attack the Citadel. Nothing, before that, is even mentioned.
The Asari councilor says that Shepard believes the attack is going to happen, but, after all their deny against the Reapers existence and Saren's guilt, I find that to be off-character and ridiculous.

Why exactly? 

Even if Saren isn't attempting to bring back the Reapers there's nothing saying he wouldn't want to take over the Citadel for some other purpose.

The Geth are a serious threat. They know he is allied with them Reaper or no. Now what exactly would Saren be gathering a large geth armor for if not to wage war? 

ME1 has some serious plot holes but the Council fearing he'd attack the Citadel isn't one of them.

It was not stated as the Council's own idea. If I remember correctly, the Asari councilor says: "If Saren is foolish enough to attack the Citadel, as you believe..."

They only decided to defended the Citadel because of Shepard's last report  where he "discovered" Saren's plan to attack the station.
Even worse, they always claim the need of proof. But, at that time, they just decided to believe in Shepard's words.

Alright yeah that is kind of retarded.

Damn Council. <_<

[Obadiah]

Good catch on the plot hole.

[Quintega]

there probably was a point in early dev were either you went to Ilos twice or they linked up with you finding a file in his office. Hell maybe Kirahe figured it out. But it might have been an early dev thing accidentally removed. Could also be the council modifying your words so that they can assume control of the situation. Plus you never really state its your opinion maybe they just assumed

[Jarek_Cousland]

I think its just something thats assumed.



Saren=Evil



The Citadel=Heart of civilization.



Therefore he's gonna attack. Not the best logic but ehh, we were right! ;-P

[greengroove]

Thank god I found this thread on google. I'm doing a second playthrough and just encountered this issue. "Inform the council about Sovereign's plan to attack the citadel". What? Neither Sovereign or Saren mentioned anything about that! Heh, I thought I might be suffering from amnesia or something.